The Leigh Guided Busway construction project

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There has been mention made of this, mostly in passing, on other threads, so I think that a dedicated thread should be here to let members talk about it without having to cross-refer from one thread to another.

As there was doubt as to the current situation of this project, could people with specific knowledge of this kindly post updated information.

 

[Nym]

As I have to be out soon, here's the short awnser...

No! Just no! Spend the extra £20mil and get a proper railway line into Walkden, spend another £15mil on top and have it as a 25KV OHL into Salford Crescent.

I'll give a very long list of reasons why later if so desired...

 

[Buttsy]

Last thing you want is a guided busway, just ask those in St Ives, Histon etc...

 

[gordonthemoron]

TBF, they seem to be OK in Leeds

 

[Nym]

They are a very different layout in Leeds though.

 

[northwichcat]

Would part of the idea of having them in Leeds be in preparation for the proposed trolleybus system?

 

[gordonthemoron]

they were installed way before the trolley buses were thought of, probably late 90s

 

[yorksrob]

In Leeds you tend to have a lot of large urban motorways which run through extensive urban areas and get particularly busy as you get towards the centre of town. These already carried a variety of local bus services so it made sense to seperate these buses from the rest of the traffic(although I can't really see what 's the benefit of having a guided busway as opposed to a traditional bus lane (other than to allow the driver to put his feet up for ten minutes)).

The sort of busways proposed for Leigh and built for St Ives tend to duplicate sections of road between the busy urban centres, dumping the bus traffic into those busy areas near to the city centre and offering little benefit other than a marginal time increase for a small number of buses between those centres (presumably those living alongside the main road will still need to get the bus so the busway will only actually carry a proportion of non-stop buses between the two centres anyway).

Essentially a cheapo way of getting something built because no-one want's to pay to re-instate a railway, which really would make a difference.

 

[gordonthemoron]

except it isn't cheap at all

 

[yorksrob]

except it isn't cheap at all

Indeed.

 

[Nym]

Why does it need to be a guided busway, why not just build a road at half the price?

Or build a railway if you can...

 

[WatcherZero]

Guided increases the speed compared to the same width of unguided road. Essentially it reduces journey times compared to just having normal road.

 

[ACE1888]

Has the St Ives 'farce' actually been finished yet/running etc??

 

[jopsuk]

pretty much finished; going to be opening on the 7th August- I think the southern section (to the hospital and park & ride from the railway station) will now open at the same time, as it too is finished!

 

[185]

Leigh needs a guided busway.

It would have:
Metal Guide Rails
Leyland National Buses
err With.... train wheels.

Yep. A Busway: http://www.ehattons.com/images/products/R2611_1.jpg

I'm hoping that's how we can sell it to the idiots at TGfMZQPLOPTE

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

pretty much finished; going to be opening on the 7th August- I think the southern section (to the hospital and park & ride from the railway station) will now open at the same time, as it too is finished!

Thank you for this information. It was a posting WITH INFORMATION on the scheme that I was seeking when I first posted this thread. There has been no end of speculation regarding this project.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This project, set in the "forgotten" South-West area of Greater Manchester, surfaces from time to time in threads. Has anyone any specific news to give with how far discussions went with the residents of Leigh that were supposed to take place? Have TfGM any specific information on the project that will give people some idea on matters.

I am not looking for speculation or "uninformed comment". Just any hard facts, please.

 

[HSTEd]

The Leigh route looks fairly good for Metrolink (I know im probably going to be hated for suggesting tramification) as there is right of way clear almost all the way to the end of the Eccles line.
You would only need a mile or two at each end on road to allow through running from central Manchester to Leigh Bus station, you could also connect with rail services at Walkden and Patricroft using said trackbed and others like it, permitting people who want to go places other than Manchester to change easily.

 

[WatcherZero]

They engaged with the group, managed to persuade the leader of the group it was worthwhile when they showed them the evidence base, Wigan Council made the concession they would examine the need for more rail stations in the Borough in their LTP, TfGMC proposed a publicity campaign leafleting the area to make residents aware of the benefits.

 

[Nym]

The problem with Metrolink on that route is the amount of time it would take, you'd be better building a slightly more expensive line and connecting it in with the Atherton Loop, would be 15mins quicker into Manchester and proberbly 25 - 30mins quicker into Victoria.

PS: I'm only against the conversion of current lines to Metrolink, not building new ones AS metrolink. unless heavy rail makes much more sense (leigh is a grey area, but I think it should tend more toward heavy rail via Walkden

 

[snail]

The Leigh route looks fairly good for Metrolink (I know im probably going to be hated for suggesting tramification) as there is right of way clear almost all the way to the end of the Eccles line.

It takes around 30 minutes to Eccles by tram, an extension to Leigh would make it an impractically long journey. I doubt people would use it to get to Manchester. Much better to connect somehow to a heavy rail link. Or build the busway.

 

[Nym]

Noooo... No BUSWAY!

