the Increasingly Frustrating Thameslink

[talltim]

I only once caught the wrong train in 7 years of Thameslink commuting, ended up at Kings Cross TL instead of St Albans! I had an exam that day and managed to get back to St A in time for it, somehow

 

[jon0844]

Announcements on 313s are still an issue according to Twitter. Issue is from drivers that most of the 313 driver diagrams are very intense and quite simply we can't announce the approach to every station when stopping at 100+ in a day. If nothing else the thought of drivers regularly using the PA whilst braking for stations brings driver managers, ops standards managers and ORR inspectors out in a cold sweat! That kind of 'distraction' is exactly what leads to overruns, stop shorts and wrong side releases. In fact one of our drivers had a ride out with someone from the ORR who specifically told him to stop using the PA on the move.

But all that aside, as I say being asked to announce every station we stop at on some of the more intensive jobs is unrealistic.

I don't see any reason for a driver to make these announcements, but that does mean I think it should be a requirement for all trains (yes ALL trains) to have an automated system fitted to aid passengers, especially those with a visual/hearing impairment. The current system is wrong and unfair, for both rail staff and the customers who struggle to tell where they are on busy trains or when it's very late (and I've said before, some stations are poorly lit with signs that are almost invisible or so widely spaced you can't even see them in the daytime from every window/door).

Of course that has a cost, but so what? I also think CCTV is another must, and ROSCOs should have been forced to fit such systems to their fleets within a specific timeframe.

Perhaps by 2020 that will be that deadline, but it's crazy to have trains still going around without basic information - or asking drivers to do it. A driver should be announcing things that are out of the ordinary, and even some of that could be automated with messages sent from a central control to specific or all trains in any given area. (GPS making such things possible).

GTR and the ROSCO will of course know that with the 313s being replaced and possibly even scrapped in 2016, there's now no point in doing them. So that's at least another year or so without basic information being given.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As for announcements on the 313s and 319s, the calling pattern and main stations tend to be announced by the driver. The problem is is that the PA equipment is so old and knackered that you can't hear them unless the train is stopped dead. I think calling pattern is more than sufficient and demanding the driver do more than that is unrealistic.

Can't speak for the 319s as I don't use them often enough, but many of the 313s are pretty good. I think the PA system was updated (or at least serviced and fixed) because when you do get a driver doing announcements, they're usually VERY clear.

Perhaps some drivers speak better into the handset/mic than others. I've certainly heard muffled announcements even when the train is sitting at King's Cross, and I suspect the gain on the microphone is such that if you don't hold it properly then that will be the result.

On newer stock, perhaps the PA system has more sensitive microphones and this is less of a problem (as well as better quality speakers).

317s also got a new PA system with their screens and, again, announcements are usually crystal clear most of the time - but not always. Once again, I blame the mic/driver (if that sounds like anti-driver, shift more of the blame onto the microphone!).

 

[Tetchytyke]

Can't speak for the 319s as I don't use them often enough, but many of the 313s are pretty good. I think the PA system was updated (or at least serviced and fixed) because when you do get a driver doing announcements, they're usually VERY clear.

I was thinking of the 313s as I used to regularly do Bowes Park/Ally Pally-Moorgate as a commute. In the tunnel or going round the curve at Bounds Green you could hear nothing; it wasn't a loud mumble, it was clear just too quiet. I hope they've updated the speakers.

 

[Aictos]

I don't see any reason for a driver to make these announcements, but that does mean I think it should be a requirement for all trains (yes ALL trains) to have an automated system fitted to aid passengers, especially those with a visual/hearing impairment. The current system is wrong and unfair, for both rail staff and the customers who struggle to tell where they are on busy trains or when it's very late (and I've said before, some stations are poorly lit with signs that are almost invisible or so widely spaced you can't even see them in the daytime from every window/door).

Of course that has a cost, but so what? I also think CCTV is another must, and ROSCOs should have been forced to fit such systems to their fleets within a specific timeframe.

