The Railway: First Great Western on Channel 5

[PHILIPE]

Getting like Michael Portillo's programme. Story of Train Manager and her duties on the Gunnislake Branch. When she left Plymouth she had a 150/2 but when she arrived at Gunnislake it had changed to a 150/1

 

[A-driver]

being a Driver manager sounds like the best job in the world, driving a train to work lol!

And organising a cake on the same day as well...they obviously filmed them on a super busy day!

 

[Essexman]

Interesting with the RPI issuing Penalty Fares to the couple with child tickets who admitted buying them to save money. Surely they should have been reported for prosecution ?

Indeed. It's little wonder that so many people evade the fare when most of the time they won't get caught and even if they do the vast majority of the time the penalty isn't much more than the fare the didn't pay.

 

[GodAtum]

I hope they do a section about the Marlow branch!

Do FGW only transport festival goers lol?

I think they should operate some sort of frequent traveler system. those with weekly tickets or longer should get priority to board trains in front of those with day tickets.

 

[Butts]

Why do they have to adopt this modern trend of telling you what's coming up prior to the commercial break.

Mind you at least they don't ape some C5 programmes like The Hotel Inspector where they also recap the contents of what happened in the previous segment prior to the adverts.

This programme would be so much better if the BBC had made it.....but only be about 40 odd minutes long.

 

[Bedpan]

And did I hear the RPI referring to it as a "fine"?

That really made me chuckle, bearing in mind all the protestations on here over the years that they aren't fines.

 

[jon0844]

Why do they have to adopt this modern trend of telling you what's coming up prior to the commercial break.

Mind you at least they don't ape some C5 programmes like The Hotel Inspector where they also recap the contents of what happened in the previous segment prior to the adverts.

This programme would be so much better if the BBC had made it.....but only be about 40 odd minutes long.

This is why I mentioned the Gift Shop Sketch so early on. It's a great way to pad programmes and also appeal to channel hoppers and people with a short attention span.

 

[jon0844]

That really made me chuckle, bearing in mind all the protestations on here over the years that they aren't fines.

You make it sound like 'we' are wrong! It's not the first time they've been heard mentioning fines, as there was someone else on the last BBC series too.

I was a bit surprised and disappointed that those on child tickets weren't reported for prosecution too. In fact, as 'the only female RPI' she didn't seem to be doing a very good job.

 

[Bedpan]

I agree. It was a blatant attempt to defraud teh railway, unlike some of the more innocent transgressions that we hear about from time to time.

 

[Murph]

He said that the engines have been around since the 1960s, not the units themselves.

Hmm, back in the 1960s, wouldn't it have been something like a Perkins HT6.354? I believe the 165s use a Perkins 2006-TWH, or is that basically the same engine, but with the new style of model number?

 

[BestWestern]

I've seen it listed as only 8 episodes in every publication I have read recently, along with online guides.

Just to add to that - I had a conversation with a chap dealing with the filming rights etc for FGW, and he reckoned the production firm were struggling to fill the initial eighto episodes, and had made no approach regarding the additonal four. I think the series may well stop at eight, although if they explored the West operation a little rather than going to London all the time, they may well find some extra material!

 

[jon0844]

They must have asked FGW for advice and what days are particular busy, hence festivals and airshows.

I guess in London they could just hang about and wait for a signal failure or similar!

I always thought it would be tricky to fill 12 episodes about just one TOCs, at least for a general entertainment show that can't go into too much detail or risk boring casual viewers.

The series has certainly shown that FGW isn't too great on revenue duties, either from not enforcing things properly or not knowing about ticket restrictions and the fact it can't issue fines on the spot. I doubt this was just deliberate editing either, as the production crew probably didn't know either.

 

[Murph]

I wonder if they maybe have a deliberate policy to just try for a quick and profitable penalty fare, rather than a lengthy and cumbersome prosecution? In the case of a prosecution, the cost to the dodger is significantly higher, but so is the manpower involved.

