The suicides must stop.

[support-uk-rail]

According to a recent figure published in Rail Professional, over 200 people each year commit suicide on Network Rail's lines, and around 100 people get hit accidently (usually youths playing on line), this totals to over 300 yearly, thus almost 1 per day.

Now, according to other statistics, around 1 in 3 drivers retire or stop driving for over 2 years once they've hit somebody; this is apparently due to the fact that however much it was not the driver's fault, technically, it was the driver that killed the person, and, the graphic nature of a very deformed body, or body parts on the line in which the driver has to stop and witness to confirm.

So, around twice each week, two drivers [average] quit/break for 2 years or more because of suicide's and stupidy. Not just does this cause short-term affects for the rail industry and passengers communiting within a radius, on main lines it effects even more, but this will be on the driver's mind forever.

THIS MUST STOP.

 

[richa2002]

Unfortunately you can't stop this without a considerable amount of expense and making the railway look like a prison. Even then, people always find a way onto the line.

 

[16CSVT2700]

Easy solutions, trains with sniper-rifle toting guys taking out the suicidees before they have a chance

Seriously though, there's gotta be a way somewhere to stop this from happening

 

[richa2002]

Make everyone happy?

 

[16CSVT2700]

Everybody now..

HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!!!
(repeat x500,000)

 

[Juniper Driver]

THIS MUST STOP.


Doubt whether it will.It took me eleven years of driving before I had my first one and it didn't really surprise me in the least.

 

[Metroland]

There's no easy way to stop it.

Japan has tried fitted mirrors in suicide hotspots to deter people. The only thing I can think of is to install direct phones through to the Samaritans at hotspots or blast out some sort of sound to deter people at hotspots - such as a really painful sound so they have no choice but to leave the area or some comedy or amusing song or something. This wouldn't stop the determined going to another location of course.

Japan has the worst suicide rate where 90 people kill themselves a day.

Really politicians should be looking at quality of life rather than pure economic growth when setting policies. A dangerous cocktail of a high pressure life and low self esteem can create problems. And lifestyles in some countries contribute to the problem. Many studies point to quality of life declining, despite increased material wealth.

That said, majority of suicides are near mental hospitals. Mental illness is a very difficult problem to deal with.

As for the trespassers, just idiots who are not the slightest bit aware of the potential danger. The answer to that is education and fining persistent trespassers heavily.

It's just a hazard of the job drivers should try to be prepared for and should be part of the assessment before they get a job.

I never took a movements managers job for the principal reason I did not want to go out to the aftermath.

Incidentally 1/3 of the suicides in the UK are on the GWML out of Paddington in West London and Slough, mainly as a result of abuse in Asian relationships.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=483315

 

[Nym]

Thirsk Station and Northallerton has the numbers for samaritans, and they run through the two quite fast

 

[support-uk-rail]

Juniper Driver, did you have to get out and inspect like someone told me?

 

[Juniper Driver]

Not really.I could see it.I knew the bloke was dead.Perhaps I should not post the gory details on here but there was no doubt he was dead.

I spoke with the signalman about protecting the train but he said I didn't have to go back.I had a four car 455 although I had to do faults and failures as in the process one of the air cocks became dislodged so I couldn't get the brakes off.

 

[support-uk-rail]

How many times has this happened to you?

I read about this guy for SW Trains who's hit somebody 3 times in his first year of driving!

 

[O L Leigh]

I have to dispute some of the stats relating to drivers involved with a "fatal".

While some drivers are shaken up so badly that they decide never to come back, it is very much the minority. As for the average length of time that a driver is off before returning to work, my experience from the three depots that make up the division of the company I am in is that the average length seems to be somewhere around the 4 week mark. Some come back significantly quicker and some are back in the next day. It certainly isn't the case that drivers take an average of 2 years off following a "fatal".

I should also like to point out that it is not the driver that kills them, technically or otherwise. In the case of a suicide they have killed themselves, and have chosen a particular way in which to do so. If they hadn't flung themselves under a train they would just as surely found some other means of killing themselves.

Being involved in a "fatal" is something that was never swept under the carpet at every single stage of my recruitment and training as a driver and was spoken about quite openly. Therefore, we were all left in no doubt that it is a hazard of the job and given plenty of time to think about it and discuss what we would do if such an unfortunate situation ever should arise.

