The Olympics

[MidnightFlyer]

Would the same not also apply to China ?

I wouldn't say so, China is generally going well for itself, it's just struggling under the downside of a one child policy - almost every aspect in India socially is nowhere near as positive. Further, I believe China do have quite a focus on sport, outside of cricket India has never fully struck me as a nation where sport a massive part of their lives or of society, certainly development of it isn't.
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Looking on my Twitter I can see the following tweets from people that some people that I know follow: it is both hilarious and angering in equal measure. (Edited so they can't be traced.) I just thought these have to be shared. This is why pride I think should be taken in quite conservative measures. Note the startling hypocracy in 2 and 4 / 5. My sincere apologies for the language, and the content. I will remove them shortly.

Still annoyed at those b*starding [sic] Japanese in the ... men's event

That Riley ... is actually disgusting he should be locked up for what he said. ...

Why do japan care what medal they get, they can hardly see it anyway!

jap slit eyed C*NTS

Set of c*nts, like I always said, death to Japan and China,...

 

[SS4]

To be fair Butts I think India have a lot bigger worries than the Olympics, like sorting out their massively increasing population, poverty, overcrowding, horrific living conditions, ongoing religious conflict. I would hope these get priority over ensuring they do well at the Olympics.

Gettting the lights back on is the short term goal but yes I would agree with that. Some things are more important than the Olympics (which is what we'll be told if we don't do well)

 

[Mojo]

Did anyone catch the Badminton earlier? Both Chinese and South Korean women apparently trying to lose to avoid having to play the semi-final against each other. Even the boos from the spectators didn't seem to put them off.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-...ympic-badminton-match/4168478/?site=newcastle

 

[Butts]

I wouldn't say so, China is generally going well for itself, it's just struggling under the downside of a one child policy - almost every aspect in India socially is nowhere near as positive. Further, I believe China do have quite a focus on sport, outside of cricket India has never fully struck me as a nation where sport a massive part of their lives or of society, certainly development of it isn't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Looking on my Twitter I can see the following tweets from people that some people that I know follow: it is both hilarious and angering in equal measure. (Edited so they can't be traced.) I just thought these have to be shared. This is why pride I think should be taken in quite conservative measures. Note the startling hypocracy in 2 and 4 / 5. My sincere apologies for the language, and the content. I will remove them shortly.

With regard to the Twitter comments the author was obviously raised on a diet of "Commando Books" and publications such as "Victor and Valiant" in the sixties and seventies.

If you remove the expletives this is exactly the portrayal of the Japanese that was prevalent in popular culture.
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Well, I think he beats Frank Bough and David COleman on the appearance front!



I wasn't impressed with him at all yesterday.

Can I just say Hazel Irvine is emerging from the shadows as a competent Olympic Presenter.

She has emerged from the old days when she was just a "bit player" to the very forefront of BBC Sport.

 

[Johnuk123]

Did anyone catch the Badminton earlier? Both Chinese and South Korean women apparently trying to lose to avoid having to play the semi-final against each other. Even the boos from the spectators didn't seem to put them off.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-...ympic-badminton-match/4168478/?site=newcastle

The teams were disqualified by the referee but after apparent disquiet by the Olympic committee were reinstated.

Obviously they didn't want the top teams chucked out, didn't matter that they were cheating.

 

[Seacook]

The teams were disqualified by the referee but after apparent disquiet by the Olympic committee were reinstated.

Obviously they didn't want the top teams chucked out, didn't matter that they were cheating.

Both pairs had already qualified, so the result of the match did not matter. If they had played all out for a meaningless win and sustained injuries it would have damaged their chances of winning the event. In athletics, the competitors gain no advantage by winning a heat so you often see runners slowing down once they are confident of not being eliminated - the serious racing can easily be for fourth place.

The problem lies with badly designed tournament rules; if every match should matter, then play a straight elimination, or double elimination. It is not cheating to use the conditions in order to improve your chances of winning.

