The 'Stop Hs2' campaign's dirty tricks.

[Snapper]

Here's another classic. Not content with labelling Hs2Ltd and supporters as ''Nazis' they're now crying foul because they've lost the chance to fiddle footpath usage figures.

http://stophs2.org/news/6112-hs2-break-agreement-rights-surveys

HS2 Ltd break agreement on rights of way surveys

Surveyors working for HS2 Ltd have been spotted surveying today, Saturday 18th August, despite agreeing that they would only conduct the initial surveys on Sundays.

An email, which has been forwarded to Stop HS2, was sent on 30th July to the lead engagement officer at Buckinghamshire County Council and clearly states their brief;

“Full day survey (continuous count and sample interview), Sundays from 5 Aug to 9 Sept (0800-1800)”

Despite this, surveyors were spotted first thing on a bridleway between Aylesbury and Bishopstone. This specific right of way can be found by entering the postcode ‘HP21 9LN’ at http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/row/online_map.page

Surveyors have also been seen today further north in the county, around the Twyford area.

Surveys will be going on at weekends up until 9th September, so if you see any in your area please let us know at penny@stophs2.org and joe@stophs2.org and we can pass the message on. HS2 Ltd have a legal requirement to survey all rights of way which HS2 would cross if built.

It has been confirmed that in the West Midlands, footpaths between Meriden/A45 and Water Orton will be surveyed tomorrow, Sunday 19th August.

When they know a path is being surveyed they tweet or email supporters, asking them to go out on those paths.

If you're on Twitter you can see more of their deceit and dirty tricks if you visit the #hs2 hashtag.

Why not join us and help us to redress the balance?

 

[SS4]

That's not surprising, they're up to the same tricks as the No to AV campaign. Strange isn't it how the largely Tory press hasn't picked up on this as dirty tricks when many of their rank and file supporters don't want HS2

 

[NSEFAN]

I see no reference to Nazis on that page, Snapper. They are merely noting that surveys are taking place.

 

[Snapper]

NSEFAN - the Nazi references are all in the Twitter feed.

 

[NSEFAN]

I've looked for them in the twitter feed, but I can't seem to find them.

 

[SS4]

I'm more concerned out Thames Valley councils using public money to oppose HS2
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2012-08-16/more-council-money-to-fight-hs2/

Councils in the Thames Valley are setting aside more money to fight the controversial HS2 project.

£1.2 million has been earmarked but more money is needed for a High Court case to try to stop the plan. Aylesbury Vale District Council had already decided to spend £100,000 to fight the rail link.

This week it has voted to spend another £50,000. Other local authorities look set to follow.

The £32 billion plan would see a new high speed line from Euston to Birmingham passing near to Wendover and Aylesbury and just north of Bicester and Banbury.

Campaigners say there is no economic case and areas of The Chilterns will be destroyed. The Government say it will create thousands of jobs, is good for the economy and will free up capacity on the London to Birmingham route which is overcrowded.

 

[Squaddie]

HS2 was justified on the grounds that there is no spare capacity on the West Coast Main Line.

And yet First is forecasting (and, in fact, depending on) 10% growth each year on that line during the life of their franchise.

Did someone say dirty tricks?

 

[swt_passenger]

HS2 was justified on the grounds that there is no spare capacity on the West Coast Main Line.

And yet First is forecasting (and, in fact, depending on) 10% growth each year on that line during the life of their franchise.

Did someone say dirty tricks?

Capacity means very different things depending on time of day and distance from London, whether you are looking at an all day average, or some particular service. These issues are the same on the WCML as any other route.

Having vast amounts of capacity between Birmingham and Glasgow in the middle of the day doesn't imply there's any in the peaks between Birmingham and Euston - the bit HS2 means to relieve initially...

 

[Pumbaa]

Now now Snapper - stop feeding them...

 

[JohnB57]

Paul. Big respect for your work, but I think you should be careful not to appear to be recruiting for any form of political or pressure group on here. A lot of rail enthusiasts remain agnostic on HS2, even some within the rail press, as you will know from one of the main outlets for your images. Also, I'm pretty sure that "dirty tricks", or manipulation of data, is going on in equal measure by both sides and anything else is probably a forlorn expectation.