As a driver, you are not required to get down and inspect the line if you've suspect you've just hit someone. The signaller can ask you, but you have the absolute right to refuse. For my own part, having run someone over myself, my default position is to remain in the cab and wait for the cavalry. If they've gone under the front, the chances are good that they will be beyond caring and won't need any assistance, plus I'm not sufficiently curious to find out. Even if the collision had caused an air leak or some other fault on the train that would require attention before it could be moved, I think I'd be inclined to leave it for the relieving driver. The train isn't going anywhere until the Police have carried out their initial investigations and the body has been recovered, so there's no rush.

Incidentally, this was on only my fifth solo turn after having passed out. I was back inside 4 weeks.

one TN

 

[driver9000]

I can only echo one_TNs post. During my driver training fatalities were also openly & frequently spoken about, we even had some willing drivers (including our rules trainer) tell us of their experiences of being involved with this type of incident. Personally I have never been involved in a fatality, but have come very close to a few tresspassers over the last few years - hopefully its a tale I wont have to tell one day......

 

[devon_metro]

Suicides are selfish acts. Of you've got a problem with your life go and sort it out instead of ruining everybody elses! Makes my blood boil!!

 

[support-uk-rail]

Oh right. I feel sorry and respect you guys [referring to the drivers]

 

[richa2002]

Suicides are selfish acts. Of you've got a problem with your life go and sort it out instead of ruining everybody elses! Makes my blood boil!!

It's wrong to have a go at people who are in such a state that they consider taking their own life! Yes it's selfish but you have to respect the fact that they must be having an awful time and the effects on the driver is the last of their worries :roll:.

 

[support-uk-rail]

Last of their worries? I don't think they worry about anything; they are selfish to be killing themselves anyway, but even more so, to put the train driver through it, and even more so, the people that have to pick up the mess!

And, it costs an TOC an average of £60 for every minute a train is late, how much does this cost the companies?

Selfish bastards. They should take their problems elsewhere.
It's a shame the word suicide exists, and suicidals are selfish. End of.

 

[Jord]

It must be a horrible experience for a driver to go through.

I was talking to a GNER driver at Kings Cross back in the summer, i told him i would like to become a train driver etc etc, he did bring up about suicides and was quite open talking about it, he said he has hit two people in his 30 year driving career and says "as i was approaching them, you just think there kids so you don't stop blasting the horn but then as you realise they will not move you just close your eyes and hope, but once you've come to a grinding halt and there is blood all over the windscreen you get in touch with the signaller then you just wait until the trained people arrive to sort it out".

He also said his first fatality he was off for 6 weeks or similar but second was back within the 4 weeks.

But i always wondered is it possible to get used to such a thing, because if you was unlucky and had a few fatality in a short amount of time [being in the wrong place at the wrong time] would you get used to it or will every single time be a horrible experience and needing alot of time off to get sorted.

I have to say i do admire the drivers that go through this terrible experience and return to the railways and the horrible people that do decide to commit suicide on the railways are very selfish and should think about everyone else that will be involved in the clean up operation and they could end the drivers career as i suppose you could never forget hitting somebody.

 

[O L Leigh]

I don't think you can ever get used to running folk down and, to be totally honest, I don't think I'd ever want to get into a situation where that was likely to happen. Imagine just how cold and inhuman you'd have to be not to be upset after just seeing someone dying under the wheels of your train.

Of course, every "fatal" is different and it will affect each individual differently. I count myself fortunate that the "fatal" I had was a clear-cut suicide and played out in such a way that I saw, heard or felt almost nothing of the collision itself. However, if it had happened differently or had not clearly been a suicide I might have found myself more shaken up and taken a longer period of time before coming back to work. There just aren't any rules by which such things happen. As a driver, all you can do is to accept that there is an ever-present risk that you may be involved with a "fatal" and have decided beforehand how you intend to cope with it. I found I very quickly went through the line of thinking that demonstrated to me that I had no part to play in this person's death except by having the misfortune of being the unlucky b*gger in the front of the train that the person flung themselves under. I feel desperately sad for the person and the family, but I feel no guilt.

