The 'Security Services'...

[rosscbrown]

At Waverly station, it feels like the the pre-recorded announcement system is constantly playing a message along the lines of 'Unattended luggage may be damaged or destroyed by the security services'.

My first issue with this announcement is that it is far from comprehensive, unattended luggage might also be taken to lost luggage, stolen by youths, glared at by station staff or ignored by busy commuters (see: diffused responsibility).

Moving on to my question: who exactly are the 'Security Services'? At first I though that they would be the British Transport Police but after chatting to a friend in the 'intelligence community' I'm discovered that MI5 are often referred to as the 'security service'.

So who is going to be damaging and destroying my unattended luggage?

Also, seeing there are no bins these days in railway stations (presumably at the request of said elusive 'security services') what are the rules on littering etc? I don't like hanging on to my trash for extended periods of time while I wait for a train etc?

 

[Bighat]

At Waverly station, it feels like the the pre-recorded announcement system is constantly playing a message along the lines of 'Unattended luggage may be damaged or destroyed by the security services'.

My first issue with this announcement is that it is far from comprehensive, unattended luggage might also be taken to lost luggage, stolen by youths, glared at by station staff or ignored by busy commuters (see: diffused responsibility).

Moving on to my question: who exactly are the 'Security Services'? At first I though that they would be the British Transport Police but after chatting to a friend in the 'intelligence community' I'm discovered that MI5 are often referred to as the 'security service'.

So who is going to be damaging and destroying my unattended luggage?

Also, seeing there are no bins these days in railway stations (presumably at the request of said elusive 'security services') what are the rules on littering etc? I don't like hanging on to my trash for extended periods of time while I wait for a train etc?

In this context, the 'security services' could involved one or more of several agencies.

Where unatended baggage is concerned, in the current political climate, the norm is better safe than sorry.

Although BTP (or local rozzers if no BTP available) will call the bomb squad to deal with the matter.

This will be the nearest unit. Larger police forces DO have bomb disposal units, but where possible it will be one of the armed services. All three services operate bomb disposal units, it just depends which is nearest.

Because of the possible terrorist implications, once the 'item' has been neutralised (unless found to be non-offensive), special branch will become involved. Again, the size of that unit in whichever police force is involved, will determin if it is deemed necessary to then involve Army Intelligence, MI5 or MI6.

As for the removal of waste bins, this was done to stop small explosive devices designed to cause maximum injury to civilians.

So the answer there is TAKE YOUR BLOODY LITTER HOME WITH YOU!

 

[Stonesourscotty]

How about some of them none explosive bins with Information screens on the sides at Larger stations like Londons busy streets are getting?

 

[rosscbrown]

So the answer there is TAKE YOUR BLOODY LITTER HOME WITH YOU!

Pretty much thought that would be the response. Still, why then have bins etc on the trains? Surely the 'bad guys' do what they'd do in the station on the train? I really don't see what the point is, I mean there is a trash can outside the main entrance of [name of large station] - why's that not considered a security threat?

Taking my crap home is not always a solution: Get off a Virgin Voyager with my little bag from The Shop and quickly finish off my snack and catch a taxi to a client meeting. I can't really show up there with a bag of rubbish under my arm!

(Thanks for the insight regarding the security service - lucky I've never seen them have to do their 'thing' before and while I'd like to, I hope I don't.)

 

[Bighat]

Pretty much thought that would be the response. Still, why then have bins etc on the trains? Surely the 'bad guys' do what they'd do in the station on the train? I really don't see what the point is, I mean there is a trash can outside the main entrance of [name of large station] - why's that not considered a security threat?

Taking my crap home is not always a solution: Get off a Virgin Voyager with my little bag from The Shop and quickly finish off my snack and catch a taxi to a client meeting. I can't really show up there with a bag of rubbish under my arm!

(Thanks for the insight regarding the security service - lucky I've never seen them have to do their 'thing' before and while I'd like to, I hope I don't.)

You're welcome. Incidentally, most government and large utitlity organisations have preplanned procedures to cover this, and other 'threats' to normal operations.

This includes computer and other IT problems, regardless as to whether the threat is commercial, terrorist or 'act of god' incidents like flooding.

From what I've read elsewhere, you won't have a shop on trains for much longer anyway.

When you arrive at your meeting, ask the receptionist if she can dispose of your litter.

It's not rocket science is it?

