the most over the top restrictions introduced

[Bantamzen]

No, the restrictions aren't "wrecking" the lives of the majority.

And the virus isn't wreaking the lives of the vast majority of people who get it. However a stalling economy, combined with job losses, lost income, lost taxes, a health service in semi-lockdown, not being able to properly socialise with family & friends, and a constant stream of covid-mania whittling down people's will to live could end up wreaking an awful lot more people than covid could. But they don't matter do they?

 

[nedchester]

And the virus isn't wreaking the lives of the vast majority of people who get it. However a stalling economy, combined with job losses, lost income, lost taxes, a health service in semi-lockdown, not being able to properly socialise with family & friends, and a constant stream of covid-mania whittling down people's will to live could end up wreaking an awful lot more people than covid could. But they don't matter do they?

Exactly. We are not, in many cases, looking at the medium / long term effects.

 

[DustyBin]

And the virus isn't wreaking the lives of the vast majority of people who get it. However a stalling economy, combined with job losses, lost income, lost taxes, a health service in semi-lockdown, not being able to properly socialise with family & friends, and a constant stream of covid-mania whittling down people's will to live could end up wreaking an awful lot more people than covid could. But they don't matter do they?

You clearly see the bigger picture!

To those who support restrictions, how long do you think they should continue for, and how do you suggest we deal with the economic impact (and aftermath)?

This isn’t aimed at anybody here specifically, but it seems a lot of those supporting restrictions don’t care about the impact they are having (or will have) on others. Presumably these people don’t need to worry about working, paying bills etc. which is great for them, but surely their attitude is every bit as selfish as that of those who want to return to normal and get on with life?

 

[Bantamzen]

You clearly see the bigger picture!

To those who support restrictions, how long do you think they should continue for, and how do you suggest we deal with the economic impact (and aftermath)?

This isn’t aimed at anybody here specifically, but it seems a lot of those supporting restrictions don’t care about the impact they are having (or will have) on others. Presumably these people don’t need to worry about working, paying bills etc. which is great for them, but surely their attitude is every bit as selfish as that of those who want to return to normal and get on with life?

I wish more people would see it. From a personal viewpoint I see worrying signs around my social circles of things getting steadily worse for everyone, from losing jobs through to mental wellbeing, things are deteriorating. From a professional viewpoint, I see even more worrying signs of what is to come, especially with regards to jobs & incomes (I can't expand on this much unfortunately, other than to say the end of this month might be very telling).

 

[nedchester]

You clearly see the bigger picture!

To those who support restrictions, how long do you think they should continue for, and how do you suggest we deal with the economic impact (and aftermath)?

This isn’t aimed at anybody here specifically, but it seems a lot of those supporting restrictions don’t care about the impact they are having (or will have) on others. Presumably these people don’t need to worry about working, paying bills etc. which is great for them, but surely their attitude is every bit as selfish as that of those who want to return to normal and get on with life?

Also true. I often find that those supporters of hard lock downs are retired, don't have dependents that will be or are looking for future employment.

 

[bramling]

No, the restrictions aren't "wrecking" the lives of the majority.

Unfortunately we’re getting to the point where they now are. Try telling this to a business owner struggling to make their sums balance up as they lost a summer of trading and now have a constant cloud of uncertainty hanging over them, or the staff employed in such a business.

The staff at the hotel I was staying in last week were despairing, as every day the place was becoming less and less full, the thought on their mind being “how on earth are we going to get through 8 months of this?”.

It’s a very difficult balance to make, however I am increasingly coming to the view that we need to find a way of shielding those who are at risk, whilst allowing life to continue in a near-normal way for the majority who evidently aren’t at much risk. If a vaccine doesn’t emerge pretty soon then there’s going to be no option.

Not ideal, but that’s nature unfortunately.

 

[nedchester]

Unfortunately we’re getting to the point where they now are. Try telling this to a business owner struggling to make their sums balance up as they lost a summer of trading and now have a constant cloud of uncertainty hanging over them, or the staff employed in such a business.

