the most over the top restrictions introduced

[trebor79]

What, so he seriously thinks that people were actually bothered that supermarkets hadn't reduced what they were selling, and this time will be grateful that nobody is allowed to buy any socks? What planet are these people on?

And why exactly do they "need" to stop selling socks (or USB cables, or whatever)?

Can I have some of whatever he's smoking please? Must be good stuff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What, so he seriously thinks that people were actually bothered that supermarkets hadn't reduced what they were selling, and this time will be grateful that nobody is allowed to buy any socks? What planet are these people on?

And why exactly do they "need" to stop selling socks (or USB cables, or whatever)?

Because closing shops that sell only those things while allowing supermarkets to sell them is grossly unfair and highly anticompetitive? It also opens the option, as some pubs are doing in English level 3 areas, for those stores to take the mick, e.g. by putting a crate of UHT milk in the corner and claiming they are a food shop.

This is going the same way as the masks thread - the undertone is "I don't support a lockdown so I'm going to ridicule every aspect of it". This is really unhelpful to the debate; better to have "should Wales have a lockdown or not" and "given that Wales is to have a lockdown, what should it look like" as two separate threads of conversation (even if they aren't their own Forum thread).

 

[kristiang85]

All its doing is getting people into the habit of going onto Amazon, which will kill off local business even more. He's mad.

 

[DB]

Because closing shops that sell only those things while allowing supermarkets to sell them is grossly unfair and highly anticompetitive?

So all that happens is that they order it from Amazon instead - and if they start using onling shopping instead then they may not go back to shops for it in future.

Clearly, allowing use of Amazon will also be "highly anticompetitive" - are you going to suggest that's banned as well? And before you suggest that local businesses could offer online orders, yes, maybe some could, but many of them won't be set up for it in the way that Amazon (and indeed the supermarkets) are.

Your answer to problems caused by restrictions always seems to be to try to counter it by introducing more restrictions rather than considering whether the restrictions are actually reasonable in the first place.

 

[Howardh]

These pub restrictions, if I'm out and about I would like to pop into a bar for a pint or two; but I don't want a meal. If I'm "forced" to buy one, I'm buying food I don't want - so why can't I "donate" it to hard-up families instead? If a fiver buys me a burger and chips, can't the fiver indtead be sent to a central fund to help the worst-off, I still get my couple of pints and a bag of peanuts, the hungry kids get fed?

 

[trainophile]

People are already taking the mick. There was a publican on the radio this morning saying he is now offering chip butties along with the usual alcohol, which apparently qualifies him as serving "substantial meals". Not sure where he was, might have been Liverpool as they have had the longest to work something like this out!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

People are already taking the mick. There was a publican on the radio this morning saying he is now offering chip butties along with the usual alcohol, which apparently qualifies him as serving "substantial meals". Not sure where he was, might have been Liverpool as they have had the longest to work something like this out!

Alternatively, he is being creative whilst desperately trying to save his business and keep his staff employed so they can feed their families.

 

[Huntergreed]

This 'essential shopping only' rule:

What if a child is sick on their bedsheets and you can't go out to buy anymore?

What if your laptop packs in, you have an imminent university deadline, you have your work emailed to yourself, but can't go and get a new laptop, thus failing the assignment and possibly resulting in disciplinary action?

What if a microwave/oven packs in, are you to simply buy takeaways for 2 weeks?

What if your mouse/keyboard/monitor/computer packs in and means you are unable to work, potentially causing a loss of employment?

What if your washing machine packs in, are you to simply use the same smelly, dirty clothing for 2 weeks?

What if you end up damaging your phone/internet, are you to go without any interaction whatsoever for 2 weeks?

What if your fridge packs in, are you to go out multiple times a day to buy food just before you want to make it?

What if you tear some clothes you need for an online meeting, are you to simply ignore that?

What if your phone charger packs in, are you to simply go without a phone for 2 weeks?

There's so many problems with this absolutely ridiculous rule it's unbelievable anyone is even considering implementing it, let alone that it has actually happened.

 

[Richard Scott]

All its doing is getting people into the habit of going onto Amazon, which will kill off local business even more. He's mad.