 

[Max]

Pretty much thought that would be the response. Still, why then have bins etc on the trains? Surely the 'bad guys' do what they'd do in the station on the train? I really don't see what the point is, I mean there is a trash can outside the main entrance of [name of large station] - why's that not considered a security threat?

Taking my crap home is not always a solution: Get off a Virgin Voyager with my little bag from The Shop and quickly finish off my snack and catch a taxi to a client meeting. I can't really show up there with a bag of rubbish under my arm!

(Thanks for the insight regarding the security service - lucky I've never seen them have to do their 'thing' before and while I'd like to, I hope I don't.)

On many modern trains, the bins can actually be locked 'out of use' if the need arises. I remember travelling on a 222 a couple of days after the 7/7 attacks, all the bins were locked, and this continued to be the case for a fair length of time. I'm sure you'd be able to find a bin fairly easily before getting your taxi - as you said, they can often be found right outside the station! Meanwhile, I certainly wouldn't endorse littering, but you may be interested to know that the major stations all have fairly intense cleaning regimes with litter pickers roaming around to remove any abandoned litter. Even my local station Hull, which is only really a medium size station, has regular littler collections and generally looks very tidy!

 

[rosscbrown]

ncidentally, most government and large utitlity organisations have preplanned procedures to cover this, and other 'threats' to normal operations.

Ah! I run smallish IT company and the highlight of the year has to be the 'continuity of business policy reviews'. We still haven't worked out what to do in the event of an emergence of a new world order! You'd not believe the other scenarios that get planned for. Usually the first item on the response chart is to call Marketing and PR so they can add some positive spin - no joke!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I was at Waverley a couple of summers ago (remember them?!) and I had bought a pasty or similar and I then had the problem of what to do with the paper bag. I collared someone in ScotRail uniform and asked where the bins were, he replied there aren't any, just leave it on the floor and a litter picker will remove it.
Having been brought up not to leave litter around I felt very unhappy leaving it, but I did as I had a wait for my train to Inverness.
They wouldnt need litter pickers on stations if there were bins for us to use!!

 

[Tom B]

I have had this problem several times when on Waverley and the response has always been to drop it as litter and the cleaner would sort it out. This, too, didn't seem natural at all - but if NR want a pretty station, encouraging passengers to litter isn't the way to do it!

I still fail to see why a bin is such a security risk. If you remove them, the terrorists will simply find another place to place their explosive.

There is a bin at the top of Waverley Steps - which is frequently spilling over, presumably because of the number of people coming out the station and putting it in there.

The announcement itself always sounds to me as if the woman is trying to sound threatening and serious, but is gradually falling asleep - muttering "...by the security services" before finally nodding off!

 

[EM2]

I still fail to see why a bin is such a security risk. If you remove them, the terrorists will simply find another place to place their explosive.

Because bins and rubbish bags are difficult to search in a hurry. It's much easier for the authorities to peer into corners and crevices with a torch, than go rummaging through bins. And when they are involved in a search, time is of the essence.

 

[LilLoaf]

I still fail to see why a bin is such a security risk. If you remove them, the terrorists will simply find another place to place their explosive. says Tom B

Yeah i agree with that like, there will always be somewhere to hide something.

On the subject of rubbish, who going to take their rubbish home with them must be totally mad. Why not just leave on the floor somewhere (in a corner not in middle of platform) and then the cleaner can clear it away when they come around, or on a seat, or somewhere where a cleaner can see it. Thats what they are paid to clear away rubbish.

 

[bluenoxid]

At Waverly station, it feels like the the pre-recorded announcement system is constantly playing a message along the lines of 'Unattended luggage may be damaged or destroyed by the security services'.

My first issue with this announcement is that it is far from comprehensive, unattended luggage might also be taken to lost luggage, stolen by youths, glared at by station staff or ignored by busy commuters (see: diffused responsibility).

Moving on to my question: who exactly are the 'Security Services'? At first I though that they would be the British Transport Police but after chatting to a friend in the 'intelligence community' I'm discovered that MI5 are often referred to as the 'security service'.

So who is going to be damaging and destroying my unattended luggage?

Also, seeing there are no bins these days in railway stations (presumably at the request of said elusive 'security services') what are the rules on littering etc? I don't like hanging on to my trash for extended periods of time while I wait for a train etc?

It is an old announcement. This used to be the standard announcement across the country when I was young. Now, the British Transport Police are referred to.