As for suicides being selfish, I have to say that I take issue with the strength of feeling that has been expressed so far. For someone to be in a place where they can override the natural desire for survival and self-preservation and take their own lives, they must be in a mental state that none of us can fully understand or appreciate. Suicide is selfish in the sense that they probably give not a moment's thought about the affect their deaths will have on their families, friends and those directly involved, but I would imagine that, in their distressed state, they would believe that they have arrived at this course of action as a result of a logical mental process. Mental illness of some sort may play it's part, or the person may be faced with a terrible and unpalatable situation to which death is a more preferrable option.

I expect that choosing to leap under a train rather than taking an overdose in the bath shows some degree of concern for others. At least the people who witness the death, find the body and deal with the remains are strangers and not a member of their family or some other loved one. As such, the family never see the remains nor have to deal with the additional trauma that finding them dead would create. I've even known of suicides carrying their farewell notes in which they apologise to the train driver and members of the emergency services.

As a result of all of this, I refuse to judge or condemn anyone for choosing to commit suicide. I don't feel any anger towards the person who jumped in front of my train or towards the people involved in the situations that lead this person to take their life. We can get all indignant about the impact that such events have, but only those people who have been close to that situation themselves can ever fully understand just why these folk do what they do. In the meantime, I find it helps to take a balanced perspective by at least trying to consider their position.

one TN

 

[richa2002]

A very reasoned respone 'OneTN', I agree...

 

[Tom C]

Very reasoned response TN!!

Although I am not a driver, I have been in the unlucky situation to witness two "jumpers" (the term varies from shop to shop) and as TN says it affects people very differently. The second one was a particularly nasty one which involved a trespass late at night and the driver was very badly affected by what happened and took well over a year to return to duty. The worst part for me was that the family came to the station to lay flowers on the guys birthday every year and in the end I had to move stations simply because the date would bring back memories that I would like to forget.

Thameslink were faultless (as are FCC) with the councelling service and did a home visit to see how I was doing and they were very accommodating when I went back to work although even to this day I have been known to drift off when I have to visit the station in question.

Although as TN rightly said its brought up very frankly there really isn't any training that you can do for a "jumper" mainly because you never know how your mind will react.

 

[O L Leigh]

Floral tributes are very touching, but they can be more bother for rail staff.

There was another "fatal" at about the same time as mine and the family and friends apparently brought flowers to the station in question (I was off at the time so missed the whole thing). Unfortunately, they decided to place them on the station platform where they were in plain sight of the drivers. It didn't take very long before complaints from drivers resulted in the flowers being moved to a location just outside the station and out of view of the line.

Unfortunately, there is a long-lasting memorial site on our lines that is outside the boundary fence but still in plain view. Almost two years on (and in spite of what every driver knows about what really transpired on the night in question) there are still balloons, flowers, notes and soft toys tied onto the boundary fence. Sadly, because they are arranged on the wrong side of the fence we can get nothing done about them.

one TN

 

[Gizmogle]

Suicides are selfish acts. Of you've got a problem with your life go and sort it out instead of ruining everybody elses! Makes my blood boil!!

Suicides cannot be helped.

It's not the person's fault.

However, they really shouldn't be so selfish as to hurt other people as well as themselves.
There are much quieter ways to go, and I never quite understood why someone would want to put others at risk.

Drivers can be traumatised, lose their jobs and even be injured or killed, along with the passengers.

 

[O L Leigh]

I would counter that by going back to my point about not having loved ones directly involved with the death or the discovery and recovery of the body.

Death by any means always results in hurt for the family and friends of the deceased. Imagine how much harder it would be for those loved ones to have to deal with the trauma of discovering the body on top of the grief that would naturally be expected. By jumping under a train, a suicide is sparing their family and friends the additional upset of finding them. I know that I would prefer hearing from the Police if someone close to me had taken their own life and not have to find them for myself.

Sure it's upsetting for the driver and the emergency services and inconvenient for the travelling public, but it's not hard to get over. I have absolutely no connection to the person I ran over, therefore I feel no loss. I had no hand in their death, so I feel no guilt. If I hadn't come into contact with the person and the person's family I wouldn't have had the first idea of their existence or the problems that the person was facing. In short, this person meant nothing to me. Apart from the shock and understandable upset of the actual event itself, I have had no other negative emotions associated with it.