My thoughts exactly. Drakeford hits Welsh economy even harder.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Because closing shops that sell only those things while allowing supermarkets to sell them is grossly unfair and highly anticompetitive?

What does restricting what an already open supermarket can sell do to control the spread of COVID?

Remembering the attempts by some police to close down the sale of Easter Eggs, are the numerous Christmas aisles now appearing also not essential amd will be closed? Politicians (or is it civil servants?) making these rules deserve all the ridicule they will no doubt receive.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What does restricting what an already open supermarket can sell do to control the spread of COVID?

It causes you to make fewer trips to it and spend less time there.

 

[Richard Scott]

It causes you to make fewer trips to it and spend less time there.

Because supermarket visits have caused so many cases haven't they. For some of us they were the only element of normality in lockdown and saved us from going insane. You won't be happy until everyone else is totally miserable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This 'essential shopping only' rule:

What if a child is sick on their bedsheets and you can't go out to buy anymore?

Wash them.

What if your laptop packs in, you have an imminent university deadline, you have your work emailed to yourself, but can't go and get a new laptop, thus failing the assignment and possibly resulting in disciplinary action?

Order one off Amazon, Ebuyer, AO or whatever from your phone, as every student would do anyway. You don't buy laptops from a shop unless you like being ripped off.

What if a microwave/oven packs in, are you to simply buy takeaways for 2 weeks?

As above.

What if your mouse/keyboard/monitor/computer packs in and means you are unable to work, potentially causing a loss of employment?

And again.

What if your washing machine packs in, are you to simply use the same smelly, dirty clothing for 2 weeks?

Order one for delivery which is what you'd do anyway. The number of people who have a big enough van to go and get one but don't have a credit/debit card and an Internet connection is going to be rather near zero. Until it shows up, hand wash.

What if your fridge packs in, are you to go out multiple times a day to buy food just before you want to make it?

Buy non-perishable food and order one for delivery. Who buys a fridge in person and takes it home? When my fridge broke not in lockdown last year I ordered one from AO. Cheaper than hiring a van to collect one.

What if you tear some clothes you need for an online meeting, are you to simply ignore that?

Wear something else.

What if your phone charger packs in, are you to simply go without a phone for 2 weeks?

Order one off Amazon or ring a friend who could drop one through your door without contact.

This:

What if you end up damaging your phone/internet, are you to go without any interaction whatsoever for 2 weeks?

is the only one I can't answer, but I'd imagine you could probably go to a phone box to phone a friend, and ask them to order something for you online.

In 2000 all this would have been difficult. In 2020 it's not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2020 ==

Because supermarket visits have caused so many cases haven't they. For some of us they were the only element of normality in lockdown and saved us from going insane. You won't be happy until everyone else is totally miserable.

It's a lockdown. It wouldn't be a lockdown if you have "except everything" on the end of the rules.

 

[Richard Scott]

Wash them.



Order one off Amazon, Ebuyer, AO or whatever from your phone, as every student would do anyway. You don't buy laptops from a shop unless you like being ripped off.



As above.



And again.



Order one for delivery which is what you'd do anyway. The number of people who have a big enough van to go and get one but don't have a credit/debit card and an Internet connection is going to be rather near zero. Until it shows up, hand wash.



Buy non-perishable food and order one for delivery. Who buys a fridge in person and takes it home? When my fridge broke not in lockdown last year I ordered one from AO. Cheaper than hiring a van to collect one.



Wear something else.



Order one off Amazon or ring a friend who could drop one through your door without contact.

This:



is the only one I can't answer, but I'd imagine you could probably go to a phone box to phone a friend, and ask them to order something for you online.

In 2000 all this would have been difficult. In 2020 it's not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2020 ==



It's a lockdown. It wouldn't be a lockdown if you have "except everything" on the end of the rules.

Thanks for proving my point. You really would be much happier if rest of population was totally miserable.

 

[43096]

Order one off Amazon, Ebuyer, AO or whatever from your phone, as every student would do anyway. You don't buy laptops from a shop unless you like being ripped off.

So you've just proved the point others have made. Close the shops and limit what supermarkets can sell as "anti competitive". So people go to Amazon et al - isn't that "anti competitive" as well.

 

[big_rig]

Thanks for proving my point. You really would be much happier if rest of population was totally miserable.