Security services is what people usually refer to MI5 as but it can refer to so many agencies

 

[GB]

I still fail to see why a bin is such a security risk. If you remove them, the terrorists will simply find another place to place their explosive.

Its called mitigation. Bins have a proven track record of being security risks and its only right this risk is minimised.

Alot of stations (certainly local to me) these days simply have clear refuse sacks attached to a metal or plastic ring in place of bins.

 

[Bighat]

I still fail to see why a bin is such a security risk. If you remove them, the terrorists will simply find another place to place their explosive. says Tom B

Yeah i agree with that like, there will always be somewhere to hide something.

On the subject of rubbish, who going to take their rubbish home with them must be totally mad. Why not just leave on the floor somewhere (in a corner not in middle of platform) and then the cleaner can clear it away when they come around, or on a seat, or somewhere where a cleaner can see it. Thats what they are paid to clear away rubbish.

Your ASBO awaits!

 

[AlexS]

Bins are however making a comeback!

At lots of stations I have noticed the metal ring with clear plastic bag type bin has been brought back into use.

 

[EM2]

The other issue is that IEDs (Improvised Explosive Devices) often have a sensor or tilt switch to detonate them. So, if someone is doing a search and having to rummage through a closed bin, there's a chance that anything in there can get disturbed and activated.

 

[rosscbrown]

Yes, my problem here was how unnatural it feels to just drop litter. Secondly, when I have my little bag of snacks from the shop I'm a little worried about leaving that on a platform etc - goodness knows what you can fit into a brown paper bag.

 

[ian13]

As for the removal of waste bins, this was done to stop small explosive devices designed to cause maximum injury to civilians.

So the answer there is TAKE YOUR BLOODY LITTER HOME WITH YOU!

Yet there are still bins in trains where bombs could cause more damage?

It annoys me that you can buy a hot drink, yet can't dispose of the cup. Put it in your bag you say, well I don't like my things covered in coffee? I'd rather not break the law and abandon it, but it seems thats what's expected.

 

[markusgl1]

Pretty much thought that would be the response. Still, why then have bins etc on the trains? Surely the 'bad guys' do what they'd do in the station on the train? I really don't see what the point is, I mean there is a trash can outside the main entrance of [name of large station] - why's that not considered a security threat?

Taking my crap home is not always a solution: Get off a Virgin Voyager with my little bag from The Shop and quickly finish off my snack and catch a taxi to a client meeting. I can't really show up there with a bag of rubbish under my arm!

i give my rubbish to staff one of the station cafes or a member of station staff,

i've been at southampton when the luggage announcement has been in 3 languages

 

[furryfeet]

certain stations now DO have litter bins.
e.g. at tamworth there are bins with clear plastic bags.
and they are used by passengers !

 

[rosscbrown]

Having just sat for an hour and a half at Wavery I can quite confidently say that explosives in trash cans should be the least of their worries. I’d be more worried about Upper Crust employees turning rogue!

In fact, I’d be worried about ANYONE on staff - but particularly locations with high staff turnover (I’m looking at you Burger King!) and staff working close to the platforms (here’s to you, vending machine merchandiser).

So if you ask me, we bring back the bins - or all the food outlets go and we make stations completely sterile environments. My question here is, what are the security checks for station staff? Are the vetted like airport staff *should* be?

Now to security cameras. Lets get shot of them too. There are far too many. I don’t see how real time monitoring of these cameras is cost effective so I doubt that it gets done. If all the cameras are not being watched then they won’t server to protect the public - they’ll only help the ‘security services’ catch the bad guys later on.

Also...
Noticed this tonight:

 

[90019]

I spend a fair bit of time at Waverley, and i just tune out that message cos i've heard it so many times. Often if i'm filming, i wont even notice it until i get back and hear it in the recording.I've had a few videos ruined by it because i was by a speaker without noticing. I mean, really, where is the need for a speaker at the end of a platform? Why not put it further back, so passengers can hear that one? or just get rid of it?

 

[rosscbrown]

90019, I was thinking that tonight. In the main area (Booking area, Costa,Burger King, between Whmsith and Boots etc) I never hear them - only on the platforms. I think they might only play them there - either that or like you say latent inhibition takes over and I don't notice them.

What do you think of the ladies voice? She sounds rather posh at times but often during the course of a sentence she slips out of it... Oh and I wish she wouldn't talk about the weather so much - I know to be careful when it is wet and/or windy!