Perhaps I'm too pragmatic (the BUPA counsellor as good as said as much), but I don't want to appear to be belittling the problems that "fatals" can cause for rail staff. Dealing with death and the dead is not what we joined up for, though it is part of the job. What I am trying to do is to get folk not to just have the knee-jerk reaction of "suicides are selfish". It's all a matter of perspective. A jumper doesn't know the driver, and a stranger is a better option for witnessing their demise than a loved one.

one TN

 

[AlexS]

I'd suggest that bearing in mind the general lack of contact most passengers have with the driver anyway, in fact I'd go so far as to say they'd rarely cross their minds, that someone jumping in front of a train certainly wouldn't think anything especially about them, a train is just a fast moving several hundred tonne box to most people with opening doors. This makes it a rather efficient killing machine as countless members of the animal kingdom from flies to moose find out every single day.

 

[devon_metro]

Suicides cannot be helped.

It's not the person's fault.

Rubbish!

They decided to jump!

Anyhow, whatever the arguement, I have no sympathy. There are many ways that people can sort out their life if they want.

 

[kestrel]

Being a driver on the a route with the highest rate of fatalities in the country, i'm always a bit wary when i see some bugger come close to the platform edge!

Many of my fellow drivers at our place have had a fatality some have had as many as 3!, most of them are back at work within a week or 2, one was back the next day to drive over the route and back solo within a week.

As has been said it is something drivers talk about openly with eachother and is unfortunatly 'part of the job'

I myself have had at least 6 near misses and very close one, which was not a suicide but could have been a very sad accident (little girl standing on the white platform edge line with me approaching at 100).

You will never stop people trying to commit suicide its always going to happen and has been since man(or woman) was born.
If you've ever known someone suffering from depression then you'll know just how low and desperate some people can get!
I have a friend who several times now has tried to end it all over what to us is a simple problem or issue, but to them is a very very major one!

But what you can do is educate those that trespass and later end up a fatality, one problem we have now is the large influx of eastern european people coming over here and walking across the railway line as if its a quiet road!, we now have an ongoing project to try and educate these people to the dangers and introduce better signage as to the dangers of running across the tracks to get to the other platform.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Rubbish!

They decided to jump!

Anyhow, whatever the arguement, I have no sympathy. There are many ways that people can sort out their life if they want.

I'd imagine that suicide is generally pretty much a last resort 'option'. It's most likely that they feel that they've exhausted all the other options.

 

[me123]

We need to look at mental illness here, though. The majority of suicides are commited by people who want to die becuase of a mental condition. If they've made that decision, can you really expect them to look at how it affects other people? I think not. In that way it is selfish, but only because their condition is of the selfish nature if you know what I mean.

The only way to stop the suicides is to lose the mental health stigma and encourage treatment before it's too late. And, as has been pointed out, many people go over the edge anyway and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[Up Carriage Liner]

Last of their worries? I don't think they worry about anything; they are selfish to be killing themselves anyway, but even more so, to put the train driver through it, and even more so, the people that have to pick up the mess!

And, it costs an TOC an average of £60 for every minute a train is late, how much does this cost the companies?

Selfish bastards. They should take their problems elsewhere.
It's a shame the word suicide exists, and suicidals are selfish. End of.

This posting, and the one from Liam, are unhelpful and upsetting. Other contributors, such as one_TN, have made excellent and considered contributions.

When my mother decided to end her life in May 1995 it was all the more upsetting because she calmly laid down in front of a freight train on the WCML. Never a day passes without me being haunted by it. I always ask why, if she wanted to end her life, did she not choose a "better" method, such as an overdose. Without doubt her act was "selfish" because she had not considered the effect of such a death on those who loved her and on the rail staff involved. But then, if you are suffering from a psychiatric illness, you do not necessarily think logically.

The following day we were allowed to leave some flowers near the scene. Somehow we wanted to bring something beautiful to the location after the horror of the previous day. However, we have not done so since and I understand the comments that drivers and other staff have difficulties with the appearance of "shrines" at fatality locations.

I now work as a signaller and hope and pray that I never get that call from a driver.....