the most over the top restrictions introduced

[43096]

We will and as one who works in education and tried it I can guarantee it's no substitute for those learning being in a room with the person teaching them. I'll admit it works for some but they are in the minority.

In a different context, no different from doing things at work as an adult. Training doesn't work very well on Zoom. Neither does problem solving in a group. It's not hard to see how the same would apply in education, only more so.

 

[Richard Scott]

In a different context, no different from doing things at work as an adult. Training doesn't work very well on Zoom. Neither does problem solving in a group. It's not hard to see how the same would apply in education, only more so.

Got to agree having been in that position also.

 

[johntea]

I just did a week long remote training course for work and hated absolutely every minute of it, I came away feeling I had learnt very little

In a classroom I might still hate absolutely every minute of it but at least I'm there meeting others (I have made some very good friends in the past on training courses, in one instance ending up in a rather drunken night round Bristol!) and am committed into paying attention

 

[trebor79]

I really struggle to pay attention in online meetings. I struggle anyway, but I have the added distraction of what's going on in the rest of the house. Or I start browsing the web and contributing to rail forums, whilst someone drones on. Then I hear "...what do you think Rob?" Umm, run that by me again, I'm not sure I follow...
I've tried online learning before and it just doesn't work for me, even something that I'm totally into and motivated.
I recall my university days, one of our best lecturers always have a choice "handouts, PowerPoint, or chalk and talk and you scribble your own notes". The vote was always near unanimous for the latter option. Every step removed from in person engagement is a another step lost from the learning process IMV.

 

[takno]

I really struggle to pay attention in online meetings. I struggle anyway, but I have the added distraction of what's going on in the rest of the house. Or I start browsing the web and contributing to rail forums, whilst someone drones on. Then I hear "...what do you think Rob?" Umm, run that by me again, I'm not sure I follow...
I've tried online learning before and it just doesn't work for me, even something that I'm totally into and motivated.
I recall my university days, one of our best lecturers always have a choice "handouts, PowerPoint, or chalk and talk and you scribble your own notes". The vote was always near unanimous for the latter option. Every step removed from in person engagement is a another step lost from the learning process IMV.

To be fair I'm more than capable of spending entire in-person meetings browsing rail forums on my phone. It is even easier when its right there in another tab though. I think I'm going to start putting my Google meets in a separate window so that all the more interesting stuff is hidden

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Ok. That definitely fits with the most over the top restrictions introduced.

3 metres is just totally unnecessary and you may as well not come onto campus at all if they're going to do that. At 3 metres you need to use the largest lecture theatre to just fit a small group of students in. How ridiculous.

30 minutes for deep cleaning every time also seems incredibly excessive.

Ah, so THAT’S where all the new jobs Rishi Sunak wants people to re-train for will be created ?

 

[DelayRepay]

I have to deliver a work training session every now and again. Normally I look forward to it, I have a few slides I use in the background but it's mostly me explaining and discussing things. There's a full pack of documents that we share (in paper format) and I normally see people writing notes, highlighting things etc. as I go through the session. I encourage (and get) questions and it's quite interactive.

This week, for the first time, I did it on Zoom. I had more people (because we've missed a couple of sessions, and because we weren't limited by room capacity), but I got hardly any responses, questions or comments despite regular prompting. To the extent that I messaged someone from my team who was on the call to ask if my microphone was actually working. At one point, someone who wasn't on mute decided to take a personal phone call, which would never have happened in a face to face class. Another person on the call was doing their emails - I know this because my team member was copied into some and she told me afterwards.

The session normally takes 90 minutes but we finished a bit early due to the lack of engagement. Afterwards, I felt drained of energy.

We also run another, more advanced course which covers another part of our department's work. Normally when I mention it at the end of my session, I get a few people ask to put their name down. This time, nothing.

It's work, not school, but the same must apply. Maybe you can make this stuff work online, but it's not as simple as just taking the classroom based training and doing it online. I'm not sure what to do next - there doesn't seem much point in repeating this all in a couple of months. May as well just make a recorded version for people to watch when they want.