 

[Robsignals]

Capacity means very different things depending on time of day and distance from London, whether you are looking at an all day average, or some particular service. These issues are the same on the WCML as any other route.

Having vast amounts of capacity between Birmingham and Glasgow in the middle of the day doesn't imply there's any in the peaks between Birmingham and Euston - the bit HS2 means to relieve initially...

I think HS2 predict WCML will reach 'full' capacity around 2027, when stage one of HS2 is due to open.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

HS2 was justified on the grounds that there is no spare capacity on the West Coast Main Line.

And yet First is forecasting (and, in fact, depending on) 10% growth each year on that line during the life of their franchise.

Did someone say dirty tricks?

Well if First aim for 10% growth per year then how long before the WCML is full given that HS2 phase 1 it not due to open till 2026?

This is just the latest in a long line of dirty tricks by the No to HS2 campaigns. Can remember hem publishing a document showing all the places that will lose out though longer journey times is HS2 goes ahead including Nottingham and Derby because they claimed that if HS2 is given the go ahead then the MML will NOT be electrified (due to lack of funding) and journey times to and from London would be longer. So what happens when the government gives the go ahead to MML electrification last month, no sorry we were wrong because investment in HS2 and the classic network are completely separate. No more lies about how the decision to electrify the MML renders HS2 obsolete because journey times will improve by a few minutes (like that solves the long term capacity problems on the southern WCML).

 

[Snapper]

HS2 was justified on the grounds that there is no spare capacity on the West Coast Main Line.

And yet First is forecasting (and, in fact, depending on) 10% growth each year on that line during the life of their franchise.

Did someone say dirty tricks?

No. It wasn't. It's justified on the fact capacity will run out in 2024 - 2027. Then what do we do?

 

[MattRobinson]

I'm still of the opinion that the rail service in this country would be more improved by spending the money earmarked for HS2 on the current infrastructure, predominantly by widening lines and making the MML a primary route from London to Leeds.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[gordonthemoron]

widening lines doesn't work & is extremely costly, c.f. WCML upgrade for Pendolino

 

[swt_passenger]

... predominantly by widening lines and making the MML a primary route from London to Leeds.

So how exactly does that help London to Birmingham capacity?

Will there a capacity issue with London to Leeds via the ECML in the same timescales?

 

[The Ham]

When they know a path is being surveyed they tweet or email supporters, asking them to go out on those paths.

So, let them go out and enjoy the British Country side; as the footpaths, bridleways, etc. will be retained under HS2 (maybe with a diversion) as closing routes is almost imposible (diverting them is hard enough).

 

[Wath Yard]

So there are no references to Nazis in the article, and someone who has looked can't find any reference to Nazis in the Twitter feed.

Did someone mention deceit and dirty tricks?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

HS2 was justified on the grounds that there is no spare capacity on the West Coast Main Line.

And yet First is forecasting (and, in fact, depending on) 10% growth each year on that line during the life of their franchise.

You're absolutely spot on. The whole business case for HS2 is that passenger growth will be so strong on the WCML that it will be at capacity in the mid 2020s, yet when First put this in their bid everybody jumps up and down and says it can't be done. I believe First are actually predicting approx 6% growth pa.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Deceit?
The linked article states that an agreement had been reached to survey the routes on Sundays only. Surveying was being carried out on Saturday. Who's being deceitful?

 

[JohnB57]

You're absolutely spot on. The whole business case for HS2 is that passenger growth will be so strong on the WCML that it will be at capacity in the mid 2020s, yet when First put this in their bid everybody jumps up and down and says it can't be done. I believe First are actually predicting approx 6% growth pa.

The figures are quite scary. Virgin's passenger figures are now around 30 million per year. 6% year on year growth under First will grow that figure to just under 68 million by 2026. Adding a figure based on 6% of today's figures each year still results in just under 66 million journeys by 2026.

It's hard to imagine where that business is going to come from. Virgin have "more than doubled" passenger figures during their tenure so have added around 16 million journeys in 15 years. First are forecasting similar growth in 7 years.

