The North Wales Coast

[Arglwydd Golau]

If I recall North Llanrwst station was put in for a National Eisteddfod along with a passing loop. Two stations in little Llanrwst, two minutes apart.

Bob

I'm sure that you are correct regarding the Eisteddfod, but isn't North Llanwrst the 'original' Llanwrst station which always had a passing loop/ signal box etc and the newer one is much closer to the town centre....agree that it is odd to have two stations so close....

 

[Arriva 175]

I think Arriva's 18-22 mark 2s should be put to use. The pool code it is assigned to, according to thejunction, is 'Arriva Trains Wales Special Events Stock'. Either ATW should actually use the stock when there are special events (the festival near Pembrey & Burry Port several weeks ago resulted in the staff having to turn loads of passengers away from the 2-car 175 I was traveling on, yet to my knowledge this 'special events stock' remained sat in the depot) or they should:

• Obtain the 6 mark 2 DBSOs
• Fit 6 class 47 or 57 locomotives with the right sort of TDM to work with the DBSOs
• Form 6 rakes (one of which would be spare) of mark 2s with TDM fitted loco and DBSO
• Put the 5 LHCS sets in service on the 5 busiest 175 diagrams expected on each day

The restrictive MU speed restrictions mentioned in the discussion regarding WAG 2 not going 67 hauled from December might be a problem though.

Unfortunately Arriva Wales like Northern is a no growth franchise and the use of locos and stock is never going to happen unless the Welsh Assembly pay for it.
Most of the spare coaches that Arriva owns are currently at Long Marston MOD depot and have been for last 2 years. They where for sale last i heard. The only spare sets are for the WAG and these are put to use between Cardiff and Holyhead on Event days, mainly Rugby or football at the Millennium stadium.

 

[jones_bangor]

I'm sure that you are correct regarding the Eisteddfod, but isn't North Llanwrst the 'original' Llanwrst station which always had a passing loop/ signal box etc and the newer one is much closer to the town centre....agree that it is odd to have two stations so close....

Llanrwst North is a request stop only. The main Llanrwst station is the one train users use.

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm sure that you are correct regarding the Eisteddfod, but isn't North Llanwrst the 'original' Llanwrst station which always had a passing loop/ signal box etc and the newer one is much closer to the town centre....agree that it is odd to have two stations so close....

Correct, the loop was always there after thinking about it,yes it was the original station, then renamed North ,the other station was put in for the Eisteddfod.
not many towns with a 3K population have two stations less than two minutes apart
Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

BR when their budget was cut in the Thather/Lawson recession pared back services on a whole host of rural lines leaving a service of sorts in place that was often hopeless in attracting passengers. Many of these cuts were still in force at privitisation with the cut timetable written into PSR's and franchise agreements to this day.

Esk Valley springs to mind 8 a day cut to 4.
Heart of Wales 5 to 4 - an ex BR Manager admitted they lost 50% of the footfall overnight after this.
Conwy Valley - second unit.

The Cambrian lost its 1st UP service but this was thankfully reinstated.

 

[anthony263]

BR when their budget was cut in the Thather/Lawson recession pared back services on a whole host of rural lines leaving a service of sorts in place that was often hopeless in attracting passengers. Many of these cuts were still in force at privitisation with the cut timetable written into PSR's and franchise agreements to this day.

Esk Valley springs to mind 8 a day cut to 4.
Heart of Wales 5 to 4 - an ex BR Manager admitted they lost 50% of the footfall overnight after this.
Conwy Valley - second unit.

The Cambrian lost its 1st UP service but this was thankfully reinstated.

I think if funds & units do become available, then the heart of wales line should not only get its 5th train back but that it should get a 6th service, ie a train every 2/3 hours.

Hopefully they will be able to recast the heart of wales timetable so that the 1st heart of wales train arrives into swansea before 9am

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think if funds & units do become available, then the heart of wales line should not only get its 5th train back but that it should get a 6th service, ie a train every 2/3 hours.

Hopefully they will be able to recast the heart of wales timetable so that the 1st heart of wales train arrives into swansea before 9am

Is my logic being somewhat strained by the fact that I am not of Welsh descent (as my name would suggest), but how does the Heart of Wales line, extremely pleasant as it is, feature in a thread called "The North Wales Coast".

 

[merlodlliw]

Is my logic being somewhat strained by the fact that I am not of Welsh descent (as my name would suggest), but how does the Heart of Wales line, extremely pleasant as it is, feature in a thread called "The North Wales Coast".

most threads "drift", so like yourself will point this out, however the HOWL is part of timetable one which does in fact cover HOWL/Cambrian & Dee/seven,
the local rail partnerships co ordinator on the Dee/Seven publishes a local printed timetable due to the franchise version being far too complicated for a quick reference.

