The 'Parkway' suffix problem

[Bletchleyite]

I'll admit I do prefer the German approach of one clearly named Hbf and those not in the city centre having the city name prefix in a small font. That said, DB do include a wider set of stations - we would for instance have Manchester Stockport, and London Clapham Junction.

 

[sheff1]

It would not be Manchester Stockport. It would be Stockport Main or Central (Hbf). Look at the station naming in the Ruhrgebiet which, adminstratively, is a similar region to Greater Manchester.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would not be Manchester Stockport. It would be Stockport Main or Central (Hbf). Look at the station naming in the Ruhrgebiet which, adminstratively, is a similar region to Greater Manchester.

Fair point, it was more of an example of how far out the prefixing goes in Germany.

We would *certainly* have Edinburgh Haymarket. TBH, I think we should.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway was a name I never really understood as the station was some distance from Mansfield and for a large part of the town Chesterfield was the closest station plus going Mansfield to/from Alfreton on the A38 is a challenge in itself.

bit of a subterfuge to imply that Mansfield had a station ...

when the RHL reopened , didn't A+MP suddenly just become 'Alfreton'

 

[GatwickDepress]

I'll admit I do prefer the German approach of one clearly named Hbf and those not in the city centre having the city name prefix in a small font. That said, DB do include a wider set of stations - we would for instance have Manchester Stockport, and London Clapham Junction.

...but then if we followed that naming structure you'd have trouble explaining to someone that a ticket routed "not via London" is valid via Clapham Junction!

 

[route:oxford]

Kidlington, on the other hand, can't be confused with anywhere else, and is better known. So 'Kidlington Oxford Parkway' could work.

Then the Parish Council would have a strop.

It would have to be "Kidlington & Gosford Parkway"

Change here for express bus services to London-Oxford Airport, Summertown & Headington.

 

[fairysdad]

This !

When i lived in Barnstaple I used Tiverton Parkway. Most people called it Tiverton anyway. It really isn't an issue.

... or people just call it 'Parkway'! Never seems to be by its full name, even when getting a ticket from Barnstaple station, I've heard it called simply that, by both customers and staff!

Quite possibly because of using that station for years while growing up, it seems to be the definition of a parkway station for me: a station with good parking and good road access. It means that whenever I hear of a station with the suffix 'Parkway', that's what I think of - not necessarily its location in relation to its name (although TVP is a good half of the distance from Tiverton than I am!).

 

[charley_17/7]

Ah, sorry for confusing the issue. I did think you were talking about a station, but if not then there's no real problem.

There isn't a station at present, but stakeholders (including Milton Keynes Council) have suggested one is built, should the SW extension of MK get approved.

 

[Radedamer]

I've got to say I don't like the Parkway naming idea, although it's hardly a major point. It does seem to be inconsistently applied, certainly.
Didcot Parkway: well it's the only station in Didcot, it's pretty central and it doesn't, as far as I've noticed, have a huge car park (never had to park there so might be wrong). Might as well just be called Didcot.
Bristol Parkway: not central when opened though the city's expanded massively in that direction since. Has a very large car park. Serves mostly intercity routes. Seems parkway-like.
Tewkesbury Parkway: doesn't exist under this name! But there are people who want Ashchurch to be renamed. Would seem sensible in that probably most passengers are heading to/from Tewkesbury and not many people would know where Ashchurch is. Doesn't seem to have a huge car park but certainly isn't central to Tewkesbury.

I used to get Bristol Parkway confused with the nearby station and district of Patchway! (before I lived in Bristol, as I do now – quite a long time ago, really.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

There isn't a station at present, but stakeholders (including Milton Keynes Council) have suggested one is built, should the SW extension of MK get approved.

Interestingly, while Water Eaton does appear on the OS map the term is not used locally - it's the Lakes Estate or Eaton Mill estate depending on which bit.

A bit like "Aintree Village" which in the locals' eyes does not exist and never did - it's the Old Roan (named after the pub by the station).

 

[Starmill]

Bristol Parkway was the first one. It was such a success (must be in the top 20 on main line stations on the old Western Region) that the others came in on its coat tails. Invariably known in the local area just as "Parkway", just as the main Bristol station has always been known in the city and surroundings as just "Temple Meads".

Bristol Parkway was the first one with it in its name - but New Pudsey was (I think...) the first station built as a 'Parkway'.