 

[OxtedL]

I don't really fancy wading into this nonsense, but I am intrigued to know what harm a surveyor could do on a Saturday as opposed to a Sunday.

 

[tbtc]

This is just the latest in a long line of dirty tricks by the No to HS2 campaigns. Can remember hem publishing a document showing all the places that will lose out though longer journey times is HS2 goes ahead including Nottingham and Derby because they claimed that if HS2 is given the go ahead then the MML will NOT be electrified (due to lack of funding) and journey times to and from London would be longer. So what happens when the government gives the go ahead to MML electrification last month, no sorry we were wrong because investment in HS2 and the classic network are completely separate. No more lies about how the decision to electrify the MML renders HS2 obsolete because journey times will improve by a few minutes (like that solves the long term capacity problems on the southern WCML).

True.

The "anti" crowd will use any argument they can, as long as its answer is "no HS2".

One minute it was "HS2 is starving other lines of investment and we could solve all the problems by investing on conventional lines". Then the Government announced huge CP5 investment, so the "anti" crowd claim that we now don't need HS2 (because of all the other investment*).

* - This ignores the fact that the CP5 plans aren't adding many additional lines (bar Bletchley - Oxford), just electrifying the ones we do have.

 

[EM2]

I don't really fancy wading into this nonsense, but I am intrigued to know what harm a surveyor could do on a Saturday as opposed to a Sunday.

That was my initial thought.

 

[All Line Rover]

The figures are quite scary. Virgin's passenger figures are now around 30 million per year. 6% year on year growth under First will grow that figure to just under 68 million by 2026. Adding a figure based on 6% of today's figures each year still results in just under 66 million journeys by 2026.

The majority of Pendolinos will be 11-cars, Coach G will be Standard Class on every Pendolino, new 6-car EMU's will be running on the Birmingham to Scotland route, these will displace Super Voyagers which can then be used for new services to new destinations.

It's not hard to see where First are predicting the growth to come from. First also seem to want to manage capacity better than Virgin - spreading out loadings across all services rather than having quiet Peak services and packed Off-Peak services.

HS2 is a completely different proposition.

 

[Wath Yard]

I don't really fancy wading into this nonsense, but I am intrigued to know what harm a surveyor could do on a Saturday as opposed to a Sunday.

At a guess - people are more likely to work, shop or attend sports events, etc on a Saturday and more likely to go for a wander around the countryside on a Sunday.

So HS2 want to measure the number of people of a quiet day and anti-HS2 want them measured on a busy day.

It's all very sad really. It would be nice if decisions could be made on facts after a rational debate, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

 

[route:oxford]

I don't really fancy wading into this nonsense, but I am intrigued to know what harm a surveyor could do on a Saturday as opposed to a Sunday.

It's an absolute disgrace that a lobbyist group is demanding people work when they should clearly be at church.

 

[The Planner]

That needs a Facebook-esque like button, not often I laugh out loud to posts on here.

 

[tbtc]

At a guess - people are more likely to work, shop or attend sports events, etc on a Saturday and more likely to go for a wander around the countryside on a Sunday.

So HS2 want to measure the number of people of a quiet day and anti-HS2 want them measured on a busy day.

It's all very sad really. It would be nice if decisions could be made on facts after a rational debate, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

But then a Saturday will be busier than a midweek day?

Really, this is the anti-lobby splitting hairs - the need for 21st century infrastructure is more important than getting into any arguments about the number of dog walkers on a particular day of the week. The fact that the anti-lobby have dragged the argument down to such minutia shows how desperate/ petty this debate is going to get.

 

[SS4]

It's an absolute disgrace that a lobbyist group is demanding people work when they should clearly be at church.

Classic Line! If we had thanks for posts you'd get one

The anti-lobby are going for a self-fulfilling prophecy about cost and time delays. What they are doing is bogging down the project at every turn causing time to be lost and costs to go up trying to fight them thus letting the anti lobby crow in victory about the delays they caused.

 

[Mvann]

As far as I can see, this is all about capacity. I presume stop hs2 would complain if the great central was re opened instead.