• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

The Railway: First Great Western on Channel 5

Status
Not open for further replies.

Geargrinder

Member
Joined
13 Oct 2012
Messages
144
I would have thought one of the reasons to have pcso's present would be to call in real police officers, by radio if required. That would be quicker than the guy calling on his phone having to explain everything to the police call taker. The chavs would still get to overhear.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,840
I disagree. People should know how to behave. No-one should have to put up with that behaviour. As Jody said she was subjected to an hour of verbal abuse from off duty female police officers. She also said "Bit different to Monday morning." I would love to behave at normal commuter times in the manner I am expected to tolerate going home from late turn.
I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that as a female she should get special treatment. Equality was fought for in employment, not just the nice bits.
I have to say that I know several women who are far better at dealing with drunken groups like those shown than I am.


It may have been worth reporting those policewomen to their employer, certain standards are expected from police officers even when they're off duty
 

dave55uk

Member
Joined
11 Feb 2009
Messages
106
Location
Ely, England.
Use Adblock. Works for me on Firefox with no adverts before, during or after the episode!

I believe Searle suggested using an adblocker. I did a Google and installed Adblock Plus. When I went to watch the episode on the C5 player, I was amazed there were no ads at all. Brilliant piece of kit :)
 

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,280
I would have thought one of the reasons to have pcso's present would be to call in real police officers, by radio if required. That would be quicker than the guy calling on his phone having to explain everything to the police call taker. The chavs would still get to overhear.

I doubt it would be that much quicker than just calling the local force - they still have to dispatch officers, however they are contacted. And if the people causing trouble didn't take the hint - sometimes they don't - then you want someone there in a hurry, ie Thames Valley officers in the case shown, as the nearest BTP constables are likely to be some distance away.

Pleased to see on FGW's Facebook page that thus far, people posting positive comments about FGW, the programme and, most importantly, the staff who appeared, far outweigh the predictable moaners.
 
Last edited:

ralphchadkirk

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
5,754
Location
Essex
BTP PCSOs have power of detention, by force if necessary.

And it would be quicker to get units I respond by radio than phoning 999.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,969
The reason is that PCSOs do not have the full powers of arrest that a police constable has. PCSOs' powers do not run much beyond a 'citizen's arrest' to differentiate them from constables, to try to make it look like they aren't policing on the cheap.

The RPI is the person in charge of the operation, not the PCSOs, so it's his call if he wants proper coppers, who would have to be called anyway if things did get out of hand.
You're missing the point. The idea (I'm assuming...) of having the PCSOs there is for an extra presence, and if it kicks off, they are equipped to deal with any public order issues. BTP PCSOs have the power of detention, and also carry handcuffs. If the 'proper' coppers are required, they can quickly be requested by radio and if no BTP Police are available, then the control room can summon TVP if it's really kicking off...
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,840
BTP PCSOs have power of detention, by force if necessary.

And it would be quicker to get units I respond by radio than phoning 999.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk


BTP have the same powers of arrest as any other police officer.

PCSO's have the same powers of arrest as any other member of the public.
 

NotATrainspott

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2013
Messages
3,304
Is the entire series on FGW? The reason I ask is that East Coast have in the last couple of months had posters up on trains advising people that their staff are being filmed for a TV documentary series too?

Sky are doing their own on East Coast. I think the BBC documentary was enough to prove that series about the railways can be popular to the wider audience if they don't concentrate too much on the technical bits and instead focus on the people.

All in all these documentaries are a great idea since a lot of people don't know about just how much time and effort goes in to running their railways and how serious it can be when something goes wrong. I remember the East Coast train driver talking about the suicides she's seen in her time - passengers won't appreciate how hard it is for the driver when it's their trains which have been cancelled or delayed.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,992
Location
UK
BTP have the same powers of arrest as any other police officer.

PCSO's have the same powers of arrest as any other member of the public.

I thought BTP PCSOs had additional powers over normal ones, although they always look pretty useless whenever I see them. They didn't look particularly useful or helpful on the programme either.

Most scrotes will be fully aware of their powers (or lack of).

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
21,197
Location
0035

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,280
You're missing the point. The idea (I'm assuming...) of having the PCSOs there is for an extra presence, and if it kicks off, they are equipped to deal with any public order issues. BTP PCSOs have the power of detention, and also carry handcuffs. If the 'proper' coppers are required, they can quickly be requested by radio and if no BTP Police are available, then the control room can summon TVP if it's really kicking off...

No, I'm not missing the point.

You and I and the RPIs have the same "power of detention" as the PCSOs, so should it become necessary to make an arrest, the PCSOs are no more equipped than the rest of us to deal with that particular "public order issue". It was precisely the implied threat of 'proper coppers' appearing, with full powers of arrest, that finally got the result for the RPI - who, as I said, was the person in charge there and taking the decisions, not the PCSOs.
 

ralphchadkirk

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
5,754
Location
Essex
No, BTP PCSOs have more power than you, I or the rpi. In fact, they have the most power of all the forces PCSOs.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,840
No, BTP PCSOs have more power than you, I or the rpi. In fact, they have the most power of all the forces PCSOs.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

They are not police officers, they can only make a citizens arrest the same as any other Tom Dick or Harry and call for a proper copper.