 

[Johnuk123]

Both pairs had already qualified, so the result of the match did not matter. If they had played all out for a meaningless win and sustained injuries it would have damaged their chances of winning the event. In athletics, the competitors gain no advantage by winning a heat so you often see runners slowing down once they are confident of not being eliminated - the serious racing can easily be for fourth place.

The problem lies with badly designed tournament rules; if every match should matter, then play a straight elimination, or double elimination. It is not cheating to use the conditions in order to improve your chances of winning.

Match fixing is totally wrong and certainly not in any Olympic spirit.

Gali Emms who probably knows a little bit more than you do about badminton said the following :

"This is the Olympic Games, if badminton wants to save face I personally feel they should disqualify the four pairs and re-instate the pairs who came third and fourth in the group and then have a better competition.

"You cannot do this in an Olympic Games, this is something that is not acceptable and it just makes not only our sport but the organisers and the poor crowd who had to watch, who pay good money to watch two matches....it was just disgraceful, absolutely disgraceful.
"I would disqualify them."

 

[SS4]

Match fixing is totally wrong and certainly not in any Olympic spirit.

Gali Emms who probably knows a little bit more than you do about badminton said the following :

"This is the Olympic Games, if badminton wants to save face I personally feel they should disqualify the four pairs and re-instate the pairs who came third and fourth in the group and then have a better competition.

"You cannot do this in an Olympic Games, this is something that is not acceptable and it just makes not only our sport but the organisers and the poor crowd who had to watch, who pay good money to watch two matches....it was just disgraceful, absolutely disgraceful.
"I would disqualify them."

Except it's not match fixing - that is when a (secretly) pre-determined result is obtained through foul means. In this case both teams were playing to lose instead of playing to win - a tactical and strategic choice.

 

[chris89]

Just got the first gold of the Games. From the women's pair rowing

Congrats to the both of them.

Chris

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't think there is such an issue if the pairs had simply been playing within themselves. Why should they go all out in a game that doesn't matter (not that I think it's particularly) good either)? The problem is that they were deliberately trying to lose, it's a key difference and totally unacceptable.

As for Team GB? That is all.

 

[gswindale]

Both pairs had already qualified, so the result of the match did not matter.

The result did matter though. The way the Chinese played was to get both pairs into the final rather than the semis.

 

[Johnuk123]

Except it's not match fixing - that is when a (secretly) pre-determined result is obtained through foul means. In this case both teams were playing to lose instead of playing to win - a tactical and strategic choice.

All the 8 players now thrown out.

Your idea that it isn't match fixing seems to be rather out of step with every single media outlet.

Here is just a small selection:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...l-says-former-Team-GB-Olympian-Gail-Emms.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/olympics/...to-lose-to-get-easier-next-round-7997228.html

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/officials-probe-olympic-badminton-match-205523568.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/us-oly-badm-bdwdob-group-day-idUSBRE86U1NA20120731

http://www.businessinsider.com/badminton-players-face-extremely-serious-match-fixing-charge-2012-8

 

[jon0844]

That's good news.

What signals would you send out for future generations of sportsmen and women? It might not be cheating or match fixing, but it's not sporting.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Going back to my earlier posting about the BBC having their own agenda about the young Chinese female swimmer who had put in a remarkable performance, when all the BBC could do was make sneering and fatuous comments about the validity of the swim, constantly suggesting the use of drugs to enable this to happen, I have just watched the two mid-20's women from Britain in the women's pairs have the most amazing start and led the race from start to finish to win the gold medal.

Not a hint of such negativity from the BBC with regards to this paricular gold medal, even though the dominance of the two British female rowers was clear to see to anyone watching the race live. I wonder why the BBC have changed tack when a similar outstanding win in a final occurred.

Any forum members with other observations on this matter ?

 

[Oswyntail]

....Not a hint of such negativity from the BBC with regards to this paricular gold medal, even though the dominance of the two British female rowers was clear to see to anyone watching the race live. I wonder why the BBC have changed tack when a similar outstanding win in a final occurred.

