The problem with Voyagers

[Mogz]

I travel on these trains daily and have come to the conclusion that the problems complained of are not so much in the concept, but the execution.

Principally:

1. The seats are absolutely fine, it’s the high density layout with poor leg room in which they are squashed in with very few tables that’s the problem. A better mix of tables and airline style with better leg room (ie fewer seats per coach) would make for a much nicer travelling environment.

2. The coaches themselves are well designed for long distance travel. They are reliable, and have large windows and plenty of PRM compliant toilets. The problem is that there are too few coaches on them!

A 9 or 10 car Voyager with better leg-room, more tables, another large-luggage storage area and (dare I say it) a buffet offering offering hot meals would actually offer a very fine travelling experience to the long distance passenger with (mostly) the same equipment as at present.

Turning them bi-mode or having them electro-hauled under the wires would also be better for the environment, but that’s probably asking far too much...

With a software upgrade of some sort so that they can talk to one another, could the cascaded 222 Meridians be physically integrated to 220/221 stock to lengthen the Voyagers?
+ Quote

 

[StephenHunter]

Isn't there an issue with the smell coming from the toilets?

 

[DarloRich]

You actually got a seat?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[greatvoyager]

Isn't there an issue with the smell coming from the toilets?

Yes there is, but it looks like they aren't in any rush to fix it.

 

[greatvoyager]

I travel on these trains daily and have come to the conclusion that the problems complained of are not so much in the concept, but the execution.

Principally:

1. The seats are absolutely fine, it’s the high density layout with poor leg room in which they are squashed in with very few tables that’s the problem. A better mix of tables and airline style with better leg room (ie fewer seats per coach) would make for a much nicer travelling environment.

2. The coaches themselves are well designed for long distance travel. They are reliable, and have large windows and plenty of PRM compliant toilets. The problem is that there are too few coaches on them!

A 9 or 10 car Voyager with better leg-room, more tables, another large-luggage storage area and (dare I say it) a buffet offering offering hot meals would actually offer a very fine travelling experience to the long distance passenger with (mostly) the same equipment as at present.

Turning them bi-mode or having them electro-hauled under the wires would also be better for the environment, but that’s probably asking far too much...

With a software upgrade of some sort so that they can talk to one another, could the cascaded 222 Meridians be physically integrated to 220/221 stock to lengthen the Voyagers?

Apart from the software, it would also depend on the Meridians/Voyagers coming under the control of the same leasing company.

 

[Mogz]

You actually got a seat?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Not always, and that’s just the problem.

The trains that used to be on these routes were either HSTs or loco hauled 47 or 86 sets of Mk2 air conditioned stock running to between 6 and 10 coaches, as I recall. They were old and not very frequent but very comfortable.

Now they’re just too short and the seats are packed in too tight. It’s no longer a pleasurable experience- just a case of packing in as many people as possible into a 4 or 5 car unit.

Lengthen the trains
Increase the leg room
Restore the facilities...

And you have a very reliable train with large picture windows that has comfortable seats and decent on board catering. Just what you want for some of the UK’s longest journeys!

 

[swt_passenger]

...With a software upgrade of some sort so that they can talk to one another, could the cascaded 222 Meridians be physically integrated to 220/221 stock to lengthen the Voyagers?

Of course they could, if someone pays enough. But you’ll find it’s been a regular topic in all the existing threads about 220, 221 and 222 of which there are many, eg this one:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-of-22x-units.167576/
I’d be very interested in anything new about Voyagers, but I’m afraid it’ll be impossible to find...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Increase the leg room
Restore the facilities...

Out of interest have you been in Coach D on an Avanti set? That is almost all tables aligned with the windows and is a rather different environment to the others.

 

[hexagon789]

Out of interest have you been in Coach D on an Avanti set? That is almost all tables aligned with the windows and is a rather different environment to the others.

Isn't that because Virgin made it a First Class overspill on North Wales services for a period rather than by design?

 

[Mogz]

Out of interest have you been in Coach D on an Avanti set? That is almost all tables aligned with the windows and is a rather different environment to the others.

Yes. They were done ages ago when it was Virgin. I believe the idea was that it could sometimes be used as a First Class overflow coach but in practice has nearly always been Standard. They all align with the windows too. It shows what could be achieved with the Voyager.

Hence my feeling that it’s not the stock or the seating that are inherently problematic, but the way the seating is packed in and they’re just too darn short!

In terms of the table/airline mix, I think that the IET gets it about right. Either that or the middle coach of a 175 unit where they align perfectly with the windows!

 

[Djgr]

I think Voyagers have passed their half life.

For that reason alone nothing is going to happen to address the dog's dinner legacy execution issues.

 

[Grecian 1998]

Operation Thor was considered some years ago to add electric vehicles to Voyagers to effectively make them bi-modes. It didn't happen. It won't happen now.

Production of Voyagers ceased in 2002. Building new vehicles is almost certainly less cost-effective than building new trains.

XC might at some point in the next few years get the WC Voyagers and or some Meridians. If the franchise ever gets re-let and we're really lucky, the DfT might specify some class 802s have to be ordered. Until then, the most common sight on the 'classic' XC network will continue to be trains with 174 standard class seats.

 

[greatvoyager]

Operation Thor was considered some years ago to add electric vehicles to Voyagers to effectively make them bi-modes. It didn't happen. It won't happen now.

Production of Voyagers ceased in 2002. Building new vehicles is almost certainly less cost-effective than building new trains.

XC might at some point in the next few years get the WC Voyagers and or some Meridians. If the franchise ever gets re-let and we're really lucky, the DfT might specify some class 802s have to be ordered. Until then, the most common sight on the 'classic' XC network will continue to be trains with 174 standard class seats.

Project Omega was also considered, which apart from seeing a few new routes, would've also seen the 4-car 220 and 221 units extended to 5-car and have coach b in common with the other units.

 

[greatvoyager]

Isn't that because Virgin made it a First Class overspill on North Wales services for a period rather than by design?

Yes, it was to be first class on North Wales services and standard class on the other services.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Lengthen the trains
Increase the leg room
Restore the facilities

Funny how the amount of carriages and legroom can drastically affect people's opinion of a train. If the Voyagers were like you mention I'm almost certain people would look upon them fondly. Dare I say they'd be miles better than an 80x.

 

[Mogz]

Funny how the amount of carriages and legroom can drastically affect people's opinion of a train. If the Voyagers were like you mention I'm almost certain people would look upon them fondly. Dare I say they'd be miles better than an 80x.

Indeed. I remember the first time I travelled on a 222 and couldn’t believe the difference that was possible on what was (essentially) the same type of train!