Or, as I think was suggested many posts ago in this thread, maybe we're only seeing the non-judicial cases for legal reasons, and an abbreviated edit of them, so it doesn't fully reflect reality.

As far as the use of the word "fine" goes, while there may be a legal definition of it, so what? If the punter accepts the PF, it doesn't really matter what words are used to describe it, as long as it's valid to issue one and the forms are filled in correctly. It's also probably easier to just go along with the use of the word if, for example, the punter says something like "So, do I have to pay a fine now?", rather than go into a complex and pedantic discussion of what is and isn't a fine.

To the general public, any financial penalty imposed because of wrongdoing looks like a fine, feels like a fine, so it's not unreasonable for them to call it a fine. Courts have been known to apply the principle that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. So there's probably very little legal issue with allowing the use of the word, despite it technically being incorrect, as it's not being used for the purposes of trying to commit fraud or extortion. That's just a lay opinion, of course, not a legal opinion.

 

[jon0844]

I wasn't saying they couldn't use the word fine, only that they probably shouldn't.

They could have cut out those who are later referred to court, perhaps not wanting to be like a TV cop show and say at the end what the outcome was, but I wonder if it wasn't more a case of FGW simply going for more penalty fares, or letting people off a lot more than other TOCs that have clearly decided to 'go for it' - especially with out of court settlements that are a win win, as they keep the money and get a lot more in the first place.

Besides the revenue issues, I think it's been a great series and hope it has made people look at FGW in a new light - and see some of those moaning commuters for what they are!

 

[221129]

I wonder if they maybe have a deliberate policy to just try for a quick and profitable penalty fare, rather than a lengthy and cumbersome prosecution? In the case of a prosecution, the cost to the dodger is significantly higher, but so is the manpower involved.

Or, as I think was suggested many posts ago in this thread, maybe we're only seeing the non-judicial cases for legal reasons, and an abbreviated edit of them, so it doesn't fully reflect reality.

As far as the use of the word "fine" goes, while there may be a legal definition of it, so what? If the punter accepts the PF, it doesn't really matter what words are used to describe it, as long as it's valid to issue one and the forms are filled in correctly. It's also probably easier to just go along with the use of the word if, for example, the punter says something like "So, do I have to pay a fine now?", rather than go into a complex and pedantic discussion of what is and isn't a fine.

To the general public, any financial penalty imposed because of wrongdoing looks like a fine, feels like a fine, so it's not unreasonable for them to call it a fine. Courts have been known to apply the principle that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. So there's probably very little legal issue with allowing the use of the word, despite it technically being incorrect, as it's not being used for the purposes of trying to commit fraud or extortion. That's just a lay opinion, of course, not a legal opinion.

I think it may have just been the amount of time they had available. I believe PFs are quicker to issue and when you have that many people to deal with it just keeps things flowing. I know that down here they do go down the prosecution route fairly often.

 

[matchmaker]

Hmm, back in the 1960s, wouldn't it have been something like a Perkins HT6.354? I believe the 165s use a Perkins 2006-TWH, or is that basically the same engine, but with the new style of model number?

In the 1960's virtually all DMU's used a BUT (Leyland or AEC) 150bhp engine. No Perkins at all!

 

[Wyvern]

Interesting with the RPI issuing Penalty Fares to the couple with child tickets who admitted buying them to save money. Surely they should have been reported for prosecution ?

They did say that these were teenagers and that they wanted to catch them and give them a hard time but didnt want to spoil their weekend and their experience as customers.

They also said there would be other people on other services that they hinted were hardened fraudsters that they would take a different line with, though they didnt show any.

 

[Murph]

In the 1960's virtually all DMU's used a BUT (Leyland or AEC) 150bhp engine. No Perkins at all!

Yeah, the Leyland O.600 and O.680 were particularly common, I believe. It does make me wonder why the Perkins 6.354 wasn't used, as it has a very good reputation in other applications, and I'd guess should stand up well against the Leyland on efficiency. On the other hand, I'm not sure exactly when the 6.354 was introduced, and not certain that the preceding P6 was quite as good (or available as a horizontal config).

