"The Specials" Season

[O L Leigh]

Given the number of heritage specials running around the network at the moment, I feel compelled to make a couple of observations and comments based on the experience of the last few days I have been at work.

1) If I have to sound the warning horn at you then it is purely as a warning, hence the name. It is not a reward for how often or how hard you pump your arm at me nor an acknowledgement of the circumference of your testicles based on how close to a live running line you happen to be standing. If I have to blow up at you it is because you are a pillock of the highest order and I consider that you are endangering yourself. Please do not cream your pants with excitement but consider whether or not you are about to become another sad RAIB statistic.

2) If you are going to attempt to take a photo of the train I am driving in low light, please be aware that what I will see is your camera showing me a red light. As I'm sure you are aware, red is a safety critical colour on the railway and has a certain meaning for those of us who work in the industry. If you attempt to take a snap and then see the service train you were attempting to immortalise in pixels come to a screeching halt you can safely assume that it is your fault and that the driver will be reporting you to the controlling signaller.

Please remember that there are elements in the enthusiast community who will spoil it for the rest of you. Nitwit Rail are just waiting for one of you to get bowled over in order to have some justification to ban all heritage services from their metals. Likewise, please remember that you are also a menace to the rest of us trying to run bog standard scheduled services with boring modern traction.

Thank you.

O L Leigh

 

[dysonsphere]

Oh dear had a bad day then

 

[jopsuk]

the line you drive on has a relatively low number of specials doesn't it? If things are that bad at the moment, I dread to think what they're like on more popular routes.

 

[trentside]

Please remember that there are elements in the enthusiast community who will spoil it for the rest of you. Nitwit Rail are just waiting for one of you to get bowled over in order to have some justification to ban all heritage services from their metals. Likewise, please remember that you are also a menace to the rest of us trying to run bog standard scheduled services with boring modern traction.

I couldn't agree with O L Leigh more, it's certain elements who spoil it for the rest.

I don't usually work on the platforms, but on the one occasion I have it was as 'crowd control' on a day when a special was due in. The amount of abuse I took for telling people to move back was unbelievable, and more so when retrieving people from beyond the 'Passengers must not pass this point' signs. This is an operational railway, we're only concerned for people's safety and the safe operation of the railway. If you're at a station (or anywhere) and rail staff tell you to move back then do it, don't argue or be abusive to that person. I'd also request that you don't run about to try and get that perfect picture - pushing other people out of the way isn't acceptable behaviour either.

The day of this special, at least one enthusiast was removed from the station by BTP at the request of staff due to refusal to do as instructed. Don't let this be you - though I'm sure most people on this forum would never behave like this!

 

[Mintona]

I would like to add a 3rd if I may:

If you're on board a railtour, and want to stick your head out of the window on the 'live' side, then have a little peek first to make sure it's safe. I almost decapitated someone a few weeks ago who stuck their head fully out, and back in again pretty damn sharp when he saw me coming.

 

[AlexS]

Although as an addendum to any drivers concerned with this kind of incident - if you run into a staffed station, make the person in charge of the platform aware of any particular idiots so we can deal with them. It's hard to be at the extreme end of the platform at all times where these kind of people hang out (not all enthusiasts being coloured here, just the Darwinian variety) and if we have a report that someone is being a prize prat, particularly from a driver, we can easily get rid of them and make an example.

 

[martybabes]

1) ...

2) If you are going to attempt to take a photo of the train I am driving in low light, please be aware that what I will see is your camera showing me a red light. As I'm sure you are aware, red is a safety critical colour on the railway and has a certain meaning for those of us who work in the industry. If you attempt to take a snap and then see the service train you were attempting to immortalise in pixels come to a screeching halt you can safely assume that it is your fault and that the driver will be reporting you to the controlling signaller.


Thank you.

O L Leigh

Is this for real? Are you honestly saying that red lights on cameras will make you execute an emergency stop? What about cycle lights or children's fairground toys, or coloured jewellery. I accept that driving a train is somewhat different to driving a car, but when I am on unfamiliar territory in the family saloon, I am not going to be slamming on the brakes every time a flash of red comes into view. I will be on the lookout for traffic lights, pedestrian controlled crossings and other traffic management signals, as I am sure you will be on your train, but at least you'll know where they are sited.

I am happy to be politely corrected if I have misunderstood something.

 

[Tomnick]

A red light held steadily - not necessarily a fixed signal - is one of the means by which a train can be brought to a stand in an emergency. I can well imagine it being difficult to distinguish between a red light being pointed at the train by a camera-toting enthusiast on a busy platform in low light and a red light being pointed at the train by a member of staff on a busy platform in low light.

 

[shedman]

I understand the message but see it as slightly OTT

 

[O L Leigh]

Camera-toting enthusiasts do not just hang around on platforms. They are on overbridges, near crossings and, often, right out in the middle of nowhere.