Perhaps by 2020 that will be that deadline, but it's crazy to have trains still going around without basic information - or asking drivers to do it. A driver should be announcing things that are out of the ordinary, and even some of that could be automated with messages sent from a central control to specific or all trains in any given area. (GPS making such things possible).

GTR and the ROSCO will of course know that with the 313s being replaced and possibly even scrapped in 2016, there's now no point in doing them. So that's at least another year or so without basic information being given.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Can't speak for the 319s as I don't use them often enough, but many of the 313s are pretty good. I think the PA system was updated (or at least serviced and fixed) because when you do get a driver doing announcements, they're usually VERY clear.

Perhaps some drivers speak better into the handset/mic than others. I've certainly heard muffled announcements even when the train is sitting at King's Cross, and I suspect the gain on the microphone is such that if you don't hold it properly then that will be the result.

On newer stock, perhaps the PA system has more sensitive microphones and this is less of a problem (as well as better quality speakers).

317s also got a new PA system with their screens and, again, announcements are usually crystal clear most of the time - but not always. Once again, I blame the mic/driver (if that sounds like anti-driver, shift more of the blame onto the microphone!).

Try 2018 before the Class 313 fleet says goodbye to the Great Northern as May 2018 is when it's replacements start to enter passenger service with full fleet in operation for December 2018.

So looking at minimum of 40 months before you get to use them

 

[jon0844]

Oops, sorry! Yes, I just realised 2018 is when the new trains will come. It's 2016 for some of the 377s to come over isn't it?

 

[Taunton]

All this concern about announcing every next station, as well as the rest of the announcements, however did we manage until just a few years ago when trains didn't even have PA systems. Did huge numbers get overcarried, step out on the wrong side, or whatever. Well no they didn't.

 

[A-driver]

All this concern about announcing every next station, as well as the rest of the announcements, however did we manage until just a few years ago when trains didn't even have PA systems. Did huge numbers get overcarried, step out on the wrong side, or whatever. Well no they didn't.

To be fair it used to be common for stations to announce their names when a train arrived. They generally can't do that now due to complaints from residents nearby. Also, generally trains with guards-past and present-will/would have announcements via PA.

And I agree that in the Hertford branch especially the stations are very dark with the signs not illuminated.

Infact a number of GN platforms recently failed lighting tests which explain why it can be so hard to see which station you are at in the dark. It also means that at stations such as welwyn North, Welwyn garden, ashwell, letchworth, harringar, Hornsey, Hatfield, Barnet, Hadley wood etc drivers are now instructed to carry out degraded dispatch in the dark as they have admitted too many shadows in the mirrors created by poor lighting (funny how we have been saying that for years and were told that it was fine but when the dft told them the exact same thing suddenly they decided that it was a problem and took action!)

 

[ItchyRsole]

All this concern about announcing every next station, as well as the rest of the announcements, however did we manage until just a few years ago when trains didn't even have PA systems. Did huge numbers get overcarried, step out on the wrong side, or whatever. Well no they didn't.

Exactly.

Much a do about nothing! :roll:

 

[hassaanhc]

Exactly.

Much a do about nothing! :roll:

It is either too many announcements, or not enough. Never hear anyone say they're just right...

 

[Busaholic]

All this concern about announcing every next station, as well as the rest of the announcements, however did we manage until just a few years ago when trains didn't even have PA systems. Did huge numbers get overcarried, step out on the wrong side, or whatever. Well no they didn't.

On the South Eastern side pre-privatisation there would be a platform announcement at each station as to the exact stations served by the train, even at busy stations like London Bridge. Sometimes these would be pre-recorded, where the pattern hardly ever varied, or manually where it did. It then became your responsibility to realise your station had been arrived at (not always too easy at some stations unless you were sitting by the window) and get out the right side.