 

[krus_aragon]

Correct, the loop was always there after thinking about it,yes it was the original station, then renamed North ,the other station was put in for the Eisteddfod.
not many towns with a 3K population have two stations less than two minutes apart
Bob

Other passing loops that have existed on the branch in the past include Tal-y-Cafn, Betws-y-Coed, and Dolwyddelan. There was also a loop south of Dolgarrog for the freight branch to the old aluminium works.

 

[jones_bangor]

Other passing loops that have existed on the branch in the past include Tal-y-Cafn, Betws-y-Coed, and Dolwyddelan. There was also a loop south of Dolgarrog for the freight branch to the old aluminium works.

Indeed, when the plans were being discussed for a slate waste service from Blaenau Ffestiniog to the coast line, reinstating the Dolwyddelan loop was discussed as a way of increasing capacity.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Most threads "drift", so like yourself will point this out, however the HOWL is part of timetable one which does in fact cover HOWL/Cambrian & Dee/Severn,.....the local rail partnerships co ordinator on the Dee/Severn publishes a local printed timetable, due to the franchise version being far too complicated for a quick reference.

Bob, sorry about this. My mind was not too clear-thinking at 0643 on a Sunday morning. The local rail partnerships co-ordinator is providing a very useful service in what he has printed.

 

[merlodlliw]

Bob, sorry about this. My mind was not too clear-thinking at 0643 on a Sunday morning. The local rail partnerships co-ordinator is providing a very useful service in what he has printed.

I find it easier at 0530 on a Sunday, two & half hours before SWMBO departs her pit.


Bob

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed, when the plans were being discussed for a slate waste service from Blaenau Ffestiniog to the coast line, reinstating the Dolwyddelan loop was discussed as a way of increasing capacity.

What was the estimated tonnage of slate waste and time period for such a service that you state above? Slate is by its very nature, a heavy bulk item that is ideal for rail freight, as are the limestone trains in the Buxton area.

There was a thread on this forum, some time ago, concerning the removal of a large coal waste deposition in the Wrexham area (I think it began with "B" in its name) that was envisaged to take between 7 to 9 years to clear in completion by rail.

 

[rich.davies]

What was the estimated tonnage of slate waste and time period for such a service that you state above? Slate is by its very nature, a heavy bulk item that is ideal for rail freight, as are the limestone trains in the Buxton area.

There was a thread on this forum, some time ago, concerning the removal of a large coal waste deposition in the Wrexham area (I think it began with "B" in its name) that was envisaged to take between 7 to 9 years to clear in completion by rail.

Its the Bersham Slag Heap, wouldnt they have to put new sidings in? (sorry to go off thread)

 

[merlodlliw]

Its the Bersham Slag Heap, wouldnt they have to put new sidings in? (sorry to go off thread)

correct part of the planning at Bersham, used to be sidings there in the coal days, sidings area still also still there.

As for Blaenau, my guess would be over 50 years.


I note an interesting couple of threads on the Trans Pennine on this page, I recall when what was known as the Manchester/Llandudno Club train running in the 60s/70s ( ex Exchange 1630) this steam train was replaced by DMUs used on Trans Pennine routes, forget the class number, it did the 85 mile run in 120 minutes
Exchange/Victoria,Warrington.Chester,Prestatyn,Rhyl,Colwyn,Junction & Llandudno, same timings as steam.

Bob

 

[Smethwickian]

Travelled back from Holyhead to Chester on way to London yesterday on late running ATW to Birmingham Intl. As an aside have to commend staff on train, collecting info from passengers who needed to make tight connections and keeping everyone infomed, sadly not a service which can be expected everywhere.

The only time in the last couple of years I have had cause to write positively to a TOC to commend staff for very similar good service was also an ATW conductor, on a late running Cambrian Coast to Birmingham International train.

Staff on those trains and between West Midlands and North Wales Coast do generally seem helpful and efficient, at least from my perspective as a bog standard passenger.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

With the greatest of respect to you, and I know me and you have a lot of banter go between us on subjects, it isn't as much a complaint, more of an observation.

I was just thinking that the NWC has a few seaside towns (ie Flint, Prestatyn, Rhyl, abergele and Pensarn, Colwyn Bay, llandudno etc) and I was merely thinking that perhaps with another service going in there might help out boost figures, if that is the right phrase to use.

I agree with you that some of their trains are too short in general BUT, and this is where I am going to actually back up ATW on this, they only have a limited availability of stock that section this can have. Most of their 175 units have gone down for their Manchester Piccadilly to South Wales services BUT then you have to remember that they have 51 158s and one has to ask where all of them have disappeared to

Another point that I am going to agree with you on is Liverpool. Most of the trade that comes in for Wales seems to be from people from the Liverpool area and all they have, at the moment, to get them into the North Wales Coast is a service every twenty minutes from Liverpool Central on MerseyRail to get them as far as Chester and this, IMO, is where a TOC like Northern Rail could come in and extend, suggestively, the Liverpool to Warrington services and send them down the NWC.