The clue is in the name Please Come Soon Officer;)
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
21,197
Location
0035
They are not police officers, they can only make a citizens arrest the same as any other Tom Dick or Harry and call for a proper copper.
But as has already been said (and I have linked to the appropriate legislation), PCSOs of the BTP (and some other Police Services) have been granted the power to detain persons, using reasonable force if necessary, for up to 30 Min in certain situations. This power is not available to any old person on the street. You can also see this answered in Q4 / Q5 of the following FoI request: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/s44s60_authorisations_and_pcso_p
 

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,280
But as has already been said (and I have linked to the appropriate legislation), PCSOs of the BTP (and some other Police Services) have been granted the power to detain persons, using reasonable force if necessary, for up to 30 Min in certain situations. This power is not available to any old person on the street. You can also see this answered in Q4 / Q5 of the following FoI request: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/s44s60_authorisations_and_pcso_p

So that would be a glorified citizen's arrest then. The law also allows all of us to use reasonable force in certain circumstances. Like I said, the threat of proper coppers appearing, with their full powers of arrest, was what got the result at Windsor.
 
Last edited:

Quakers Yard

Member
Joined
8 Apr 2013
Messages
217
Location
Edwardsville
Wonder if there will be a feature on stations with almost no services like Pilning and Coombe Junction etc to question what purpose they have and why are they open etc etc. There are more stations of course.
 

SWT_USER

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
1,183
Location
Ashford Middx
Is it standard ATOC policy to give priority to the long distance passengers? Thinking of the point in the program where one of the guys in the control room said there would be no trains at Langley, Iver or West Drayton but that's ok because the long distance passengers (those with expensive season tickets) would be ok. Is this the same when there are two different operators on the line like LM and Virgin - would Virgin be given priority?
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
8,348
Location
Herts
In times of disruption - there are agreed contingency plans for route sections. A balance has to be drawn when route capacity is reduced.

It would not be correct for say one long distance operator to push out another operators slow services if say only 2 tracks vice 4 were available. Admittedly things can get very difficult at times - there is "protection" in the Network code for this , and the ORR can take a very dim view on this. (if protocols are breached) - the terms fair and equitable come to mind ...
 

northern156

Member
Joined
24 Jul 2009
Messages
100
Location
Lancashire
Surely there would be frequent alternative transport available (such as bus services for example) for short-distance passengers so that is why long-distance passengers are given priority because there aren't as many alternatives?
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,992
Location
UK
It is certainly easier to lay on buses for a shorter distance than try and use them for huge distances - where journey times will massively increase.

I wonder what would happen if you asked the passengers that moan what they'd do. Sit them down, show them all the options then make them make a decision and say why. I bet very quickly many would go 'Oh, I didn't think of it like that' and start to understand.

For one, they wouldn't simply think you could still squeeze everything through with 50% of the capacity as I am sure they do now.
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,969
You and I and the RPIs have the same "power of detention" as the PCSOs, so should it become necessary to make an arrest, the PCSOs are no more equipped than the rest of us to deal with that particular "public order issue". It was precisely the implied threat of 'proper coppers' appearing, with full powers of arrest, that finally got the result for the RPI - who, as I said, was the person in charge there and taking the decisions, not the PCSOs.
As has been said, the PCSOs have the additional power to detain whilst they await a Police Officer. The RPI has the power under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 to do the same, but only if the detainee has not paid their fare, and is refusing to supply their name and address. But obviously, his TOC would frown upon him 'arresting' people....I'd imagine, given the likely implications this can cause.

The PCSOs also have additional methods of dealing with situations in certain circumstances that other staff do not have, such as the issuing of PNDs. I know from experience that it's not always the threat of Police being called that makes people comply, but the hi-vis jacket that looks like that of a Police Officer's.

The point I was trying to make was that the PCSOs were presumably there as extra assistance for issues such as these. They have a direct, immediate radio link with BTP control, and as such, if 'proper coppers' were needed, it would have been easier for them to get involved in the first instance, even if the RPI's phone call was a blag. It should never have got to the point where the RPI felt the need to either genuinely call, or pretend to call the local Police.
 
Last edited:

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,992
Location
UK
How many people still 'fall' for the hi-vis jacket of a PCSO that looks like that of a real police officer?

I am sure it's good to convince (con?) law abiding people that there's more visible policing, but I'm less sure that the criminals and lowlifes are fooled - or are particularly scared.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
19,375
Location
Yorkshire
One conclusion I drew from the first episode was that if HSTs are to continue being used on Cornish services, those Chiltern-style power-doors can't come quickly enough!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top