The Pope

[starrymarkb]

The Pope is to resign - the first to do so for almost 600 years.

Any chance of putting a Moderate in the position?

 

[NSEFAN]

The official reason being given is that he feels that he is too old. I wonder how it will take for scandals to start emerging?

 

[W.Tregurtha]

I rather suspect that there's church politics in action here. There doesn't seem to be a lot of difference between the Italian Roman Cathlic church and the Italian Mafia.

 

[Giugiaro]

I wonder who is there in the roman church that is fitted to be Pope, on this modern era where there is a need of someone who can talk wisely for the good of everyone and put the people and the religion first on their actions instead of the church solely.

I believe that one of the things that a new Pope would made me proud would be the open dialogue of the different Christian churches, now that we're commemorating 50 years of the II Vatican Council, at least strengthen the bonds between christians and solve most problems that are still around between different churches.
It's unacceptable in these days to have conflicts, prejudice and misunderstandings between people that, though having the same beliefs, follow different churches.

The history of the Roman Christian Church is covered with war, corruption, manipulation and misleading practices, most because of a overpowered church leaded by humans that, although educated in a religious environment throughout their life, would succumb to they're true nature (and no one else would do nothing, because of obvious reasons).
The Vatican has gone through a good way in the past 50 years, but there is still room to a lot of changes.

Mind if I ask, would it be good for the Vatican to have a parliament composed of normal christians, somehow like constitutional monarchies?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

He seemed rather too old when he was first elected and it is no surprise whatsoever that he finds the task too onerous now that he is in his mid-80's.

I wonder from what part of the world his successor will hail from.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Must he 'resign'? It makes it sound somewhat more suspicious than simply retiring...

 

[Liam]

While I think he probably does feel he is too old, I cannot help but think there might be an underlying reason for this.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The official reason being given is that he feels that he is too old. I wonder how it will take for scandals to start emerging?

Do you have any such matters in mind, since you have brought up the matter ?

Do I take it that you feel 85 years of age is not really too old, as it was he himself who made the point in the middle of a general statement being made? I do not recall it being what you said as "the official reason being given", as this would suggest a formal statement given out by the Vatican.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I don't think anyone would deny the Pope is ageing and it is a factor, however it doesn't mean it's an exclusive factor. I think that is also broadly what NSEFAN means.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't think anyone would deny the Pope is ageing and it is a factor, however it doesn't mean it's an exclusive factor. I think that is also broadly what NSEFAN means.

From what I understood what the Pope had said, it was the toll that the age of 85 had taken on his body and he was honest enough to admit that matters had reached a stage that he could not have the strength to fully carry out the fully expected remit of his duties in his current infirm situation. It is surely to be expected that the age of 85 does naturally affect the human constitution. I have seen elderly relatives in both my family and my wife's family be not at all to be the same people they once were, when they reached their mid-80's.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm not saying it doesn't (I even admitted that it couldn't be denied!), however it doesn't mean it is the sole reason.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Must he 'resign'? It makes it sound somewhat more suspicious than simply retiring...

Will he now be taken to The Village so that we can try to find out why he resigned?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Will he now be taken to The Village so that we can try to find out why he resigned?

.....or even reconvene a celebrity version of the Spanish Inquisition...hock:

 

[PaxVobiscum]

OK then, here we go:
"I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition..."

 

[Peter Mugridge]

He seemed rather too old when he was first elected and it is no surprise whatsoever that he finds the task too onerous now that he is in his mid-80's.

When he was elected, the word in the press was that it was a deliberate choice to pick an elderly Cardinal because the Church apparently did not want another prolonged Papacy.

Well, he's done 8 years which, given his age at election, isn't bad and is probably a lot longer than any of the other Cardinals expected. Does anyone know what the average length of a Papacy is?

 

[NSEFAN]

Do you have any such matters in mind, since you have brought up the matter ?

Do I take it that you feel 85 years of age is not really too old, as it was he himself who made the point in the middle of a general statement being made? I do not recall it being what you said as "the official reason being given", as this would suggest a formal statement given out by the Vatican.

Did the Pope himself not say that he is too old? That's about as official as it's going to get, seeing that the Pope is supposedly in charge of the organisation he runs.

I have come to expect that if a head of state (or other important person) steps down out of the blue, it tends to mean they are running as fast as they can before some awful scandal hits the press. I have no idea if that's the case here, but then we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have come to expect that if a head of state (or other important person) steps down out of the blue, it tends to mean they are running as fast as they can before some awful scandal hits the press. I have no idea if that's the case here, but then we'll just have to wait and see.

If that is the case, using your logic concerning a head of state, you need to look no further than the Netherlands where the 74 year old Queen Beatrix has decided to abdicate. Her mother, Queen Juliana also abdicated. Can you let us know what "awful scandals" they were "running away from".

 

[Clip]

He was probably too overwhelmed at using twitter.

 

[ainsworth74]

If that is the case, using your logic concerning a head of state, you need to look no further than the Netherlands where the 74 year old Queen Beatrix has decided to abdicate. Her mother, Queen Juliana also abdicated. Can you let us know what "awful scandals" they were "running away from".

