The Horror of Pacers

[Sprinter107]

The 150/1 units had exactly the same seat frames as the Bedford to St.Pancras 317 sets. The headrests used to keep falling off em. Youd find em in the luggage racks.

 

[Fisherman80]

It would be interesting to know if there was some kind of thread regarding Pacer mileage in a single day! In the the mid 90s I think I did around 280 miles in one day! I would get a 156/144 combo between Leeds and Carlisle,then a 142 between Carlisle and Barrow,a 156 between Barrow and Lancaster,then a Crosscountry class 86 with a Mk2 rake between Lancaster and Carlisle,and finally a 144 between Carlisle and Leeds!
There would be no way I would be able to repeat the same journey now as back then all Pacers had the bench seats!

 

[LancasterRed]

Having ridden on a 142 from Lancaster to Preston at full pelt down the WCML I can safely say I no longer fear death. I think they're all but gone on that stretch now, which is good as it's now my daily commute.

144s are really comfortable with the high back seats. 142s and 143s were specially constructed in Hell though. That in mind, I'd have loved to have had the chance to speed under Liverpool on one.

 

[ed1971]

Having ridden on a 142 from Lancaster to Preston at full pelt down the WCML I can safely say I no longer fear death. I think they're all but gone on that stretch now, which is good as it's now my daily commute.

144s are really comfortable with the high back seats. 142s and 143s were specially constructed in Hell though. That in mind, I'd have loved to have had the chance to speed under Liverpool on one.

My own view on this is that the Richmond seats fitted to the Class 144s are too bulky and too tall blocking your view and creating quite a claustrophobic interior. I don't think they suit any rolling stock for that matter, they are terrible contraptions; on a 153 fitted with these seats, there is no legroom. I am 6ft1. I prefer the original bus bench seats.
At the time they fitted them to the 144s in the 1990s, I knew a driver and he too said that they were out of place in a 144.

 

[Andyh82]

The Richmond seats were fitted in the early 00s

 

[py_megapixel]

I have to say, I would probably choose one of the better 142s over a 15x after SercoAbellio Northern's refurbishment. I personally think that the striped seat covers are awful, and the very thick moquette caught lots of dust and dirt. But I think the refurbishment under Arriva's Northern has made them slightly preferable, at least until the walls become stained and discoloured again.

 

[Sprinter107]

Thise Richmond seats are awful. There seems very little room between the edge of the seat and the table support on the 156s fitted with them. I've given my knee a good crack more than once.

 

[ed1971]

The Richmond seats were fitted in the early 00s

I take your word for it as I didn't venture much into West Yorkshire after the Class 141s were withdrawn. Wasn't the Northern spirit Class 142 refurbs done in the late 1990s?

 

[philjo]

Northern treated us to a 2 coach 144 on the 1302 Scarborough to Sheffield service yesterday. I was travelling Scarborough to Doncaster. It got cosy after Bridlington as the previous service had been cancelled due to earlier signalling problems so there was a large crowd waiting at Bridlington. Some long sections of jointed track between Scarborough and Bridlington!

 

[childwallblues]

Being a Southerner ie being local to GTR and their wonderful class 700s. I have never had the "pleasure" of travelling on a Pacer.
However this all changed last week. I had the need to get from Bedford to Worksop. So Leicester, Sheffield then the final leg Sheffield To Worksop on a PACER. Ye Gods no wonder they are talked about on here in such a way. I have never experienced such an awful train journey.

I have sympathy for all you members who have to suffer the Pacer on a regular basis

Over the top statement. I have travelled on all 142 143 and 144. they get you from A to B and in my opinion have a better seat layout than Class 150s

 

[py_megapixel]

Over the top statement. I have travelled on all 142 143 and 144. they get you from A to B and in my opinion have a better seat layout than Class 150s

That's not saying much though! The Class 150 seat layout is far from good.

 

[YorksDMU]

Northern treated us to a 2 coach 144 on the 1302 Scarborough to Sheffield service yesterday. I was travelling Scarborough to Doncaster. It got cosy after Bridlington as the previous service had been cancelled due to earlier signalling problems so there was a large crowd waiting at Bridlington. Some long sections of jointed track between Scarborough and Bridlington!