 

[Aictos]

Oops, sorry! Yes, I just realised 2018 is when the new trains will come. It's 2016 for some of the 377s to come over isn't it?

Yup, think 377s on the Kings Lynn services although I rather stick 365s there and poach 377s for Peterboroughs

 

[Taunton]

It is either too many announcements, or not enough. Never hear anyone say they're just right

I think few object to succinct announcements, like on some US systems, where on departure you get "Next stop, Main Street". What becomes annoying and then exasperating is getting every couple of minutes "Ladies and Gentlemen, may I have your attention please. The next station that the train will be stopping at will be Main Street. Please look around and ensure you have all your belongings with you. Please mind the gap between the train and the platform. Please have your ticket ready for inspection at the barrier.........".

 

[jon0844]

All this concern about announcing every next station, as well as the rest of the announcements, however did we manage until just a few years ago when trains didn't even have PA systems. Did huge numbers get overcarried, step out on the wrong side, or whatever. Well no they didn't.

Who said it was huge numbers? But I hope you're not suggesting it never happened. And what is the 'whatever' bit? You're now taking a simple lack of information about the current stop and trying to expand it to wrong door openings and goodness knows what else!

We didn't care much about making buildings accessible in the past either, and people survived, but now we accept that we need to improve things. Modern buildings, trains, even private homes, are all built to more modern standards and take into account accessibility issues (including audio/visual announcements and information).

I think few object to succinct announcements, like on some US systems, where on departure you get "Next stop, Main Street". What becomes annoying and then exasperating is getting every couple of minutes "Ladies and Gentlemen, may I have your attention please. The next station that the train will be stopping at will be Main Street. Please look around and ensure you have all your belongings with you. Please mind the gap between the train and the platform. Please have your ticket ready for inspection at the barrier.........".

I've been on a train in Sweden where the driver just said the station name. Not even 'next stop' before or after.

I'd argue that it probably needs an attention tone before, so you know to listen and not miss it, but that would surely be perfectly fine.

'<tone> New Southgate.'

Job done.

 

[21C101]

Here we go again. 1632 from St P. Just got to West Hamp at 1648. Line shut at Mill Hill with open train times showing long queues in all directions.

Just pulled up at red country side of WH with meridian also at red on fast.

EDIT. Person hit by train between mill hill and Radlett. Slow lines now open. Emergency services attending at Radlett.

Several EMT trains marooned on down fast.

 

[asylumxl]

Here we go again. 1632 from St P. Just got to West Hamp at 1648. Line shut at Mill Hill with open train times showing long queues in all directions.

Just pulled up at red country side of WH with meridian also at red on fast.

EDIT. Person hit by train between mill hill and Radlett. Slow lines now open. Emergency services attending at Radlett.

Several EMT trains marooned on down fast.

According to staff it wasn't a person hit, it was a trespass incident. I went through the area a few minutes ago on the fast line. So it must have been a quick clean up if it was?

 

[SPADTrap]

According to staff it wasn't a person hit, it was a trespass incident. I went through the area a few minutes ago on the fast line. So it must have been a quick clean up if it was?

Indeed was a trespass incident.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Indeed was a trespass incident.

It was a person trespassing whilst being persued by Her Majesty's constables ....service backed up all over.

Rotten day - loads of short formations this am causing endemic overcrowding (as you do when you get 3 x 4 cars in a row + cancellations)

Tomorrow is another day ....

 

[21C101]

It was a person trespassing whilst being persued by Her Majesty's constables ....service backed up all over.

Rotten day - loads of short formations this am causing endemic overcrowding (as you do when you get 3 x 4 cars in a row + cancellations)

Tomorrow is another day ....

Ah Good - our driver was misinformed.

 

[The Box Photter]

But as usual, I was on the 16.38 Blackfriars to Bedford which was kept on the down slow all the way from St Pancras and whilst we were crawling along on single amber/red all the way to Luton (presumably following a Luton stopper), the three following Thameslink trains swept past on the down fast at close to full line speed.