It's bad enough that they have hacked up the A6 at Chapel Street, don't take away the A580 aswell, the M602 will never move again if the A580 goes, let alone the M60!

 

[WatcherZero]

I think theres a flaw in assuming people only want to get into the regional centre. Sure its the most important but the other main employment areas are Trafford, Salford Quays and Manchester Airport. Many Leigh residents are employed in Salford and Trafford, indeed Peel are proposing a housing estate in Leigh mainly as a dormitory for their Salford developments.

 

[HSTEd]

It takes around 30 minutes to Eccles by tram, an extension to Leigh would make it an impractically long journey. I doubt people would use it to get to Manchester. Much better to connect somehow to a heavy rail link. Or build the busway.

There is the question about traffic not neccesarily going into central Manchester such as traffic to Salford, especially with all the new developments in that area.
A Metrolink solution doesn't neccesarily preclude people going into central Manchester on the train as they could easily change at Walkden, to take the faster train the rest of the way into the centre.

 

[Nym]

Equally, if they built a metrolink line from Bolton to Trafford, and the heavy rail line from Leigh to Walkden then on to Victoria, anyone wanting to go to Trafford, Eccles, Bolton or Swindon could change at Walkden for the Metrolink, all it would need then would be intergrated ticketing!

 

[tbtc]

I think theres a flaw in assuming people only want to get into the regional centre. Sure its the most important but the other main employment areas are Trafford, Salford Quays and Manchester Airport. Many Leigh residents are employed in Salford and Trafford, indeed Peel are proposing a housing estate in Leigh mainly as a dormitory for their Salford developments.

This is true, but for any public transport to work it means targetting the "bulk" flows.

 

[ivanhoe]

The issue here is not what transport system is best, but what system is likely to attract motorists . That is the problem nationally as well. It would have to be clean, frequent and go where people want to go. That's why heavy rail is not an option for Leigh, but an aspiration. That leaves either Tram or guided / express bus system. A carefully thought out guided bus system is probably the best option but buses will need priority once they are running off the guides. Motorists will be attracted if smart looking buses with wifi are moving past them as they are stuck in traffic.

Whether the Leigh guided bus system will do that, is something else. On another point, Leigh has frequent bus links to Warrington which is an important centre in itself for the sub region which includes Leigh, Golborne, Newton , Culceth etc.

 

[yorksrob]

The issue here is not what transport system is best, but what system is likely to attract motorists . That is the problem nationally as well. It would have to be clean, frequent and go where people want to go. That's why heavy rail is not an option for Leigh, but an aspiration. That leaves either Tram or guided / express bus system. A carefully thought out guided bus system is probably the best option but buses will need priority once they are running off the guides. Motorists will be attracted if smart looking buses with wifi are moving past them as they are stuck in traffic.

Whether the Leigh guided bus system will do that, is something else. On another point, Leigh has frequent bus links to Warrington which is an important centre in itself for the sub region which includes Leigh, Golborne, Newton , Culceth etc.

I don't know - if attracting motorists really is the be-all and end-all (and there are lots of people who use public transport who don't drive anyway) , are they really likely to be attracted to a bus service ? even a fastish one like a guided bus way. Is there the room (or money) after the busway to have a traditional bus lane everywhere else the bus needs to go ?

 

[ivanhoe]

I don't know - if attracting motorists really is the be-all and end-all (and there are lots of people who use public transport who don't drive anyway) , are they really likely to be attracted to a bus service ? even a fastish one like a guided bus way. Is there the room (or money) after the busway to have a traditional bus lane everywhere else the bus needs to go ?

Bus lanes are only required on the major routes into town centres. It's not a lot of investment but the motoring lobby and local shopkeepers usually fight hard against them. Having a bus lane for 100 metres is a waste of money. Yet throughout the country, short stretches exist. The Country has no real policy. Busways speed up buses until they hit the outskirts of centres and they then get stuck in traffic. As I have said, a few extra miles of bus lanes could make some people say, ' the bus is quicker' let's use it for work'. I'll dream on ! Ps , I also own a car

 

[Nym]

Simple fact is most car drivers will not be attracted by a bus, or usually even a tram, but will be by a train, just look how many drivers park at Bolton, Lostock and Horwich Parkway and get the train into Manchester.

If only there where longer trains and bigger car parks.

It has to be mentioned that Horwich Parkway is a massive lost opportunity at the moment, it could be a massive P&R for all of Manchester and Salford from the North, instead it has a tiny car park and short trains.

Leigh needs heavy rail, simple as, trams won't attract passengers if they go to Eccles because of the amount of time they take, and the're usually more expensive, buses will still be buses, Heavy Rail will get passengers into Victoria in 30mins, trams wouldn't, buses certainly wouldn't, guided or not.

And if the line between Walkden and Victoria sees improvment and electrification (as a result of Leigh having 2tph and it then being worth it, then the gaps to Wigan closed of course) then journey times from Leigh and Atherton could be on a par with journey times from Bolton. And them services are quite popular...