The fact that a lot of people nowadays might not think of New Pudsey as a Parkway (along with the local urbanisation) is testament to the truth of your second sentence!

 

[W-on-Sea]

Didcot Parkway: well it's the only station in Didcot, it's pretty central and it doesn't, as far as I've noticed, have a huge car park (never had to park there so might be wrong). Might as well just be called Didcot.

On the car park point - it has several "official" car parks, one of which is close to being huge, and, moreover, there are numerous private carparks very close-by, which presumably are for the benefit of commuters using the station (and which seem to be well-used). And potentially it serves a wide area - from (at least) Wallingford in the east to (at least) Wantage in the west, and also Abingdon (which is sometimes claimed to be the largest separate town in southern of England without a railway station) is nearby too - sure, Radley station is nearer to Abingdon, but it only has slow local trains, while Oxford may not be much further - but road access within Oxford is less than great.

Google satellite view should illustrate the point about the car parks https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.611946,-1.2458204,725m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en - the huge one is the one to the north-west of the station, accessed via Foxhall Road (and accessed on foot by a bridge from platform 1), there are two smaller "official car parks" next to the station buildings, while private ones are the two to the south of Station Road.


So, while being close to the town centre makes it an exception to the usual rule, the parking aspect is presumably what led to the station being renamed as Didcot Parkway when it was rebuilt in the mid-1980s... The sense that the station serves not just (or even particularly) Didcot, but rather anywhere within driving range of Didcot probably justifies the name, I'd say.

 

[Radedamer]

Both good points, especially the area served. I must say every time I've used Didcot Parkway station my destination has not been Didcot – it's been variously Abingdon, Thame, Watlington...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Park and ride was mentioned somewhere. As I understand them, P&R and Parkway are two very different concepts. P&R serves people from surrounding areas and also distant towns, who drive to the edge of their destination town and then catch a train or bus to the centre. They tend to be established by LAs with the primary purpose of reducing congestion and making the town attractive to both leisure and business visitors.

Parkways, in their 'classic' form, are almost the opposite. People will drive from surrounding areas but also from the town centre to catch a train (possibly an express coach) to a distant place. People don't tend to drive to them from beyond that town's 'catchment area' because there would be a nearer station, whereas park and ride users might have driven any distance.

So P&R takes outsiders in whereas Parkways take insiders out!

 

[DarloRich]

... or people just call it 'Parkway'! Never seems to be by its full name, even when getting a ticket from Barnstaple station, I've heard it called simply that, by both customers and staff!

Quite possibly because of using that station for years while growing up, it seems to be the definition of a parkway station for me: a station with good parking and good road access. It means that whenever I hear of a station with the suffix 'Parkway', that's what I think of - not necessarily its location in relation to its name (although TVP is a good half of the distance from Tiverton than I am!).

exactly - the full name was never used. It always frustrated me to have to drive over the top on the A361 to Barnstaple although it was quicker than staying on the train to Exeter

 

[didcotdean]

Didcot is a very different place to what it was in 1985 when the station was renamed. Its current population is now only about 15% less than Abingdon-on-Thames and quite possibly will overtake it within 10 years.

The station area will look even more central to the town if/when the Didcot Gateway development is built which will sweep away everything on the other side of Station Road opposite the station and for some distance each side, with a mixture of housing, leisure, plus retail facilities and a hotel.

This will mean the two 'private' car parks will be gone - although both are privately operated, one is on land on a short term lease from South Oxfordshire DC, acquired for the development. Hence the need to build a multi storey on the Foxhall car park to double its capacity. Whilst that is being built parking will mainly be at a temporary affair on fields north of Didcot connected by bus. This will be a sort of P&R to the station.

 

[Michael.Y]

Come late to this thread but I must point out to the person who suggested renaming Bristol Parkway to Bristol North that Bristol Parkway isn't in Bristol.

Calling it Stoke Gifford Interchange may present some further problems however.

 

[dharkhig]

Indeed.

South Gloucestershire South would perhaps be a more accurate name for it than Bristol North.

 

[Radedamer]

If you're going to claim it isn't in Bristol, then do you suggest calling it South Gloucestershire Parkway (or South Glos Junction or something)? And then renaming it following the next local government reorganisation, and the one after that, and...

(not that it was my suggestion to rename it Bristol North, or anything else)

 

[miami]

Howabout naming every station based on it's grid reference? ST624795 makes just as much sense and "Hicksville Road Junction"

 

[HowardGWR]

If you're going to claim it isn't in Bristol, then do you suggest calling it South Gloucestershire Parkway (or South Glos Junction or something)? And then renaming it following the next local government reorganisation, and the one after that, and...

