The Key - Some questions

[andrewkeith5]

Hi all,

It's been a very long time since I've spent much time on here sadly (to be honest, I was put off by the Southern strikes way back when and got tired of reading and listening to the arguments!)

However - it will soon be time for me to learn how to be a commuter again. A scary thought, considering I now live in the realms of South England and will be using Thameslink/Southern instead of Chiltern Railways

I know many of you don't like smartcards, but I am fairly keen to go ahead and get a Thameslink Key to avoid the general annoyance of paper tickets, and there are a few things that would be useful to know from anyone who has experience of such things. I've read the mega thread and looked at the website as best as I can but still not completely sure:

1. Do I have to order and receive a Key before I can go ahead and order a ticket to load onto it?
   
2. Am I going to need to get a photocard, or is any Photo ID acceptable?
3. How long should I leave to make sure everything arrives and is done in time for when I need it - i.e. receiving the card, activating it, buying the ticket, activating that, and receiving the gold record card?
4. I'm torn on KeyGo. I can't imagine getting any useful benefit in terms of train tickets, as I still think it's crazy that it doesn't take into account the fact that if you have an annual season ticket then of course you get gold card privileges. However, I can see it being very useful on the buses where it seems to offer the same pricing as the bus company apps but without having to use an app. Are there any other drawbacks though?

Thank you to you all in advance and I'm looking forward to hopefully becoming more of a regular contributor after my extended period of absence!

 

[Surreytraveller]

To be honest, if you need to ask these questions then perhaps you should stick with paper tickets, as this sort of information should be readily available on the their website.
I've never used the Key, but from what I've heard and read it causes all sorts of problems, and its difficult these days to find a member of GTR staff who's competent / motivated / actually in a position to fix any problems.

 

[andrewkeith5]

To be honest, if you need to ask these questions then perhaps you should stick with paper tickets, as this sort of information should be readily available on the their website.
I've never used the Key, but from what I've heard and read it causes all sorts of problems, and its difficult these days to find a member of GTR staff who's competent / motivated / actually in a position to fix any problems.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but as I already said I know there are people who would rather smartcards didn't exist but I am of the opinion that it would be a more beneficial medium for me than a paper ticket.

I posed the questions because although I am fairly confident that I know the answers from what I have seen and read, I prefer to be certain before proceeding. Frankly the information is no better or worse than the vast majority of anything the rail industry produce! In fact it's remarkably comprehensive compared to some of the publications I see from some train operators...

 

[Surreytraveller]

I don't have a problem with smartcards, and I am happy to embrace technology. I just do not think GTR are capable as an organisation of managing them.

 

[Hadders]

I know several colleagues who commute using a season ticket loaded on The Key. For a simple regular point to point commute it's fine. Problems can occur if you try to do something different like:

- break of journey
- use a different TOC who might claim it isn't valid
- use it as part of a split for a longer journey

etc.

 

[alistairlees]

I have the Key annual season on Southeastern, commuting from High Brooms to Waterloo East daily. It's much more durable than paper, and I've had no problems with it.

On train staff either scan or just look at it; never any issues on SE.

I frequently use it to get off at Tonbridge, it works the barriers there fine. I think it does at Sevenoaks too.

I also use it on Southern services between Tonbridge and Redhill (High Brooms to London is valid via Redhill). No problems with Southern guards. It doesn't work the gates at Redhill though, but I'm always let through there without issues. Same at East Croydon.

All the London Terminals that are valid are fine - at least Charing Cross, Waterloo East, London Bridge, Cannon St and Blackfriars. I don't think I've tried the others.

At Waterloo East it lets you through the Underground exit (via Southwark tube) with no problems - three sets of barriers (SE / LU / LU) every day each way!

In answer to your questions:
1. yes (and you will need to specify the loading station)
2. you don't need a photocard or photo ID
3. At least week, pref two. My Gold Record Card took almost two weeks to turn up.
4. Never tried KeyGo

There are many things wrong with ITSO (the underlying technology) of course, but that's not really your issue here. And it would take far too long to describe all the issues with ITSO!

 

[andrewkeith5]

I know several colleagues who commute using a season ticket loaded on The Key. For a simple regular point to point commute it's fine. Problems can occur if you try to do something different like:

- break of journey
- use a different TOC who might claim it isn't valid
- use it as part of a split for a longer journey

etc.

I have the Key annual season on Southeastern, commuting from High Brooms to Waterloo East daily. It's much more durable than paper, and I've had no problems with it.

On train staff either scan or just look at it; never any issues on SE.

I frequently use it to get off at Tonbridge, it works the barriers there fine. I think it does at Sevenoaks too.

I also use it on Southern services between Tonbridge and Redhill (High Brooms to London is valid via Redhill). No problems with Southern guards. It doesn't work the gates at Redhill though, but I'm always let through there without issues. Same at East Croydon.

All the London Terminals that are valid are fine - at least Charing Cross, Waterloo East, London Bridge, Cannon St and Blackfriars. I don't think I've tried the others.

At Waterloo East it lets you through the Underground exit (via Southwark tube) with no problems - three sets of barriers (SE / LU / LU) every day each way!

In answer to your questions:
1. yes (and you will need to specify the loading station)
2. you don't need a photocard or photo ID
3. At least week, pref two. My Gold Record Card took almost two weeks to turn up.
4. Never tried KeyGo

There are many things wrong with ITSO (the underlying technology) of course, but that's not really your issue here. And it would take far too long to describe all the issues with ITSO!