It really is sad what this has brought out in some people isn’t it. A terrible combination of a natural tendency towards authoritarianism and overreaction to/ignorance of the actual chance of death from an encounter with Covid means there’s a chunk of the population which wants to see everything banned no matter whether they’ve ever done the activity in question themselves or not. I can think of people who want gyms banned despite never having set foot in one in their lives because them being open means a) potential for a lengthy and totally made up chain of transmission to arrive b) people enjoying themselves ‘in a pandemic’ which needs to be banned too.

 

[yorkie]

Wash them.

And if your washing machine packs in?

Order one off Amazon, Ebuyer, AO or whatever from your phone, as every student would do anyway. You don't buy laptops from a shop unless you like being ripped off.

Is this a serious response?

It's a lockdown. It wouldn't be a lockdown if you have "except everything" on the end of the rules.

There are loads of things you can buy, such as alcohol, which are less "essential" than the things you are arguing against. I'd be curious to see your full list of acceptable vs non-acceptable items!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2020 ==

It really is sad what this has brought out in some people isn’t it. A terrible combination of a natural tendency towards authoritarianism and overreaction to/ignorance of the actual chance of death from an encounter with Covid means there’s a chunk of the population which wants to see everything banned no matter whether they’ve ever done the activity in question themselves or not. I can think of people who want gyms banned despite never having set foot in one in their lives because them being open means a) potential for a lengthy and totally made up chain of transmission to arrive b) people enjoying themselves ‘in a pandemic’ which needs to be banned too.

I share these concerns.

Fortunately I think gym closures are only a thing in Wales (and presumably Scotland) right now. If they ban outdoor football, I will be uncontrollably angry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are loads of things you can buy, such as alcohol, which are less "essential" than the things you are arguing against. I'd be curious to see your full list of acceptable vs non-acceptable items!

I see your point about alcohol. I suspect they mean food, really.

But seriously, who buys laptops from a shop in 2020? I bought one in Dixons in 1999. Since then I have not bought computer hardware from an in-person store - and your typical student is tech-savvier than middle aged me.

 

[trebor79]

But seriously, who buys laptops from a shop in 2020?

<Puts hand up>

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2020 ==

Meanwhile, I just spotted this:

Coronavirus: Chester drive-in movie bogged down by lockdown loos

Movie-goers cannot cross the Welsh border to use toilet facilities at the drive-in cinema.

www.bbc.co.uk

Plans for a drive-in cinema in Chester were bogged down after the toilets were found to be across the border with Wales and subject to Welsh Covid rules.

The bathroom facilities at Chester FC cannot be used due to the new Covid-19 lockdown in Wales.

Anyone caught short would not have been allowed to cross the border.

Absurd.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from lockdown measures, that's yet another silly situation caused by the UK's inability to draw boundaries properly to bring all of a city into one administrative area. The same stupidity exists in MK, too; Old Stratford, which is part of the built up area, is in Northants, and some new bits are going to be in Aylesbury Vale. It's ridiculous and it causes stupidity like this (and tremendous waste, e.g. a bin lorry having to drive all the way down from somewhere in Northants to empty the bins of about 4 streets which are really de-facto in MK).

The Chester boundary is beyond silly and really needs to go down the B5129.

In any case is going for a wee not "essential travel"?

 

[Scotrail12]

Thanks for proving my point. You really would be much happier if rest of population was totally miserable.

Where's the "like" button on here?

Some people clearly have no life and want to interfere to much in that of others.

 

[yorkie]

Absurd.

Music video by Fluke performing Absurd.

We could do with a remake of this music video with a series of Covid measures!

 

[duncanp]

And now there are reports of school children being denied access to water and toilets, and being made to eat their lunch standing up outside no matter what the weather is.

But what does it matter if kids catch pneumonia or s**t themselves because they are not allowed to go to the toilet, as long as transmissions of the big bad killer virus are reduced, that is all that matters.

If I was a parent of a child at a school that implemented these measures, I would be spitting feathers.