Any forum members with other observations on this matter ?

The British win was by the two dominant competitors in their event this year, who were widely expected to dominate and win - which they did.
But i do agree that there is too much crying "drugs" - and hounding innocent sportsmen - when there is an unexpectedly superb performance. In the mid-teens to early twenties (as I know only too well as a coach) performances can vary from one extreme to another, as the various parts of the body grow at differing rates. After a growth period, there is a time when strength collapses and even the ability to judge distances can be impaired. But there then come those wonderful moments when the newly grown body "clicks" and everything works together. So long as the young sportsman has a good technique, this results in sudden massive improvements such as we have seen. I would be more worried to see an equivalent "wonder performance" in someone in their late twenties, after full physical maturity.

 

[jon0844]

I was surprised the BBC went on about it so long (clearly they'd made the report and wanted to air it no matter what new information had come about).

I heard on BBC Three Counties Radio a totally different perspective, with the opinion of an American coach disregarded and everyone else backing the swimmer.

That was long before I saw the report on the TV!

I am not convinced everything the BBC does is planned or a deliberate political motivated attack, but rather the more (sadly disappointing) reasons, such as what I said - they'd heard about the accusation, gone off and done some interviews and edited a report - then someone probably heard the updated situation and thought 'if we pull this, we've got nothing else to fill that segment' and opted to run it. No doubt then deciding to go off and do a piece that may well contradict everything to fill another slot later on.

Now, as it happens, I have read about undetectable drugs and there's a good chance that some people this year will be using them and may be taking a gamble as to whether the IOC and doping boards have caught up and found new ways to detect things - but let's just wait and see and not jump to conclusions.

 

[Darandio]

Wiggo just about to go for gold.

With two of his main competitors carrying injuries, another of his competitors just snapped his chain on the starting ramp! Amazing.

 

[Johnuk123]

"His team didn't expect a mechanical failure in the first 2 metres"

I bet they didn't.

 

[chris89]

Wiggo just about to go for gold.

With two of his main competitors carrying injuries, another of his competitors just snapped his chain on the starting ramp! Amazing.

The one who had the chain snap also had a rear puncture as well.

All the best for both Froome and Wiggins

Chris

 

[andrew bell]

But i do agree that there is too much crying "drugs" - and hounding innocent sportsmen - when there is an unexpectedly superb performance. In the mid-teens to early twenties (as I know only too well as a coach) performances can vary from one extreme to another, as the various parts of the body grow at differing rates. After a growth period, there is a time when strength collapses and even the ability to judge distances can be impaired. But there then come those wonderful moments when the newly grown body "clicks" and everything works together. So long as the young sportsman has a good technique, this results in sudden massive improvements such as we have seen. I would be more worried to see an equivalent "wonder performance" in someone in their late twenties, after full physical maturity.

I completly agree with you, and so does Ian Thorpe. Last night while in the studio with (I think) Gary Linekar he was asked about Ye Shewan's 'extraordinary' performances at just 16 years, Thorpe basically said it happened to him too at roughly the same age and he never used any drugs or performance enhancing stimulants. He was also never questioned about it too. I believe its because Ye is a chinese athlete and they have in the past had problems with drug cheats

And well done to Helen and Heather on Gold today, I have to admit when the national anthem was played I had goosebumps, was a very emotional moment

 

[chris89]

Wiggins just got Gold -42 seconds faster then Martin (DEU) Also Froome got Bronze

Chris

 

[Johnuk123]

Wiggins just got Gold -42 seconds faster then Martin (DEU) Also Froome got Bronze

Chris

2 golds and 2 bronze in one day for us !

 

[ainsworth74]

Gold for Wiggins and bronze for Froome!

 

[SS4]

All the 8 players now thrown out.

Probably the right result.

Your idea that it isn't match fixing seems to be rather out of step with every single media outlet.

Every single media outlet also assumes guilt even if proven innocent. The day the media is accurate is the day West Brom win the Champions League.