The staff at the hotel I was staying in last week were despairing, as every day the place was becoming less and less full, the the thought on their mind was “how on earth are we going to get through 8 months of this?”.

It’s a very difficult balance to make, however I am increasingly coming to the view that we need to find a way of shielding those who are at risk, whilst allowing life to continue in a near-normal way for the majority who evidently aren’t at much risk. If a vaccine doesn’t emerge pretty soon then there’s going to be no option.

Not ideal, but that’s nature unfortunately.

I've been saying the same for a few months now.

 

[Bantamzen]

Unfortunately we’re getting to the point where they now are. Try telling this to a business owner struggling to make their sums balance up as they lost a summer of trading and now have a constant cloud of uncertainty hanging over them, or the staff employed in such a business.

The staff at the hotel I was staying in last week were despairing, as every day the place was becoming less and less full, the the thought on their mind was “how on earth are we going to get through 8 months of this?”.

It’s a very difficult balance to make, however I am increasingly coming to the view that we need to find a way of shielding those who are at risk, whilst allowing life to continue in a near-normal way for the majority who evidently aren’t at much risk. If a vaccine doesn’t emerge pretty soon then there’s going to be no option.

Not ideal, but that’s nature unfortunately.

Indeed, life isn't ideal, it carries risks from the moment we emerge into this world until the moment we shuffle back off it. And at the risk of being overly blunt, we have to deal with that. Just this week two people in my life have had serious but non-covid related health scares, but neither would see the level of public hysteria we see with covid. So we have to take a step back from the state sponsored fear & misinformation, and look at what is really happening. We know with absolute certainty who are most at risk from suffering badly or dying as a result of the virus. As I said way back in March, we should be concentrating all our efforts in protecting them (and not necessarily by locking them away) & letting the rest of the population get back to it, and more importantly earn & spend so that the money can flow to the NHS.

 

[DustyBin]

I wish more people would see it. From a personal viewpoint I see worrying signs around my social circles of things getting steadily worse for everyone, from losing jobs through to mental wellbeing, things are deteriorating. From a professional viewpoint, I see even more worrying signs of what is to come, especially with regards to jobs & incomes (I can't expand on this much unfortunately, other than to say the end of this month might be very telling).

Same here, I can’t go into specifics for obvious reasons but I know what’s about to happen within two large organisations....

 

[Bletchleyite]

To those who support restrictions, how long do you think they should continue for

I suspect the majority view is "until we have a vaccine". Though that has taken longer than originally implied and may take longer still.

I wouldn't overly mind summer-style restrictions for that long, they didn't really affect very much, and unlike others I'm not too bothered by masks. However, keeping the present restrictions until March will be wearing in the extreme.

 

[Bantamzen]

I suspect the majority view is "until we have a vaccine". Though that has taken longer than originally implied and may take longer still.

I wouldn't overly mind summer-style restrictions for that long, they didn't really affect very much, and unlike others I'm not too bothered by masks. However, keeping the present restrictions until March will be wearing in the extreme.

But waiting for a vaccine will almost certainly mean restrictions way beyond March.

 

[Bikeman78]

I suspect the majority view is "until we have a vaccine". Though that has taken longer than originally implied and may take longer still.

I wouldn't overly mind summer-style restrictions for that long, they didn't really affect very much, and unlike others I'm not too bothered by masks. However, keeping the present restrictions until March will be wearing in the extreme.

Indeed, mid July to mid September was okay for me in that I could visit family and go on train rides as I wished. Now I am not allowed to leave Cardiff. I don't have any family in Cardiff, aside from the kids, and even if I did, I'm not allowed to visit them anyway.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I suspect the majority view is "until we have a vaccine". Though that has taken longer than originally implied and may take longer still.

I wouldn't overly mind summer-style restrictions for that long, they didn't really affect very much, and unlike others I'm not too bothered by masks. However, keeping the present restrictions until March will be wearing in the extreme.

But, even with a vaccine, it’s likely there will still be deaths from coronavirus, if the example of flu is anything to go by.
Somebody in government - Sunak, maybe? - needs to LEAD the country*, if we are not to have these restrictions forevermore. For a disease ranked 24th in the list of fatal conditions. Madness!