 

[Bantamzen]

To be fair I'm more than capable of spending entire in-person meetings browsing rail forums on my phone. It is even easier when its right there in another tab though. I think I'm going to start putting my Google meets in a separate window so that all the more interesting stuff is hidden

This is exactly what happens in the real world. As an example I was on an online event on Thursday, involving about 80 or so people on a Teams meeting. Literally within minutes my teams own private Teams chat lit up, I got up several times to make coffee, my mind drifted from the event and ended up on here, and by the end about a third of the attendees had dropped off the call altogether. Now these events are usually held in office as a chance to meet up (we are a very spread out group, spanning almost the entire length of the UK), and in these situations laptops are closed, breaks are fairly formal and most importantly of all eye contact can be made at all times. Anyone that's ever presented anything to a group will tell you that eye contact, or the lack of is so very important because it tells you if people are engaged, distracted or just simply bored. You simply cannot replicate that remotely.

And this is why a believe that remote teaching simply won't work, teachers need to know if the kids are engaged, bored or maybe even struggling with a subject. They need that feedback, and the kids need to be able to properly interact with the teachers.

 

[DelayRepay]

This is exactly what happens in the real world. As an example I was on an online event on Thursday, involving about 80 or so people on a Teams meeting. Literally within minutes my teams own private Teams chat lit up, I got up several times to make coffee, my mind drifted from the event and ended up on here, and by the end about a third of the attendees had dropped off the call altogether.

Same here - I used to look forward to those kind of events, not just for the subject matter but also to catch up with people I've not seen for a while, float ideas etc. The coffee breaks and interactive sessions were in my view more valuable than the more formal part of the meeting.

For the online versions, perhaps I am naughty but I've worked out how to transfer the meeting between my laptop and phone, so now I regularly transfer the meetings to my phone and go to make coffee, sit in the lounge/garden reading the paper etc. There is a two hour meeting we have quite regularly and I now look at the agenda, not to see what we're talking about but to work out the best time to schedule my coffee break!

Even if you do get caught out, you can do the 'sorry, pressed disconnect instead of mute' routine. It was very helpful of Microsoft to put those buttons almost next to each other in Teams!

 

[talldave]

The coffee breaks and interactive sessions were in my view more valuable than the more formal part of the meeting.

So true. In my own world of technology standards, all disputes and disagreements were resolved over a coffee. I soon realised the job was 80% politics and 20% technical.

 

[C J Snarzell]

McDonald's yet again amazes me with OTT restrictions. I was in a McDs this morning at 9am and there were two other customers sat at the other end of the restaurant. I was on own waiting near the till and I was told by the jobsworth I actually needed to stand on the yellow circle not three inches from it! I was stood on my own in the middle of several yards of vacant floor space. Ridiculous.

CJ

 

[Huntergreed]

McDonald's yet again amazes me with OTT restrictions. I was in a McDs this morning at 9am and there were two other customers sat at the other end of the restaurant. I was on own waiting near the till and I was told by the jobsworth I actually needed to stand on the yellow circle not three inches from it! I was stood on my own in the middle of several yards of vacant floor space. Ridiculous.

CJ

Just think about how dangerous that was and how many lives have been saved by that!

 

[Howardh]

We're all dancing in the streets tonight here in Bolton, they've allowed us to have facials again! What an absolute relief. Makes up for not going for a pint or a curry. https://twitter.com/boltoncouncil/status/1309892105096003586

UPDATE: Salons can resume close contact services and takeaways in Bolton can now make deliveries after 10pm, the government has confirmed:

Services such as face treatments can resume

Hospitality can continue food deliveries after 10pm

 

[birchesgreen]

McDonald's yet again amazes me with OTT restrictions. I was in a McDs this morning at 9am and there were two other customers sat at the other end of the restaurant. I was on own waiting near the till and I was told by the jobsworth I actually needed to stand on the yellow circle not three inches from it! I was stood on my own in the middle of several yards of vacant floor space. Ridiculous.

CJ

If you stand on the yellow circle the other patrons will be SAFE

 

[221129]

If you stand on the yellow circle the other patrons will be SAFE

The other non existent patrons....