I does rather seem like the narrator did simply get the decades wrong, or the script-writers got confused, misinterpreting what someone had told them. E.g. perhaps they were told that the general style of under-coach horizontal diesel straight 6 had been around since the 60s, rather than the Perkins on the 165s.

 

[GlosRail]

Looks like it will only be 8 shows. They can't have even finished the filming when the show went out as the Dawlish air show, and Reading festival were only at the end of August.

Did all those going to Reading festival really not buy return tickets so had to queue up for a couple of hours? I would have thought most would have arrived by train, as well as going home by train.

 

[76020]

Looks like it will only be 8 shows. They can't have even finished the filming when the show went out as the Dawlish air show, and Reading festival were only at the end of August.

Did all those going to Reading festival really not buy return tickets so had to queue up for a couple of hours? I would have thought most would have arrived by train, as well as going home by train.

The first programme was originally listed in the Radio Times as 1/12, a few weeks back it changed to 6/8, so I guess next week’s episode will be the last.

 

[notadriver]

Interesting with the RPI issuing Penalty Fares to the couple with child tickets who admitted buying them to save money. Surely they should have been reported for prosecution ?

The RPI used to be a guard and said she took the promotion to RPI. Is Guard to RPI a promotion?

 

[Captain Chaos]

The RPI used to be a guard and said she took the promotion to RPI. Is Guard to RPI a promotion?

Not really. I went RPO to Guard and saw it more as a side step. She was in my link at Reading. She has always been Revenue focused. She was in the wrong job as a Guard.

 

[matchmaker]

Yeah, the Leyland O.600 and O.680 were particularly common, I believe. It does make me wonder why the Perkins 6.354 wasn't used, as it has a very good reputation in other applications, and I'd guess should stand up well against the Leyland on efficiency. On the other hand, I'm not sure exactly when the 6.354 was introduced, and not certain that the preceding P6 was quite as good (or available as a horizontal config).

I does rather seem like the narrator did simply get the decades wrong, or the script-writers got confused, misinterpreting what someone had told them. E.g. perhaps they were told that the general style of under-coach horizontal diesel straight 6 had been around since the 60s, rather than the Perkins on the 165s.

It would have been the O.680, which was rated at 150bhp and which had been around for some time in horizontal form in buses such as the Leyland Royal Tiger and Worldmaster.

 

[tony6499]

The RPI used to be a guard and said she took the promotion to RPI. Is Guard to RPI a promotion?

A pay cut I believe but some of the more revenue focussed Conductors prefer doing an RPI's job than the operational duties

 

[Captain Chaos]

A pay cut I believe but some of the more revenue focussed Conductors prefer doing an RPI's job than the operational duties

When you take into account Conductor's commission they are pretty much the same. You can earn more money as a Conductor though if you are willing to put in overtime.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Did anyone spot the "sunrise" that was actually a sunset being played in reverse?

 

[yorkie]

Did anyone spot the "sunrise" that was actually a sunset being played in reverse?

I will keep an eye out for that! So we have backwards sunrises/sunsets, backwards trains, what else?

Perhaps the film crew worked on Backwards.

Did they mention Notgniddap Nodnol?

On a serious note, FGW have provided assurances that the staff at Reading will be given appropriate training, so will now be applying the correct rules regarding tickets being valid until 0429

 

[1e10]

I will keep an eye out for that! So we have backwards sunrises/sunsets, backwards trains, what else?

Perhaps the film crew worked on Backwards.

Did they mention Notgniddap Nodlol?

On a serious note, FGW have provided assurances that the staff at Reading will be given appropriate training, so will now be applying the correct rules regarding tickets being valid until 0429

Did you contact FGW yourself?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Getting like Michael Portillo's programme. Story of Train Manager and her duties on the Gunnislake Branch. When she left Plymouth she had a 150/2 but when she arrived at Gunnislake it had changed to a 150/1

I noticed that lol Unit swap off camera aka foul up with continuity

 

[plymothian]

No one quibbling the mis-reference to the Great Western Main Line?