the implications of filming something from a passengers prospective.

[gray1404]

Mods' note: split from Fares at a ticket office vs Red Spotted Hanky (RSH)

Looks like I'll be paying them a visit next time I am in Manchester armed with hidden camera.

To add some context, due to the problems I have had getting Advance tickets at ticket office, been told incorrect ticketing information, having guards on trains saying I cannot break my journey when I can and being denied access to Gatwick Express service because I do not hold a Any Permitted ticket, I have decided that I am going to start filming interactions I have with rail staff. This is for the purposes of gathering evidence and proof of what actually happened and to provide evidence of the industry failings which do an injustice to the customer.

With the daily breach of consumer law, people being mis-sold more expensive tickets, passengers being told by guards they cannot break their journey and ticket offices failing to sell the tickets that are requested of them, customers being left stranded when a TOC is in a position to help them and passengers being reported, sometimes by third party contractors, when they have valid tickets.....I cannot see any alternative but to film things.

 

[AlterEgo]

Looks like I'll be paying them a visit next time I am in Manchester armed with hidden camera.

Why would you need to film it?

 

[gray1404]

Gathering real evidence of unacceptable service that cannot be disputed, rather then he said she said accounts. I've started recording most of my interactions on the railways now when it comes to tickets, ticket checks etc.....

 

[AlterEgo]

Gathering real evidence of unacceptable service that cannot be disputed, rather then he said she said accounts. I've started recording most of my interactions on the railways now when it comes to tickets, ticket checks etc.....

It's probably not a good idea to discreetly record staff (though it is legal). It sends entirely the wrong impression and just winds people up.

 

[Hadders]

Looks like I'll be paying them a visit next time I am in Manchester armed with hidden camera.

I don't think it's acceptable to film it as part of a mystery shopping exercise. By all means take copious notes but I just think filming it covertly is wrong.

 

[gray1404]

It's probably not a good idea to discreetly record staff (though it is legal). It sends entirely the wrong impression and just winds people up.

Its not amount filming to create a problem. Its about having the evidence required to correct service failings or if for the event that something does no wrong. By the way I don't think its right that the railway films me on their stations and trains. However, they do. It is legal and nothing I can do about it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Its not amount filming to create a problem. Its about having the evidence required to correct service failings. By the way I don't think its right that the railway films me on their stations and trains. However, they do. It is legal and nothing I can do about it.

I'm sure it's not about that, but sneakily filming members of staff isn't a good thing to do. It escalates any problems by an order of magnitude should you get found out. It is only a ticket after all.

Filming in public is legal, but just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.

 

[gray1404]

In my experience the booking office staff at Deansgate G-MEX don't care enough/are not trained in (varying by staff member) issuing anything other than a walk up single or return from there to somewhere, or maybe on a good day one of the GM Ranger/Wayfarer tickets.

And here lies the problem.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think it's acceptable to film it as part of a mystery shopping exercise. By all means take copious notes but I just think filming it covertly is wrong.

Your entitled to your personal opinion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm sure it's not about that, but sneakily filming members of staff isn't a good thing to do. It escalates any problems by an order of magnitude should you get found out. It is only a ticket after all.

Filming in public is legal, but just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.

It provides evidence as to what was said and what wasn't. It also makes it impossible for people who have been giving out information, be that at the ticket office, gateline or on the train to deny it afterwards. It also protects the passenger in the event they get reported for something that didn't happen. I think we could have a separate thread on the forum to discuss the implications of filming something from a passengers prospective.

 

[Hadders]

By the way I don't think its right that the railway films me on their stations and trains. However, they do. It is legal and nothing I can do about it.

The railway doesn't film you covertly. They are required to comply with the Data Protection Act which includes signage telling you who to contact in the event of a query or complaint.

Your covert recording of a transactions wouldn't have any of the above.

 

[gray1404]

The railway doesn't film you covertly. They are required to comply with the Data Protection Act which includes signage telling you who to contact in the event of a query or complaint.

Your covert recording of a transactions wouldn't have any of the above.

I am not subject to the data protection act and I would argue that it is in the public interest. Also, to protect myself as stated above.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I wouldn't like to be filmed without my knowledge and if I found someone to be filming me without my knowledge, I'd politely ask them to stop as they had not sought my express permission to do so.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . I don't think its right that the railway films me on their stations and trains. However, they do. It is legal and nothing I can do about it.

. . . and presumably you don't "think its right that" you film people who enter your property, and that if they don't like it, that there's "nothing they can do about it" (other than leave, of course, which is what you can do if you hold the railways in such suspicion and contempt. If I felt as hard-done-by as you, then I'd keep well away, rather than use a camera for no obvious benefit, and do something more productive with my life.)

 

[gray1404]

. . . and presumably you don't "think its right that" you film people who enter your property, and that if they don't like it, that there's "nothing they can do about it" (other than leave, of course, which is what you can do if you hold the railways in such suspicion and contempt. If I felt as hard-done-by as you, then I'd keep well away, rather than use a camera for no obvious benefit, and do something more productive with my life.)

Have a read at my opening post Dave. That will give you some context. I personally enjoy fighting for consumer rights and gathering proof of mishappenings is vital in doing that

 

[AlterEgo]

Such naivety.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Have a read at my opening post Dave. That will give . . . .

Oh, I did!

I personally enjoy fighting for consumer rights and gathering proof of mishappenings is vital in doing that

I make a distinction between people who use their spare time to constructively try to make the world a better place, however small, unsuccessful and parochial that effort might ultimately be, and those who use it to find fault, blame and criticism of others.

I agree that I hadn't made that distinction clear when giving the benefit of my own approach to these circumstances which are giving you so much enjoyment.
I'm sorry.

 

[gray1404]

Oh, I did!