 

[C J Snarzell]

If you stand on the yellow circle the other patrons will be SAFE

The circles are ideal when the restaurant is busy, but I was literally stood in the middle of wide open floor space on my own with no one around. I was still stood inbetween two circles but not actually stood on a specific one. The yellow circles are proportionate in busy environments but not when there is no one else around!

CJ

 

[birchesgreen]

The other non existent patrons....

Doesn't matter if they are there or not, they are still SAFE

 

[317 forever]

And now the government is actively considering refusing to rule out banning students from returning home during the Christmas holidays.

Hancock refuses to rule out Christmas student lockdown

Matt Hancock refuses to rule out stopping students returning home, to limit spread of coronavirus.

www.bbc.co.uk

How the hell do you enforce this rule, especially for students who live off the main campus in private rented accommodation.

There is also the matter of whether student canteens will stay open all over Christmas. A few students don't know how to cook. So, how would they feed themselves whilst isolated at Uni over Christmas?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is also the matter of whether student canteens will stay open all over Christmas. A few students don't know how to cook. So, how would they feed themselves whilst isolated at Uni over Christmas?

Seriously?

If you can't cook, you learn to cook. They are going to have to at some point or eat artery-furring takeaways their whole lives. There's enough on the Internet to help you learn.

Most (almost all?) halls are self catering these days anyway.

 

[birchesgreen]

International students often do spent Christmas in their accommodation so there will be preparations.

 

[Freightmaster]

If you stand on the yellow circle the other patrons will be SAFE

No no no!

If you stand on the yellow circle the other patrons will be CovidSECURE™





MARK

 

[Skimpot flyer]

McDonald's yet again amazes me with OTT restrictions. I was in a McDs this morning at 9am and there were two other customers sat at the other end of the restaurant. I was on own waiting near the till and I was told by the jobsworth I actually needed to stand on the yellow circle not three inches from it! I was stood on my own in the middle of several yards of vacant floor space. Ridiculous.

CJ

Absolutely daft.
I take it you weren’t getting a Happy Meal ?

 

[takno]

Seriously?

If you can't cook, you learn to cook. They are going to have to at some point or eat artery-furring takeaways their whole lives. There's enough on the Internet to help you learn.

Most (almost all?) halls are self catering these days anyway.

There are millions of people in this country who literally never cook, whether because they have a partner to deal with that sort of thing, just eat takeaways (which certainly aren't all unhealthy these days), or mostly eat out in restaurants.

In uni plenty of students don't learn, and increasingly they are in bedsit-style rooms with a barely usable kitchen anyway. There are a lot of catered halls still scattered about the place, but also substantial refectories serving VAT-free hot food on campus.

If you are keeping 17 and 18 year-olds imprisoned over Christmas, it's not really decent to not feed them *and* mock them for their lack of domestic skills.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you are keeping 17 and 18 year-olds imprisoned over Christmas, it's not really decent to not feed them *and* mock them for their lack of domestic skills.

They'll be bored with little to do. It's an important life skill which everyone should learn. Youtube is full of videos about it. There is not a single student anywhere in the UK that doesn't know where Youtube is.

I'm sorry, this is beyond ridiculous and the most ludicrous piece of hand-wringing I've seen so far.

Nobody is suggesting they make gourmet meals, just healthy, simple stuff.

 

[trebor79]

And now the government is actively considering refusing to rule out banning students from returning home during the Christmas holidays.

Hancock refuses to rule out Christmas student lockdown

Matt Hancock refuses to rule out stopping students returning home, to limit spread of coronavirus.

www.bbc.co.uk

How the hell do you enforce this rule, especially for students who live off the main campus in private rented accommodation.

Disgusting and ridiculous.
I love how Wee Jimmy Krankie airly says that the students are "deemed" to have formed a new household, for the Scottish students presently in this situation.
Deemed by whom? Where is "household" defined in law?
Surely if the act of walking into your student residence "deems" you to have joined a household, the act of returning home for a weekend must "deem" you to have (re)joined that household?
If I was one of those students I'd be doing whatever I wished to. I'd tell the private security to go forth and multiply if they challenged me. AFAIK there is no provision in law for anybody to be confined to a bedroom or building, unless they have returned from abroad. And even then there is provision to honour for exercise and to buy food etc.
I'm kind of hoping the politicians keep pushing it to far, just so that the whole house of nonsense cards falls down.