*after a suitable period of post-B****t chaos whereupon the 1922 committee can lay the blame for economic chaos squarely at the feet of BoJo

 

[Bletchleyite]

But waiting for a vaccine will almost certainly mean restrictions way beyond March.

I don't think that point has been made clearly enough - people still think it means March.

But it depends what constitutes "restrictions". Minor ones I think most people could handle indefinitely, e.g. what we had over the summer. What we have now, rather less so.

 

[Bikeman78]

But, even with a vaccine, it’s likely there will still be deaths from coronavirus, if the example of flu is anything to go by.
Somebody if government - Sunak, maybe? - needs to LEAD the country, if we are not to have these restrictions forevermore. For a disease ranked 24th in the list of fatal conditions. Madness!

Any idea what the top 23 are? I'm guessing that diseases releated to smoking will be on that list. 78,000 deaths a year. Save lives. Protect the NHS. Ban smoking!

 

[Scrotnig]

Indeed, mid July to mid September was okay for me in that I could visit family and go on train rides as I wished. Now I am not allowed to leave Cardiff. I don't have any family in Cardiff, aside from the kids, and even if I did, I'm not allowed to visit them anyway.

Go anyway. Do not allow wealthy government ministers with nothing to lose to destroy your life and family relationships. Be sensible about it and take all sensible precautions but go where you please, when you please and to Hell with the lot of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Go anyway. Do not allow wealthy government ministers with nothing to lose to destroy your life and family relationships. Be sensible about it and take all sensible precautions but go where you please, when you please and to Hell with the lot of them.

Could prove rather expensive - and I'm not just referring to Avanti West Coast's outrageous Anytime fares!

 

[Steveoh]

But it depends what constitutes "restrictions". Minor ones I think most people could handle indefinitely, e.g. what we had over the summer. What we have now, rather less so.

In the summer we certainly had some balance. Most things were possible but in a different way, but some important things (to me at least) are still lacking.

We need to find a way to make the NHS work for everyone, screening programs need to work. Outpatient appointments need to happen, community midwife care needs properly reinstating, health visiting needs to happen. There are stories behind these things but I won't share them here, suffice to say that from personal experience those things aren't happening properly.

The distancing over the summer was still very hard. Grandparents not able to hug grandchildren, new babies that cannot be held. You don't get that time back.

I don't regard these things as minor, I think they're very important. Society is built on these interactions and relationships, we have lived in community for millenia. It's not a mnor thing and I don't think people *can* handle it indefinitely.

 

[Bikeman78]

In the summer we certainly had some balance. Most things were possible but in a different way, but some important things (to me at least) are still lacking.

We need to find a way to make the NHS work for everyone, screening programs need to work. Outpatient appointments need to happen, community midwife care needs properly reinstating, health visiting needs to happen. There are stories behind these things but I won't share them here, suffice to say that from personal experience those things aren't happening properly.

The distancing over the summer was still very hard. Grandparents not able to hug grandchildren, new babies that cannot be held. You don't get that time back.

I don't regard these things as minor, I think they're very important. Society is built on these interactions and relationships, we have lived in community for millenia. It's not a mnor thing and I don't think people *can* handle it indefinitely.

If maternity/midwives/health visitors are struggling now, wait until the beginning of next year. I know a few friends and colleagues that are pregnant. Who could have predicted that lockdown would have resulted in lots of pregnancies!

 

[Scrotnig]

Could prove rather expensive - and I'm not just referring to Avanti West Coast's outrageous Anytime fares!

Anyone worried about fines from usybody railway staff should simply lie and tell them they are going to work.

I'm no liar but this nonsense has turned me into one, I always make sure I have a story ready for any scenario. I'm not prepared to have my life dictated to by authoritarian bullies.

 

[Bantamzen]

I don't think that point has been made clearly enough - people still think it means March.

But it depends what constitutes "restrictions". Minor ones I think most people could handle indefinitely, e.g. what we had over the summer. What we have now, rather less so.

