The Key on FGW

[johnnycache]

There are some rules about when single operator (dedicated) fares can be created

1) any operator can create a dedicated first class fare on flows on which it operates
2) any operator can create a dedicated advance train-specific fare on flows on which it operates
3) any operator can create a temporary promotional fare valid for no more than 12 weeks out of 52 on flows on which it operates
4) any operator that is not the lead operator can create dedicated fares on flows on which it operates
5) the lead operator can only create dedicated fares according to 1) 2) or 3) above

the lead operator is given on brfares for each flow

to take an example Brighton to Haywards Heath

the Lead Operator is Southern
therefore Southern cannot create a dedicated fare except in First Class, for Advance tickets or on a temporary promotional basis
First Capital Connect could create a dedicated fare

Why don't FCC create a dedicated fare for this flow?

The rationale for creating a dedicated fare is to improve the percentage revenue allocation
Southern don't operate trains between Brighton and Haywards Heath except in the morning peak, evenings and Sundays
First Capital Connect operate 4 trains per hour for most of the day
Therefore its likely that FCC already get over 90% of the revenue
So its not worth creating a lower priced ticket for the sake of a small increase in revenue share which might be offset by the price reduction anyway
If FCC were unhappy with the Southern fares they could apply to take ownership of the flow and given that they operate almost all the trains they would likely succeed
However if they are generally comfortable with the existing fares then best to leave things as they are

 

[talldave]

I thought I'd try the key out for the first time yesterday, but for my journey I wanted a Peak ticket into London and an Off-peak back out again. Went onto the Southern website and tried to buy the Smart versions of the tickets....website says "No", it'll only allow you to buy one ticket (despite the card being able to hold 5).

Southern, I despair, I really do!

 

[andrewkeith5]

I thought I'd try the key out for the first time yesterday, but for my journey I wanted a Peak ticket into London and an Off-peak back out again. Went onto the Southern website and tried to buy the Smart versions of the tickets....website says "No", it'll only allow you to buy one ticket (despite the card being able to hold 5).

Southern, I despair, I really do!

I find the southern website almost useless when it comes to the key (90% of the time it forgets I even have one).

Buying key tickets from a TVM is a far more enjoyable experience, although still pretty rubbish if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[Qwerty133]

There are some rules about when single operator (dedicated) fares can be created

1) any operator can create a dedicated first class fare on flows on which it operates
2) any operator can create a dedicated advance train-specific fare on flows on which it operates
3) any operator can create a temporary promotional fare valid for no more than 12 weeks out of 52 on flows on which it operates
4) any operator that is not the lead operator can create dedicated fares on flows on which it operates
5) the lead operator can only create dedicated fares according to 1) 2) or 3) above

the lead operator is given on brfares for each flow

to take an example Brighton to Haywards Heath

the Lead Operator is Southern
therefore Southern cannot create a dedicated fare except in First Class, for Advance tickets or on a temporary promotional basis
First Capital Connect could create a dedicated fare

Why don't FCC create a dedicated fare for this flow?

The rationale for creating a dedicated fare is to improve the percentage revenue allocation
Southern don't operate trains between Brighton and Haywards Heath except in the morning peak, evenings and Sundays
First Capital Connect operate 4 trains per hour for most of the day
Therefore its likely that FCC already get over 90% of the revenue
So its not worth creating a lower priced ticket for the sake of a small increase in revenue share which might be offset by the price reduction anyway
If FCC were unhappy with the Southern fares they could apply to take ownership of the flow and given that they operate almost all the trains they would likely succeed
However if they are generally comfortable with the existing fares then best to leave things as they are

How does MK to London work then? (VT only LM only and any permitted)

 

[bb21]

It is a special case with special historic arrangements.

 

[johnnycache]

there are a couple of exceptions

one is Gatwick Airport to London

originally all three operators were required to set dedicated fares
then when Gatwick Express merged with Southern it was agreed with the DfT that the Gatwick Express only fare would be replaced by Any Permitted but Southern and FCC would still have dedicated fares

Milton Keynes

LM is the lead operator and would not normally be allowed to set permanent dedicated fares. I understand that for off-peak tickets that rule has been relaxed given LM's hopeless competitive position if it has to charge more.

I'm not aware of any other exceptions

 

[Paul Kelly]

Milton Keynes

LM is the lead operator and would not normally be allowed to set permanent dedicated fares. I understand that for off-peak tickets that rule has been relaxed given LM's hopeless competitive position if it has to charge more.

That's interesting; I'd never heard that rationale before. Sounds a bit anti-competitive to me. Why can there not just be a price war, with LM lowering the Any Permitted fares to match the Virgin Only fares, in order that there is no incentive for intending Virgin passegers to restrict their choices for the return journey. In other words, similar to the Southern/FCC price war between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport from a couple of years ago. I seem to remember there was a while there that there was an FCC ONLY fare that was more expensive than the Any Permitted on that route.

 

[infobleep]

For a time it was cheaper to buy a return to Gatwick from Haywards Heath and then a ticket to London from there, with the choice of permitted companies. If you had a travel card the permitted operators could anyone once you reached the first station you stopped at in the zones. Might still be the case now.

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