 

[Richard Scott]

Disgusting and ridiculous.
I love how Wee Jimmy Krankie airly says that the students are "deemed" to have formed a new household, for the Scottish students presently in this situation.
Deemed by whom? Where is "household" defined in law?
Surely if the act of walking into your student residence "deems" you to have joined a household, the act of returning home for a weekend must "deem" you to have (re)joined that household?
If I was one of those students I'd be doing whatever I wished to. I'd tell the private security to go forth and multiply if they challenged me. AFAIK there is no provision in law for anybody to be confined to a bedroom or building, unless they have returned from abroad. And even then there is provision to honour for exercise and to buy food etc.
I'm kind of hoping the politicians keep pushing it to far, just so that the whole house of nonsense cards falls down.

In all seriousness it seems there was more freedom in East Germany with the Stasi than there is now. I know there aren't mountains of paperwork on each citizen but some people aren't allowed to see family as can't leave their area, we may as well not be allowed to go abroad, we're encouraged to drop our neighbours in it if they dare have more than 6 people round, we are being encouraged to have an app that could confine us to home for 14 days in an instant and now telling youngsters they may not be allowed to spend Christmas with their parents. What have we become. Even Jeremy Corbyn must think this is a little too controlled even for him?

 

[trebor79]

In all seriousness it seems there was more freedom in East Germany with the Stasi than there is now. I know there aren't mountains of paperwork on each citizen but some people aren't allowed to see family as can't leave their area, we may as well not be allowed to go abroad, we're encouraged to drop our neighbours in it if they dare have more than 6 people round, we are being encouraged to have an app that could confine us to home for 14 days in an instant and now telling youngsters they may not be allowed to spend Christmas with their parents. What have we become. Even Jeremy Corbyn must think this is a little to controlled even for him?

This gets to the nub of it. Once people so amazing like sheep the whole house of cards will collapse. I suggest how many of these students have lawyer parents?

 

[takno]

They'll be bored with little to do. It's an important life skill which everyone should learn. Youtube is full of videos about it. There is not a single student anywhere in the UK that doesn't know where Youtube is.

I'm sorry, this is beyond ridiculous and the most ludicrous piece of hand-wringing I've seen so far.

Nobody is suggesting they make gourmet meals, just healthy, simple stuff.

Maybe they'll be able to post pictures of themselves eating beans on toast for Christmas dinner on YouTube and so you can have a good old laugh at them.

 

[Scrotnig]

I'm sorry, this is beyond ridiculous and the most ludicrous piece of hand-wringing I've seen so far.

No, what's beyond ridiculous is the idea that we can imprison innocent civilians in a tiny room without them having committed any offence.

 

[BJames]

Seriously?

If you can't cook, you learn to cook. They are going to have to at some point or eat artery-furring takeaways their whole lives. There's enough on the Internet to help you learn.

Most (almost all?) halls are self catering these days anyway.

I would agree as it's a good skill, but it's genuinely not always possible in halls. For example, we had an interesting (and admittedly quite unusual for these days) setup in my hall (I left last year and am now in private accommodation) - it was fully catered, with the only "cooking" facilities being a microwave, toaster and kettle in a pantry, which you share between the 20 of you on a corridor (needless to say we didn't really use it). I wish there had been actual kitchen facilities to supplement the catered offering but the fact is that there wasn't. The good thing was that I could always go over to my friends in self catered for a different meal if needed... not possible this year given the restrictions on halls.

But we also didn't pay for the time we weren't supposed to be there, i.e. Christmas and Easter. So confining students to halls at Christmas at my university would require either a) the University to pay for our rent and food over Christmas, b) the University to pay for our rent and students to pay for the hall to provide food, or c) students to pay for both rent and food, which is either brought to you or you buy out every day. None of these options are ideal.