I've been letter writing for a while to my MP regarding direct rail services from Chester/Wrexham to Liverpool. To his credit he has been very proactive in this respect. Yesterday I received a letter from him which included a letter he had received from Merseyrail. In summary, Merseyrail and partners are campaigning for the Halton Curve to be reopened cheaply. Single track, bi directional with a minimum of signalling and track modifications.
They have suggested an hourly diesel service from either Chester or Wrexham. The case for the Wrexham service is 'to supplement the Borderlands line' with direct services via [stn]LPY[/stn] for the airport.

This is now sitting with NR and my MP has written to NR chasing up where they are up to.
The last GRIP 3 cost analysis was £11m but this was based a a new double track etc. Merseyrail and partners are pushing for the cheap and cheerful option. Hopefully something will come of it.

 

[merlodlliw]

I've been letter writing for a while to my MP regarding direct rail services from Chester/Wrexham to Liverpool. To his credit he has been very proactive in this respect. Yesterday I received a letter from him which included a letter he had received from Merseyrail. In summary, Merseyrail and partners are campaigning for the Halton Curve to be reopened cheaply. Single track, bi directional with a minimum of signalling and track modifications.
They have suggested an hourly diesel service from either Chester or Wrexham. The case for the Wrexham service is 'to supplement the Borderlands line' with direct services via LPY for the airport.

This is now sitting with NR and my MP has written to NR chasing up where they are up to.
The last GRIP 3 cost analysis was £11m but this was based a a new double track etc. Merseyrail and partners are pushing for the cheap and cheerful option. Hopefully something will come of it.

Its interesting the Wrexham service, but not until the track is double to Chester,then WAG would have to agree etc, ATW would throw a tantrum,but with luck a new toc by that time with growth, looking at a service with the North West,we fly & work within the North West up here,well those of us in the private sector do. Who is your M.P.? BTW
Network Rail are slow with grip studies, the Wrexham/Saltney was well over a year late until they were leaned on.
Bob

 

[cle]

There's no point doing it on the cheap. It'll be very popular even when single and hourly, and then they'll want to redouble it anyway so frequencies can be higher - which means paying for resignalling twice. This country doesn't learn...

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Its interesting the Wrexham service, but not until the track is double to Chester,then WAG would have to agree etc, ATW would throw a tantrum,but with luck a new toc by that time with growth, looking at a service with the North West,we fly & work within the North West up here,well those of us in the private sector do. Who is your M.P.? BTW
Network Rail are slow with grip studies, the Wrexham/Saltney was well over a year late until they were leaned on.
Bob

I've contacted you with details of my MP.
He is working with Halton and CWAC councils, Peel Holdings and a Merseyside Freight consortium as well as Merseyrail and others etc. I believe Taith are involved? To be fair he is doing all he can. He has also lobbied Theresa Villers who was non committal on the subject though not necessarily against it. She questioned the VFM but this was based on the original NR cost and not a cheap and cheerful option. If course, if a service was put in place and along with freight generated enough income, there could be a case for full doubling etc.

 

[merlodlliw]

I've contacted you with details of my MP.
He is working with Halton and CWAC councils, Peel Holdings and a Merseyside Freight consortium as well as Merseyrail and others etc. I believe Taith are involved? To be fair he is doing all he can. He has also lobbied Theresa Villers who was non committal on the subject though not necessarily against it. She questioned the VFM but this was based on the original NR cost and not a cheap and cheerful option. If course, if a service was put in place and along with freight generated enough income, there could be a case for full doubling etc.

If Taith are involved and should be, at least we will have North East Wales representation, however Taith members are Councillors, with only one of rail experience David Bithel, who heads Wrexham CC transport & coincidently works for Net Rail as a bobby at Croes Newydd in his spare time.

Bob

 

[Cheshire Rover]

There's no point doing it on the cheap. It'll be very popular even when single and hourly, and then they'll want to redouble it anyway so frequencies can be higher - which means paying for resignalling twice. This country doesn't learn...

You are right. However, the reasons being given by NR for not doing this is cost. I'd rather have a service a cheap and cheerful line that none at all.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When was the mid-Cheshire line from Manchester to Chester, ever considered for having the service extended to Wrexham in recent years?

 

[Cheshire Rover]

When was the mid-Cheshire line from Manchester to Chester, ever considered for having the service extended to Wrexham in recent years?

I've no idea? The line I am on about is the Chester to Manchester via Warrington line and a possible project to reopen the Halton Curve.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I've no idea? The line I am on about is the Chester to Manchester via Warrington line and a possible project to reopen the Halton Curve.

My question had no reference whatsoever to your current postings. It was just unfortunate in its time of posting that appears to have clashed with your posting. It concerns a question asked of me, upon which I sought forum help, in order that I might be able to provide an answer to the person who asked me that question.

It was a question asked specifically naming the mid-Cheshire line, as this thread covers areas appertaining to lines with Chester as a fulcrum point.

If any forum members can provide an answer, I would be most grateful.