Access Restricted

School children are being denied access to water and toilet facilities, made to sit in cold classrooms and eat lunch standing outside, ministers have been told.
The "basic welfare" of pupils is being overlooked by "overzealous" teachers who are taking measures which they believe will mitigate the risk of virus transmission, according to the parent campaign group Us For Them.
In a letter to the Education Secretary, schools minister and children's minister, the group reported: "Some of the cases we are seeing are extreme and many involve alarming issues of child welfare and safeguarding.
"Many children are faced with an array of measures which are disproportionate both individually and which together add up to a regime which is deeply concerning".
Molly Kingsley, co-founder of Us For Them, said said the group have received hundreds of reports from parents about schools going above and beyond what is required in official guidance.

"No one is policing this," she said. "Everyone is passing the buck so the schools have a free reign. Parents are having to police the Government's policies which puts them in an impossible situation."
Some parents reported that pupils were only given set time slots to use the toilets and are not allowed to go outside of these times, while others reported that children were told to always eat their lunch outdoors regardless of the weather.
Ofsted inspectors normally hold schools to account by inspecting them on issues such as children's welfare as management.
However, Ofsted says it is not responsible for the implementation of the Government's coronavirus guidance adding that it has no "scopt to interpret or enforce this guidance".
"We need to understand who is responsible at Government level for overseeing that measures to control the virus are not implemented so egregiously that they cause harm," the letter to Gavin Williamson said.
Ms Kingsley told the Education Secretary that UsforThem have sought legal advice on the issue and is prepared to bring a judicial review against the Government over its guidance for schools.
Earlier this week, the Children's Commissioner warned that overcautious teachers are sending entire year groups of pupils home unnecessarily, as she said that youngsters should "not be sacrificed on the altar of Covid". Just one pupil testing positive for coronavirus can send an entire school into "chaos" with a whole year group sent home for a fortnight, Anne Longfield said.
She wrote to MPs highlighting the huge discrepancies in the interpretation of guidance on how to handle cases of Covid-19 at school, and the detrimental effect this is having on children's education.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And now there are reports of school children being denied access to water and toilets, and being made to eat their lunch standing up outside no matter what the weather is.

But what does it matter if kids catch pneumonia or s**t themselves because they are not allowed to go to the toilet, as long as transmissions of the big bad killer virus are reduced, that is all that matters.

That is very clearly a Safeguarding issue; someone needs the sack for that as a minimum. But there's long been a thing about denying children use of the toilet in school, it's nothing new, and it's not and never has been acceptable.

 

[yorkie]

That is very clearly a Safeguarding issue; someone needs the sack for that as a minimum. But there's long been a thing about denying children use of the toilet in school, it's nothing new, and it's not and never has been acceptable.

On the first point, I agree.

Your second point is on an entirely different point to the point made here (lesson times vs lunch times) and is nothing to do with Covid restrictions.

 

[Richard Scott]

And now there are reports of school children being denied access to water and toilets, and being made to eat their lunch standing up outside no matter what the weather is.

But what does it matter if kids catch pneumonia or s**t themselves because they are not allowed to go to the toilet, as long as transmissions of the big bad killer virus are reduced, that is all that matters.

If I was a parent of a child at a school that implemented these measures, I would be spitting feathers.

Access Restricted

Would be willing to bet the over zealous teachers are working under guidance of misguided management.

 

[johnnychips]

I work in an educational establishment and the ethos is - understandably - ‘cover your back’, rather than rational measures.

 

[Bikeman78]

And if your washing machine packs in?

Simple, pop down to the tip and rob a motor or other spare part off a similar model. Oh wait, they closed the tip!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2020 ==

<Puts hand up>

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2020 ==

Meanwhile, I just spotted this:

Coronavirus: Chester drive-in movie bogged down by lockdown loos

Movie-goers cannot cross the Welsh border to use toilet facilities at the drive-in cinema.

www.bbc.co.uk

Absurd.

Then the local authority will complain when people urinate elsewhere. Just as they did when they refused to open toilets at seaside resorts.

 

[duncanp]

The lunatics really have taken over the asylum if that story from Chester is true

 

[Bantamzen]

It causes you to make fewer trips to it and spend less time there.

In what way does restricting what supermarkets sell cause people to make fewer trips. You are literally making no sense now.

The lunatics really have taken over the asylum if that story from Chester is true

Insane isn't it, oh you can't cross the border to take a leak, even though you are remaining within the same site.