As things stand I can't honestly see any government retreating back to what we had a few weeks ago. Governments have painted themselves into corners with constantly shifting policies & measures. Leave them in place and they risk destroying economies, maybe even societies, lift them and they risk the Wrath of Karen. Quite literally we are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in a well known creek without a paddle.

 

[Howardh]

As things stand I can't honestly see any government retreating back to what we had a few weeks ago. Governments have painted themselves into corners with constantly shifting policies & measures. Leave them in place and they risk destroying economies, maybe even societies, lift them and they risk the Wrath of Karen. Quite literally we are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in a well known creek without a paddle.

Point is - if the UK government takes us back to where we were in March, full lockdown, hour's exercise etc then that would be an admission that their approach has failed dismally.

No-one on this government (ie Cummings) would ever admit to failure, so the chances of being in full lockdown again are remote. But if we did, and thy followed the same process again (longlockdown, gradual re-opening, send the schools back) then there's nothing in the rule book that says figures like todays won't reoccur again.

The only hope, other thana vaccine, is that the number of deaths becomes/stays at a trickle despite the rise of cases. If it's the young that are the issue, then they are much less likely to die than the elderly,so the death figures should remain low and stable if the elderly continue to be protected.

 

[py_megapixel]

Regarding the hour exercise "limit" - clearly entirely unenforceable and utterly daft - did the government fail to realise that many people's preferred forms of exercise inherently take longer than that?

Seems they just picked a number out of thin air and went with it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding the hour exercise "limit" - clearly entirely unenforceable and utterly daft - did the government fail to realise that many people's preferred forms of exercise inherently take longer than that?

Seems they just picked a number out of thin air and went with it.

It was never a policy of any kind. It was something Gove made up in an interview when pushed for an answer - he was pushed about 3 times and gave up and said something, which it seems a very large number of people seemed to think was law.

 

[Scrotnig]

It was never a policy of any kind. It was something Gove made up in an interview when pushed for an answer - he was pushed about 3 times and gave up and said something, which it seems a very large number of people seemed to think was law.

It was law but only in Wales.

 

[bramling]

Point is - if the UK government takes us back to where we were in March, full lockdown, hour's exercise etc then that would be an admission that their approach has failed dismally.

No-one on this government (ie Cummings) would ever admit to failure, so the chances of being in full lockdown again are remote. But if we did, and thy followed the same process again (longlockdown, gradual re-opening, send the schools back) then there's nothing in the rule book that says figures like todays won't reoccur again.

The only hope, other thana vaccine, is that the number of deaths becomes/stays at a trickle despite the rise of cases. If it's the young that are the issue, then they are much less likely to die than the elderly,so the death figures should remain low and stable if the elderly continue to be protected.

I’d like to be able to agree with the premise that another lockdown would be seen as failure, however I think in practice they would find a way of blaming it on a particular group - perhaps students or young people in general, or perhaps coming up with some nonsense like some people haven’t been complying with their diktat on masks.

However there is a reason why a full lockdown is unlikely - namely that I think they have come to realise that it’s unaffordable. Indeed I don’t think any of them expected the last one to drag on in the way it did, and for things like furlough to have gone on for over six months. Likewise they know that it they don’t do such measures, or in some cases even if they do, there will be job losses and business failures on a scale never seen before, which is something they won’t recover from before 2025, and likewise Boris would be a very unpopular person. Can’t have that, can we?!

 

[Howardh]

I’d like to be able to agree with the premise that another lockdown would be seen as failure, however I think in practice they would find a way of blaming it on a particular group - perhaps students or young people in general, or perhaps coming up with some nonsense like some people haven’t been complying with their diktat on masks.

However there is a reason why a full lockdown is unlikely - namely that I think they have come to realise that it’s unaffordable. Indeed I don’t think any of them expected the last one to drag on in the way it did, and for things like furlough to have gone on for over six months. Likewise they know that it they don’t do such measures, or in some cases even if they do, there will be job losses and business failures on a scale never seen before, which is something they won’t recover from before 2025, and likewise Boris would be a very unpopular person. Can’t have that, can we?!