I make a distinction between people who use their spare time to constructively try to make the world a better place, however small, unsuccessful and parochial that effort might ultimately be, and those who use it to find fault, blame and criticism of others.

I agree that I hadn't made that distinction clear when giving the benefit of my own approach to these circumstances which are giving you so much enjoyment.
I'm sorry.

Well, regardless of what you think, I go with the former. Aside from that I really do not see where your going.

 

[Llanigraham]

I am not subject to the data protection act and I would argue that it is in the public interest. Also, to protect myself as stated above.

Are you sure about that?

I also suggest you also need to check on the legalities of covertly filming on private property, especially in relation to various Railway Laws.

You could be heading for a lot more trouble for yourself!

 

[gray1404]

A lot of you here are really missing the point totally. Very quick to blame me or find fault. I only film if I am requesting a complicated ticket, having a ticket check on something that not straight forward or going on a non Any permitted ticket on Gatwick Express and trying to get though a gateline. Or I may start filming if something goes wrong. If nothing bad happens it gets deleted. So before you start finding fault in me for protecting myself, have a look on You Tube at the other people who start filming when they are in a difficult situation.

 

[Merseysider]

I think there's a fine line when filming a potentially confrontational situation between it being either a useful aid later on, and it simply escalating the matter. However commendable your motives may be, from your posts here it sounds like you have a bit of a vendetta; in my opinion using a hidden camera is a bit overkill and may get you labelled as a trouble maker.

 

[bnm]

I don't think it's acceptable to film it as part of a mystery shopping exercise. By all means take copious notes but I just think filming it covertly is wrong.

I do mystery shopping for additional income. I have been provided with discreet video and audio recording devices.

 

[island]

The railway doesn't film you covertly. They are required to comply with the Data Protection Act which includes signage telling you who to contact in the event of a query or complaint.

Your covert recording of a transactions wouldn't have any of the above.

Are you sure about that?

I also suggest you also need to check on the legalities of covertly filming on private property, especially in relation to various Railway Laws.

You could be heading for a lot more trouble for yourself!

Was wondering when the data protection brigade would spring up.

The Data Protection Act has a carve-out data processed for personal, social, or domestic purposes and gray1404 is entirely correct to say it does not apply in this scenario.

 

[Clip]

I'm astonished that someone has so many problems with the railway and I'm sure we all travel just as much as the op yet without any issues.

 

[talldave]

Was wondering when the data protection brigade would spring up.

The Data Protection Act has a carve-out data processed for personal, social, or domestic purposes and gray1404 is entirely correct to say it does not apply in this scenario.

Don't worry, the health and safety brigade will be along shortly....

More seriously though, I would have thought an audio only recording would be sufficient to capture the conversation. Video adds nothing in terms of a record of the information given.

 

[Flamingo]

I think there's a fine line when filming a potentially confrontational situation between it being either a useful aid later on, and it simply escalating the matter. However commendable your motives may be, from your posts here it sounds like you have a bit of a vendetta; in my opinion using a hidden camera is a bit overkill and may get you labelled as a trouble maker.

I think that point is a spot in the rear-view mirror...

 

[Deepgreen]

Mods' note: split from Fares at a ticket office vs Red Spotted Hanky (RSH)

Looks like I'll be paying them a visit next time I am in Manchester armed with hidden camera.

To add some context, due to the problems I have had getting Advance tickets at ticket office, been told incorrect ticketing information, having guards on trains saying I cannot break my journey when I can and being denied access to Gatwick Express service because I do not hold a Any Permitted ticket, I have decided that I am going to start filming interactions I have with rail staff. This is for the purposes of gathering evidence and proof of what actually happened and to provide evidence of the industry failings which do an injustice to the customer.

With the daily breach of consumer law, people being mis-sold more expensive tickets, passengers being told by guards they cannot break their journey and ticket offices failing to sell the tickets that are requested of them, customers being left stranded when a TOC is in a position to help them and passengers being reported, sometimes by third party contractors, when they have valid tickets.....I cannot see any alternative but to film things.

"...from a passenger's perspective"?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Was wondering when the data protection brigade would spring up.

The Data Protection Act has a carve-out data processed for personal, social, or domestic purposes and gray1404 is entirely correct to say it does not apply in this scenario.

Forgive me for interjecting here, and feel free to correct as appropriate, but the op stated they would seek out the office (armed with a hidden camera) on their next visit to Manchester, that doesn't sound to me like it's personal, social or domestic.

 

[AlterEgo]

Forgive me for interjecting here, and feel free to correct as appropriate, but the op stated they would seek out the office (armed with a hidden camera) on their next visit to Manchester, that doesn't sound to me like it's personal, social or domestic.

It's personal use.

Unless you're suggesting he should register as a Data Controller to film at a railway station?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Playing devil's advocate, how about a couple of potential Byelaw offences?

6(8) is a good opener: "No person shall molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of any person on the railway"

2(1) is another possibility: "Except with written permission from an Operator or an authorised person, no person shall bring with him or allow to remain on the railway any item which, in the opinion of an authorised person, may threaten, annoy, soil or damage any person or any property"

Not that I'm saying a prosecution for either of these would follow (or succeed), it's more likely that you would be asked to leave the station if discovered, and potentially reported to the anti-terrorism hotline at some locations given recent events.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It's personal use.

Unless you're suggesting he should register as a Data Controller to film at a railway station?

Merely saying that I don't understand it being personal use if the person using the camera deliberately goes out of their way to film someone else for the sole purpose of proving that the filmed person has, or has not, done their job correctly.

 

[Merseysider]

I think that point is a spot in the rear-view mirror...

You got me, Sheriff

Even if it is personal use, persistent and unwarranted filming of railway employees every time one tries to buy a ticket, or walk through a barrier, would surely be harassment...