As Mario Balotelli enunciated so well using the power of a tee-shirt, "Why always me?"

Clearly there were concerns about a trespasser on the line and we passed an ambulance on the M1 hard shoulder near Mill Hill, but if trains were allowed to travel at line speed on the fast lines, why were we subject to the purgatory of a 10-15 mph crawl all the way to St Albans and little more than 20 mph from there up to Luton. The train was 2W48 and I finally arrived at Flitwick exactly 40 mins late.

Have Thameslink implanted me with a tracking device so they can take twisted pleasure in spoiling my day? The train I was hoping to catch this morning was cancelled too(07.04 Flitwick to Brighton) because of a train fault.

 

[SPADTrap]

But as usual, I was on the 16.38 Blackfriars to Bedford which was kept on the down slow all the way from St Pancras and whilst we were crawling along on single amber/red all the way to Luton (presumably following a Luton stopper), the three following Thameslink trains swept past on the down fast at close to full line speed.

As Mario Balotelli enunciated so well using the power of a tee-shirt, "Why always me?"

Clearly there were concerns about a trespasser on the line and we passed an ambulance on the M1 hard shoulder near Mill Hill, but if trains were allowed to travel at line speed on the fast lines, why were we subject to the purgatory of a 10-15 mph crawl all the way to St Albans and little more than 20 mph from there up to Luton. The train was 2W48 and I finally arrived at Flitwick exactly 40 mins late.

Have Thameslink implanted me with a tracking device so they can take twisted pleasure in spoiling my day? The train I was hoping to catch this morning was cancelled too(07.04 Flitwick to Brighton) because of a train fault.

Single yellow

Back in my box.

 

[The Box Photter]

Single yellow

Back in my box.

I'm sorry, I don't understand the meaning of your post.

Clearly its a railway joke, a bit like customer service on Thameslink.

 

[SPADTrap]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the meaning of your post.

Clearly its a railway joke, a bit like customer service on Thameslink.

Railway joke on a railway forum? Get out!

I was correcting your use of "Amber" but in a friendly way!

We both have terrible senses of humour evidently!

 

[The Box Photter]

Railway joke on a railway forum? Get out!

I was correcting your use of "Amber" but in a friendly way!

We both have terrible senses of humour evidently!

Yep, just realised. Yellow on the railway, amber on the road.

Cheers. Bad journey home, delayed train, but not delayed enough to avoid parents' evening at school. Gah!

 

[SPADTrap]

Yep, just realised. Yellow on the railway, amber on the road.

Cheers. Bad journey home, delayed train, but not delayed enough to avoid parents' evening at school. Gah!

Oooft say no more!

Didn't mean to sound picky

 

[Bald Rick]

Have Thameslink implanted me with a tracking device so they can take twisted pleasure in spoiling my day?

Yes. You are now at home. #weknowwhereyouare

 

[Abpj17]

And now we have snow...it was settling quite a bit in Luton around 11pm so good luck for the morning service

(oh, though we had a lovely driver on this morning's service - 8.08 from Leagrave going south - almost too chatty, but very good at keeping us up to date about signal delays as we approached the core)

 

[21C101]

On 6.34 comfy chair special ex Bedford to Beckenham. Just been switched from fast to slow at Harpenden.

Box photter. I try and avoid the 4.38. Is or was 4 cars and often overtaken by the 16.52.

Luckily my wife was doing middle school openday last night. She didn't find any Thameslink bugging devices there though.

 

[AM9]

.... Box photter. I try and avoid the 4.38. Is or was 4 cars and often overtaken by the 16.52.

Wow that must be a slow run, - so much that a train leaving over 12 hours later passes it!

 

[RJ]

Tomorrow is another day ....

Things are kicking off again in the height of the AM peak. Broken down 319 in the core, disruption expected until 10:00 according to NRE.

 

[Saint66]

319's been removed, so hopefully things improve.