If I see a red light pointing in my direction I have to make a split second decision about what it might be and, if I'm unsure, I will always assume the worst and brake hard to reduce speed. In low light conditions I cannot be certain that it's just a camera or a cyclist or whatever and not a track worker or other member of railstaff showing me a red light in order to stop me because of some catastrophe just around the corner that I cannot yet see.

It may not seem much to you, but I can assure you that the red lights on cameras are very visible. I'm not suggesting that pointing a camera at a train will result in an emergency stop, but simply conveying the view from the cab. A red light in isolation near the railway is going to grab the attention of a driver and may result in the driver interpreting it as a hand danger signal. If you're going to take photos in low light please be aware of this and, if there is any way to disable whatever function it is on your camera that causes this red light to show, please switch it off.

O L Leigh

 

[broadgage]

I have been on a train on a preserved line that made an emergency stop due to an extranous red light.
Light of various colours had been placed on a tree in a private garden, for Christmas. Most of the tree was concealed from the drivers view by a fence, but the top light light which was red was clearly seen from the cab.

I have also seen a train running into one of the bay platforms at the old Blackfriars station make an emergency stop.
Part way along the platform was a small office, and the driver saw what appeared to be a bardic handlamp on red in the office window and therefore made an emergency stop.
In fact what the driver had seen was a reflection in the office window of a signal correctly showing red.
I beieve that the glass had recently been broken and replaced with new, and that the old glass was frosted on the OUTSIDE to avoid reflections, the replacement give a clear reflection.

Both these cases show that drivers are alert for red lights that could be from a hand danger signal, rather than a fixed signal.

The relatively brief but suprisingly bright red light from many cameras can look like like a flashing tail light in some circumstances.

 

[Tomnick]

I've been subjected to the full force of a camera flash, at fairly close range, just as I was preparing to receive the single line staff from a driver (on a heritage line now). That sort of distraction and brief blindness leads to, at best, dropping the staff (possibly under the loco) or, worse, a broken hand as you fail to get hold of it and instead make rather heavy contact with it. A little thought goes a long way sometimes!

 

[speckledjim]

I do fear that people getting too close to the edge of platforms is a big risk to safety, and sadly could be an excuse to stop specials in the future if an incident occurred. Have visited ely to catch specials several times and it is always a chaotic experience - even seen arguments over camera 'locations' between members of public.

I am a huge advocate of all specials (especially 'kettles') and would hate to see them be restricted in the future due to other peoples stupidity.

 

[Oswyntail]

I have been on a train on a preserved line that made an emergency stop due to an extranous red light.....

Not to mention red flannel knickers

 

[GB]

To be honest, I'd be surprised if Network Rail had the legal authority to completely stop charters/specials from running based on the enthusiast community even if they wanted to.

 

[island]

I always thought the camera auto-focus assist lamp was orange. [On mine, it is white and can be switched off.]

 

[scotsman]

Focus-assist lights come in a few colours, and the vast majority of cameras have the option to disable them.

Passengers on specials/photters chasing them do tend to believe that they know better than most 'normals' allowing them to behave in a different manner...sometimes this is just plain dangerous.

 

[trivran]

I've never understood the appeal of sticking your head out the window, on either side..say there's a huge great pole just waiting to smack you in the head? Not to mention a train.

 

[Goatboy]

I've never understood the appeal of sticking your head out the window, on either side..say there's a huge great pole just waiting to smack you in the head? Not to mention a train.

To be fair your biggest danger is probably foiliage etc as if a pole was so close to a train that having your head out of the window a tad would be painful then it's surely fouling the loading guage.

 

[O L Leigh]

To be honest, I'd be surprised if Network Rail had the legal authority to completely stop charters/specials from running based on the enthusiast community even if they wanted to.

Believe it. It's their railway, after all. They can even bar individual drivers from the mainline network on the basis of their safety record.

O L Leigh

 

[ash39]

Regarding point 2 , it's unlikely that the photographer would have much success anyway if the train is moving, unless they have a very good camera/lens combination. Low light and moving trains are not easy to capture properly, so it's a pretty pointless exercise and I can see your point.

However as someone previously said I think it's a bit of an overreaction to say a tiny orange light could be mistaken for someone signalling you to stop the train! If you really have issues identifying people, cameras, lights or whatever in anything other than perfect light, surely the unsafe element is yourself?

 

[O L Leigh]

Totally disagree on so many levels, but am at a complete loss as to how to explain it to you without resorting to the "I know what I'm talking about and you don't" approach, especially as that is, in effect, what it boils down to.

The problem is that in less than perfect conditions there often isn't anything to help identify what is being seen. There is simply a point of bright light that, like many other bright lights, obscures everything behind and around it. It can be hard to judge it's size, distance or origin without any reference, therefore it has to be treated with caution until such time that it can be identified. This isn't a situation unique to train drivers, and I'm sure you can think of situations applicable to your own experiences.