The difference there is that it has become both a tradition and effectively to be expected that the Head of State of that nation will stand down and let their younger heir take over. Meanwhile this is the first time in nearly 600 years that a Pope has resigned and no expectation or tradition has been developed over the last few decades of them doing so due to old age.

This isn't to suggest I believe that some massive scandal will break about him, but I can certainly see why some people are thinking that there might be.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

This isn't to suggest I believe that some massive scandal will break about him, but I can certainly see why some people are thinking that there might be.

Had he been advising his financiers to invest in HMV, National Express and a raft of Italian businesses and authorities which, unlike those two, have not enjoyed any kind of 'salvation', financial nor spiritural?

Most recently, the legendary and iconic Tuscan Cermaics designer Richard Ginori went under. Bank Network froze the accounts of its 30,000 investors last year. Italy is in a spiral of contagious bankruptcy and the Church has great wealth in many asset forms. Its hard to imagine that the two cannot be linked.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This isn't to suggest I believe that some massive scandal will break about him, but I can certainly see why some people are thinking that there might be.

I am finding it somewhat difficult to find out the stated reasons why both Pope Celestine V (1294) and Pope Gregory XII (1415) also chose to announce their premature termination of their papacies. I have sent an e-mail to the English College in Rome with regard to obtaining full details from their theological archivist, rather than to consider the somewhat doubtful details that sometimes are found on Google.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

From todays Guardian - might help (tho' don't know their sources!)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/shortcuts/2013/feb/11/can-the-pope-resign?intcmp=239

Can the pope resign?

Popes can, and do, resign – and sometimes for irredeemably outrageous reasons. Take Pope Benedict IX …

The second longest-serving pope in history, John Paul II, who died in office in 2005 at the age of 84, has rather habituated us of late to the idea that popes are expected to carry on until they pop off. And it is true that while diocesan bishops must resign once they reach 75 and cardinals can no longer join a conclave past 80, no such rules apply to the Bishop of Rome and Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church (to name just two of his titles).

But popes can, and do, resign. Not often, but they do. Back in 1045, the irredeemably outrageous Benedict IX – the only man to be pope more than once, and the only one ever to sell the papacy – stepped down, essentially for the cash. Accused by St Peter Damian of "feasting on immorality", by Bishop Benno of Piacenza of committing "many vile adulteries and murders" and by Pope Victor III of being a pope "so vile, so foul, so execrable, that I shudder to think of it," Benedict ostensibly resigned to get married – but not before he had sold the office to his godfather, who became Gregory VI (and had to resign himself the following year because, even by the standards of the 11th century, buying the papacy wasn't really on).

More edifying is the case of Celestine V in 1294. A former Benedictine hermit, Celestine had never wanted to be pope. After a mere five months in office he issued a solemn decree declaring it permissible for a pope to resign and then promptly did so himself ...

 

[NSEFAN]

If that is the case, using your logic concerning a head of state, you need to look no further than the Netherlands where the 74 year old Queen Beatrix has decided to abdicate. Her mother, Queen Juliana also abdicated. Can you let us know what "awful scandals" they were "running away from".

I honestly have no idea. It is pure speculation. I don't believe for one moment that any head of state is particularly squeaky clean, but then that's just my rather ignorant opinion.

 

[12CSVT]

I'd say the fact that he is 85 is a good enough reason to step down.

Perhaps he didn't want a repeat of the situation with John Paul II who was in too poor health to do his job effectively for many years before he passed away in 2005.

 

[gswindale]

Does anyone know what the average length of a Papacy is?

Assuming we start with St Peter in 33AD, we have so far had 265 Popes in 1980 years which gives a mean length of Papacy at just under 7.5 years.

 

[Clip]

I am finding it somewhat difficult to find out the stated reasons why both Pope Celestine V (1294) and Pope Gregory XII (1415) also chose to announce their premature termination of their papacies. I have sent an e-mail to the English College in Rome with regard to obtaining full details from their theological archivist, rather than to consider the somewhat doubtful details that sometimes are found on Google.

Paul, I think most people are hinting at something else because of the terrible things that have happened from within the Catholic church. From reading the posts I think they are pretty much tittilation rather than them wanting it to be a full blown Jimmy Savile-esque escapade.

 

[Whistler40145]

Why is the Pope elected at an advanced age, well over the normal age of retirement?

Is it never considered to appoint a Pope under the age of 65?

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

His predecessor, Pope John Paul II, was 58 years of age when he was elected to the papacy in 1978.

 

[Whistler40145]

I should have got my facts right on this subject, but as I am not very religious, this is an oversight.

What I should have said is that instead of the Pope still being in office at 85, should there be an upper age limit?

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

 

[185]

Paul, I think most people are hinting at something else because of the terrible things that have happened from within the Catholic church. From reading the posts I think they are pretty much tittilation rather than them wanting it to be a full blown Jimmy Savile-esque escapade.

It'll only be a matter of hours before a viral video of the pope with the Benny Hill music appears on youtube.