(not that it was my suggestion to rename it Bristol North, or anything else)

I did offer Stoke Gifford as well, IIRC. How about "Bradley Stoke Road"?

 

[colchesterken]

How about Stratford and Ebbsfleet international, Not very international

 

[Bald Rick]

How about Stratford and Ebbsfleet international, Not very international

Ebbsfleet does have the notable characteristic of international trains calling there.

Stratford I'll grant you. But then there is Birmingham International...

 

[TheNewNo2]

If you're going to claim it isn't in Bristol, then do you suggest calling it South Gloucestershire Parkway (or South Glos Junction or something)? And then renaming it following the next local government reorganisation, and the one after that, and...

(not that it was my suggestion to rename it Bristol North, or anything else)

Well it's never actually been in Bristol - OTOMH, it was opened in Gloucestershire, stuck in Avon within a year or two, then armed out to South Gloucestershire in the 90s. It is however without doubt now in the Bristol conurbation.

I say leave it as it is - it is still a park and ride station for central Bristol, plus renamings are a right pain.

 

[Radedamer]

Well it's never actually been in Bristol - OTOMH, it was opened in Gloucestershire, stuck in Avon within a year or two, then armed out to South Gloucestershire in the 90s. It is however without doubt now in the Bristol conurbation.

I say leave it as it is - it is still a park and ride station for central Bristol, plus renamings are a right pain.

Absolutely!

(And on the subject of stations called 'Somewhere Rd' meaning 'on the road leading to Somewhere', it's at least as inconsistently applied as Parkway. Unless St Andrew's is not a town in Scotland but Avonmouth docks?!!!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well it's never actually been in Bristol - OTOMH, it was opened in Gloucestershire, stuck in Avon within a year or two, then armed out to South Gloucestershire in the 90s. It is however without doubt now in the Bristol conurbation.

I say leave it as it is - it is still a park and ride station for central Bristol, plus renamings are a right pain.

Absolutely!

(And on the subject of stations called 'Somewhere Rd' meaning 'on the road leading to Somewhere', it's at least as inconsistently applied as Parkway. Unless St Andrew's is not a town in Scotland but Avonmouth docks?!!! )

 

[cornishjohn]

Didcot Parkway: well it's the only station in Didcot, it's pretty central and it doesn't, as far as I've noticed, have a huge car park

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/DID/details.html says 1127 places. Biggest station car park I have used. Way bigger than Bodmin Parkway.

 

[QueensCurve]

Ebbsfleet does have the notable characteristic of international trains calling there.

Stratford I'll grant you. But then there is Birmingham International...

Birmingham International is the classic example of an "International" station with no international services. For that reason the name must change.

 

[The Planner]

Except as you probably know, that wasn't the reason for calling it that though was it. I have no doubt once someone coughs up the cash to get it changed it will do so, as it stands the Airport and NEC don't seem willing to open their wallets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Except as you probably know, that wasn't the reason for calling it that though was it. I have no doubt once someone coughs up the cash to get it changed it will do so, as it stands the Airport and NEC don't seem willing to open their wallets.

I'm not clear why they should pay when the primary benefit of renaming it is avoidance of confusion to rail passengers. The problem is people thinking it's "Birmingham Hbf" and incurring delay by alighting early, not people failing to get off there when they want the airport or NEC.

 

[The Planner]

They are the ones that want it changed so why shouldnt they pay? What benefit does NR get from spending the time and money of sorting their side of it? Are there actually any real figures of how many are confused and get off early? I suspect it really isnt that many.

 

[jimm]

Birmingham International is the classic example of an "International" station with no international services. For that reason the name must change.

And what do you suggest changing it to?

Birmingham Airport? So what about the NEC? The managers of which throw a hissy fit whenever the idea of calling the station after the airport is raised.

Birmingham Airport and National Exhibition Centre hardly trips off the tongue, does it?

In my experience, train managers on long-distance services approaching from the Coventry direction have been pretty good for many years at making clear International serves the airport and NEC and emphasising that New Street is the station for the city centre.

I'd agree with The Planner that the number of people who get off at International when they want New Street is likely to be pretty small in any case and with the frequency of trains, it's not as if anyone is going to have to wait long once they realise their mistake.