They must now all be thinking they's lost the election!! Just think, Labour would have these problems, and then the fall-out over Brexit (Kent into a lorry park, tarrifs, immigration etc etc) and I'll bet that if Covid and the bad figures (in their minds as we keep being restricted) continue into the new year, they will find a way of calling an election just to get rid.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

I wish more people would see it. From a personal viewpoint I see worrying signs around my social circles of things getting steadily worse for everyone, from losing jobs through to mental wellbeing, things are deteriorating. From a professional viewpoint, I see even more worrying signs of what is to come, especially with regards to jobs & incomes (I can't expand on this much unfortunately, other than to say the end of this month might be very telling).

I work in theatre and events, an industry which is pretty much still closed either directly by legislation or by the reduction in capacity from distancing rendering events unprofitable. Yesterday saw a global day of demonstrations to highlight the issues and ask for targeted government support. According the UK Chancellor our entire multi-billion pound industry and the 600,000+ workers are apparently "unviable"

It was noticeable at the Edinburgh demo last night how much more subdued people were from the first demo in early August. After the initial lift of seeing folk we hadn't seen in months, talk was pretty gloomy. Up until the recent announcements of 6months+ tight restrictions we had hope that some activity might restart over the next couple of months on small scale and then build from there. Six months pushes us to a full year of near 100% shutdown and increasingly we can't see a way to survive in business that long.

It's taking an increasing toll on peoples heath and mental wellbeing - the light at the end of the tunnel keeps moving further away and people are losing hope.
We don't have verified figures but we know there has been an sharp increase in suicide in the industry, a lot of workers are freelance and have found themselves isolated from their support circles.
It's not just the loss of work and the financial effects but the sudden loss of a entire career, way of life and , to an extent, your identity (particularly harsh for performers) - that's a bitter pill to swallow

It was unsettling to see how far some folk had dipped already and this will just get worse as we move into winter - the restrictions on socialising are making it all the harder to try and help
Theatrefolk have a love/hate relationship with Panto but it's going to be a pretty grim December without it

 

[PHILIPE]

Due to some local restrictions being introduced later today in Wales, people from Wales will be unable to climb Snowdon but people from the rest of the world will. The First Minister of Wales requested Bozzo to impose some restrictions, especially with the high incidence of cases in the not so far away North West of England primarily in mind, but was met with a refusal.

 

[kristiang85]

And the virus isn't wreaking the lives of the vast majority of people who get it. However a stalling economy, combined with job losses, lost income, lost taxes, a health service in semi-lockdown, not being able to properly socialise with family & friends, and a constant stream of covid-mania whittling down people's will to live could end up wreaking an awful lot more people than covid could. But they don't matter do they?

Indeed. This big picture is getting utterly lost.

I'm a very positive person, and I've been getting through this year knowing it will be over soon. But last week's announcement has hit that for six, and I'm feeling really drained about it all now. I know a couple of people who got COVID, but they are absolutely fine, and only had 1-2 miserable days (but we all have with various bugs in the past). But I know many more people who have lost jobs (three this week alone), others are really suffering with mental health and loneliness, and yet another person (a former colleague) who was recently diagnosed with terminal cancer in her 40s, despite suffering symptoms all year but only getting checked properly in late summer due to delays getting appointments. It would probably have been treatable had she been seen earlier in the year.

I'm really lucky in that I have my health, a stable job that I can work from home with, and I live with my other half, so I don't want to complain too much. My issues are very 'First World Problems' - just little things like now having secret chats with certain groups of only 6 people so we can meet up without offending others we would normally be with, or not just being able to eat out spontaneously, or constantly having travel plans cancelled this year, or even worrying I can't see my parents in Scotland this Christmas (normally I will be booking it by now). And seeing so many people I care about in not a great place, all because of something that I just can't justify in my mind makes all this necessary. It is really really draining. It was justified in April when we didn't know what we were dealing with, but surely the statistics show now that this infringement on our daily lives is really not necessary?