Here is just a small selection:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...l-says-former-Team-GB-Olympian-Gail-Emms.html

Directly quotes Gail Emms - that makes it her opinion instead of the journalist's/paper's

http://www.standard.co.uk/olympics/...to-lose-to-get-easier-next-round-7997228.html

Doesn't even mention the term match-fixing.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/officials-probe-olympic-badminton-match-205523568.html

Someone who puts the opinion word "chaos" in their first and second sentence cannot be trusted to give an accurate representation. South Korea played to lose in retaliation to China doing the same - proves nothing beyond having a goal to get out of the game

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/us-oly-badm-bdwdob-group-day-idUSBRE86U1NA20120731

Pretty much a re-wording of the Eurosport Article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/badminton-players-face-extremely-serious-match-fixing-charge-2012-8

[/QUOTE]

Match fixing not mentioned outside of a sensationalist title.

Unsporting conduct is not match fixing. Playing to lose is a tactical decision brought about group stages. To fix a match there would need to be a pre-meditated agreement. Of course I can understand why it could be seen as match fixing.

Here is the definition of tactic:
Tactic (n) : 1. An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.

The specific end was to lose the game and so get a better run up into the final. The strategy or action was to play poor badminton.

 

[Oswyntail]

....
The specific end was to lose the game and so get a better run up into the final. The strategy or action was to play poor badminton.

Can someone remind me...wasn't there an international football match (African cup of nations?) when one team realised they had to lose by "n" goals to avoid the favourites in the next round - but then their opponents cottoned on and started scoring own goals for fun! Nothing new under the sun.
Back to this case - I agree that there was nothing illegal done, but it is a sad day when you have to write in the laws "players must try to win". They were cheating the spectators who had paid their money to see a sensible contest; they were cheating the rest of the surviving competitors, who had played fairly according to the rules of the draw. And what it says to me is that they believed they would lose their match against the strong team anyway, if they were so desperate to avoid them. Not a good attitude.

 

[LE Greys]

Match fixing not mentioned outside of a sensationalist title.

Unsporting conduct is not match fixing. Playing to lose is a tactical decision brought about group stages. To fix a match there would need to be a pre-meditated agreement. Of course I can understand why it could be seen as match fixing.

Here is the definition of tactic:
Tactic (n) : 1. An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.

The specific end was to lose the game and so get a better run up into the final. The strategy or action was to play poor badminton.

I have to agree. It's not entirely sporting, but if it's all about getting medals, then they were doing something to help them win. There might be better ways to play it (FA Cup-style draws after each round for instance) so I'd say dodgy, but acceptable.

Gold for Wiggins and bronze for Froome!

Good for them! We're on the board (and nothing dodgy at all). Well done!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Silver in the pool in 200m mens breaststroke. Nice work!!! not a bad haul today at all!

 

[chris89]

Silver in the pool in 200m mens breaststroke. Nice work!!! not a bad haul today at all!

Not at all.

Two Golds, One Silver and Two Bronze isn't it?

Also Velodome events start tomorrow as well

Chris

 

[LE Greys]

Not at all.

Two Golds, One Silver and Two Bronze isn't it?

Also Velodome events start tomorrow as well

Chris

Ah yes, the rowers produced a gold and a bronze. Gold in the women's pairs for Helen Glover and Heather Stanning, plus bronze in the men's coxed eights.

And a rather amusing moment when Mayor Boris decided to find the best seat in the house! Accident or stunt?

 

[trentside]

And a rather amusing moment when Mayor Boris decided to find the best seat in the house! Accident or stunt?

Only Boris... he obviously survived unscathed as he was in the crowd for the Artistic Gymnastics later in the day.

I must say it's been a great day today, five thoroughly deserved medals. I was also impressed by Kristian Thomas in the gymnastics - he came so close to a medal, had he not made a slip on his otherwise impressive vault. I don't usually watch the gymnastics events - but it proved very entertaining!