Where that light is red in colour, there will be the thought in the mind of a driver that perhaps it's a danger signal. We can't assume it's a camera or a cyclist or whatever and blithely ignore it because it might just actually be a hand danger signal. The point I'm making is that until we know we are likely to assume the worst, and the reason I bring it up is because it is pertinent to the season.

Whether or not it gives a good photo, the fact remains that people still try it.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with my eyesight. I have passed all the tests necessary to hold my position.

O L Leigh

 

[Poolie]

Please believe me I think I understand the rules and regulations of the modern railway, but as a 'trainspotter' of the 60's I was on the 11.15 from Harrow on the Hill to Marylebone every Saturday taking in the last of london steam and I was high as a kite breathing in the smell and the sound with full open windows. I don't know any statistics across the whole network, but how many people at the time were killed by the smell of steam?

 

[crewmeal]

In 1985 a friend of mine decided to play bridge and stuck his head out of a window and ended up in casualty, his future at the time unknown. The Dr's diaognosed severe brain damage due to the impact of his head hitting the bridge. Thirty years on he has had no life since the accident being severely disabled and relying on others to look after him.

 

[Maxfly]

Maybe a point that it is not just signals that stop drivers so that could well be why OL Leigh says that a light from a camera can stop a train. If i was lineside and needed a train stoppped i can use any form of light i can, even green (along with any other colour) will stop a train when shaken vigerously. So he is not mistaking a small light for a 'fixed signal' as I it looks like some here are thinking but just a stop signal that could be from anyone lineside etc.

 

[ash39]

Totally disagree on so many levels, but am at a complete loss as to how to explain it to you without resorting to the "I know what I'm talking about and you don't" approach, especially as that is, in effect, what it boils down to.

The problem is that in less than perfect conditions there often isn't anything to help identify what is being seen. There is simply a point of bright light that, like many other bright lights, obscures everything behind and around it. It can be hard to judge it's size, distance or origin without any reference, therefore it has to be treated with caution until such time that it can be identified. This isn't a situation unique to train drivers, and I'm sure you can think of situations applicable to your own experiences.

Where that light is red in colour, there will be the thought in the mind of a driver that perhaps it's a danger signal. We can't assume it's a camera or a cyclist or whatever and blithely ignore it because it might just actually be a hand danger signal. The point I'm making is that until we know we are likely to assume the worst, and the reason I bring it up is because it is pertinent to the season.

Whether or not it gives a good photo, the fact remains that people still try it.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with my eyesight. I have passed all the tests necessary to hold my position.

O L Leigh

Pretty much the defensive reply I expected. I still find it confusing that the light from an AF assist lamp is bright enough to obscure everything around it, but as I have never driven a train I will have to take your word for it.

I do agree with your other points though. Anyone using a flash to photograph a moving train (or motor vehicle) is an idiot and should be dealt with accordingly, and having witnessed steam specials passing through York station when waiting for a train, the scramble for a position to take a shot is quite serious and people do undoubtedly put themselves in danger. By the sounds of it individuals are being dealt with which is a good thing. If people want an uncluttered photo without having to barge your way into position on a platform edge, why not just shoot it lineside a few miles out of the station?

 

[Oswyntail]

Pretty much the defensive reply I expected.

I don't think "defensive" is the right word. The reply explained the situation pretty well

I still find it confusing that the light from an AF assist lamp is bright enough to obscure everything around it, but as I have never driven a train I will have to take your word for it.....

It is because of the way the eye works. It is not so much that the light is so bright it obscures everything, so much that, in moderate to poor lighting, any light source will stand out. The eye focuses on that, and not on the darker surroundings, because there is less light available from them; the brain then interprets what is being relayed to it as if the light source is visible and the rest not really. This is why, for instance, archers can continue to shoot well into the dusk because they are focusing on the gold, whereas those around them think it is much too dark!

 

[HowardGWR]

In 1985 a friend of mine decided to play bridge and stuck his head out of a window and ended up in casualty, his future at the time unknown. The Dr's diaognosed severe brain damage due to the impact of his head hitting the bridge. Thirty years on he has had no life since the accident being severely disabled and relying on others to look after him.

Hopefully not just for my benefit, could you explain what 'playing bridge' is ('was' I hope)?

 

[Muzer]

Judging by context, I believe it's "sticking your head out of the window right before a narrow bridge".

 

[TDK]

I've never understood the appeal of sticking your head out the window, on either side..say there's a huge great pole just waiting to smack you in the head? Not to mention a train.

I saw the results of someone having half their face ripped off by foliage. Generally structures are far enough away but in certain areas they are very close, I belive on the Hastings line and also between Acton Canal Wharf and Neasden.