Fantastic. Thanks to both of you for your help It sounds like everything should be OK then. I'll have to have a think about KeyGo but apart from that all seems in line with my expectations.

I agree about ITSO - like so very many things, such a shame that it just never really got done properly. It seems like it's come on a very long way since I was trying to get the original Southern Key to just work at all back in 2013!

 

[i4n]

To back up what Alistair has said, I commute on South Eastern (Ramsgate area into St Pancras) and have been using a Key since late last year. I initially transferred over my paper ticket as it had just over a month left to try it out and stuck with it for the renewal.

For me it's so much easier;

• I'm still on the same Key (I would have been on about my 4th paper ticket by now)
• It has opened any gate I've tried to go through as break of journey
• There was one time where the reader on the train wouldn't read my Key but the Guard said that they've been told that if there's anything amiss with a Key that have to treat it as if it's a valid ticket and let you continue your journey (but I always keep my record card with me to be safe)
• As I have a Zone 1 - 6 travel card on it as part of my ticket, it's opened TFL gates with no issues
• I also use Thameslink to get through the Core in London and the Thameslink ticket inspector's equipment read it fine

 

[andrewkeith5]

To back up what Alistair has said, I commute on South Eastern (Ramsgate area into St Pancras) and have been using a Key since late last year. I initially transferred over my paper ticket as it had just over a month left to try it out and stuck with it for the renewal.

For me it's so much easier;

• I'm still on the same Key (I would have been on about my 4th paper ticket by now)
• It has opened any gate I've tried to go through as break of journey
• There was one time where the reader on the train wouldn't read my Key but the Guard said that they've been told that if there's anything amiss with a Key that have to treat it as if it's a valid ticket and let you continue your journey (but I always keep my record card with me to be safe)
• As I have a Zone 1 - 6 travel card on it as part of my ticket, it's opened TFL gates with no issues
• I also use Thameslink to get through the Core in London and the Thameslink ticket inspector's equipment read it fine

Sounds like it's working pretty well then, especially with a Travelcard, which is good Thanks!

 

[button_boxer]

Sounds like it's working pretty well then, especially with a Travelcard, which is good Thanks!

From what I understand an outboundary travelcard on The Key is basically the same as an in-boundary one on Oyster within London except that you can’t use it for journeys beyond zone 6 (Watford Jn, far reaches of the Met, etc) or into zone 1 if the travelcard is 2-6 as it can’t do the PAYG extension fares.

 

[andrewkeith5]

From what I understand an outboundary travelcard on The Key is basically the same as an in-boundary one on Oyster within London except that you can’t use it for journeys beyond zone 6 (Watford Jn, far reaches of the Met, etc) or into zone 1 if the travelcard is 2-6 as it can’t do the PAYG extension fares.

Is there anything stopping you from using it in conjunction with a paper Boundary Zone ticket? Not so important but could be a useful thing to know.

This is something I do know is not possible if KeyGo is enabled...but without, I can’t see why not.

 

[Failed Unit]

Don’t use key go. It isn’t reliable enough you will spend ages disputing transactions which I am sure you have better things to do.

Examples
Season Welwyn Garden City - Blackfriars

Change at Kings Cross and Walk to St Pancras. Get charged between kings cross and Finsbury Park.

Travel from Welwyn North - City Thameslink get charged the entire journey not just the extra from Welwyn North - WGC. (You need to leave the train to only get charge the extra) it doesn’t automatically consider your season ticket entitlement.

Without season
Go to a London terminal such as Moorgate return from Kings Cross get charged 2 singles.

Don’t touch keyGo.

I normally get weekly tickets. No photo card required on these.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Don’t use key go. It isn’t reliable enough you will spend ages disputing transactions which I am sure you have better things to do.

Examples
Season Welwyn Garden City - Blackfriars

Change at Kings Cross and Walk to St Pancras. Get charged between kings cross and Finsbury Park.

Travel from Welwyn North - City Thameslink get charged the entire journey not just the extra from Welwyn North - WGC. (You need to leave the train to only get charge the extra) it doesn’t automatically consider your season ticket entitlement.

Without season
Go to a London terminal such as Moorgate return from Kings Cross get charged 2 singles.

Don’t touch keyGo.

I normally get weekly tickets. No photo card required on these.

Well that doesn't sound fun! Won't bother with KeyGo then - I'll just have to suffer continuing to use the app for the bus!

 

[alistairlees]

I normally get weekly tickets. No photo card required on these.

If these are paper weekly season tickets then you need a photocard?

 

[andrewkeith5]

If these are paper weekly season tickets then you need a photocard?

On smart card tickets, my understanding is that any photo ID is fine

 

[Failed Unit]

On smart card tickets, my understanding is that any photo ID is fine

Certainly was when I signed up. My driving license is fine. Saying that never being asked for anything else when challenged by an RPI

 

[alistairlees]

On smart card tickets, my understanding is that any photo ID is fine

No, you don't need any photo ID with The Key. See https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/tickets/the-key/key-faqs

 

[radamfi]

KeyGo charges you the Thameslink Only fare even if you have used Southern as the system can't tell which "company" you have used.

 

[sharpley]

I agree about ITSO - like so very many things, such a shame that it just never really got done properly. It seems like it's come on a very long way since I was trying to get the original Southern Key to just work at all back in 2013!

The Rail Delivery Group has an ITSO test room located in London, in the basement of an office block next to the museum of London. Its full of ticket barriers / validators / ticket machines from different suppliers, that can can be configured to whatever station they wish for testing purposes. Only been there for maybe a year / 18 months.