Regarding the jointed track sections, they are: Seamer West to South Junctions, then Filey to Hunmanby, for one mile to Bempton, Bridlington to Carnaby, from a mile after Carnaby for a mile, and Watton to Kilnwick LC’s, and that’s it. But it’s enough in a Pacer! Especially full and standing.
I know all this since it’s my local line. Thankfully during the week it’s mostly 15x’s or 170’s.

 

[Bessie]

I can't ever remember being on a Pacer. I live in Berkshire - is the nearest place for me to enjoy/endure one going to be in Exeter riding the branch lines? If so when are GWR retiring their fleet?

 

[Cardiff123]

I can't ever remember being on a Pacer. I live in Berkshire - is the nearest place for me to enjoy/endure one going to be in Exeter riding the branch lines? If so when are GWR retiring their fleet?

Probably quicker to get to Cardiff, Pacers depart every 5-10 minutes from Cardiff Central on Valleys services

 

[PHILIPE]

I can't ever remember being on a Pacer. I live in Berkshire - is the nearest place for me to enjoy/endure one going to be in Exeter riding the branch lines? If so when are GWR retiring their fleet?

By the end of the year at the moment. No definite dates yet

 

[Jozhua]

Just seen a "144 Evolution" parked in Sheffield...

Seems to be a pacer with information screens, fresh paint and ironing boards.

Whoever thought it a good idea to fit ironing boards on a Pacer should probably be taken out the back and shot as much as your average passenger's back would be after riding on it!

 

[Wombat]

I am only just 6ft tall but on the 142s with the tall seats on most of the seats I have to sit sideways as I can't get my legs in.

Yes, when I had to use a Pacer I ran into exactly this problem. I'm 6'2" and was physically unable to fit into the space provided. I was "fortunate" enough to have an empty seat next to me so that I could sit diagonally for the 45 minutes or so of my journey. I realise that there are pressures to cram in as many seats as possible, but I would dearly love to know who decided that those seats were remotely acceptable.

 

[ed1971]

Yes, when I had to use a Pacer I ran into exactly this problem. I'm 6'2" and was physically unable to fit into the space provided. I was "fortunate" enough to have an empty seat next to me so that I could sit diagonally for the 45 minutes or so of my journey. I realise that there are pressures to cram in as many seats as possible, but I would dearly love to know who decided that those seats were remotely acceptable.

At 6'1" I had the same problem with a 153 a few weeks ago that had Richmond seats.

 

[Jozhua]

At 6'1" I had the same problem with a 153 a few weeks ago that had Richmond seats.

Same! I have to spread over two seats. 153's get even my 5 foot 6 friends complaining about space...

Many of Northern's 150's are even worse for this, with the "2" + "3" which is so crammed in that me and my flatmate were almost unable to physically fit in. It's worse for the 6 foot women, because generally their legs are longer in comparison to their torsos, so the lack of legroom is even more apparent. The seats also seem to be shaped as so they protrude more to the sides, into the exact area a person would normally rest their knees, making the situation worse.

Why not give people an appropriate amount of room in a 2+2 configuration with adequate legroom you can actually fill, instead of a 2+3 where people stand while only 70% of the seats are occupied because you can't actually fit 5 normal sized people across the carriage. I'd say 156's are the benchmark for "adequate", while I would argue that the 158's and 222's are the benchmark for "ideal" in regards to the provision of proper space. The only time I can forgive 2+3 is on 319's and 150/2's, where the seats face each other, meaning that people can spread out a reasonable amount in front of them and the back of the sets are high enough.

 

[ed1971]

Same! I have to spread over two seats. 153's get even my 5 foot 6 friends complaining about space...

Many of Northern's 150's are even worse for this, with the "2" + "3" which is so crammed in that me and my flatmate were almost unable to physically fit in. It's worse for the 6 foot women, because generally their legs are longer in comparison to their torsos, so the lack of legroom is even more apparent. The seats also seem to be shaped as so they protrude more to the sides, into the exact area a person would normally rest their knees, making the situation worse.

Why not give people an appropriate amount of room in a 2+2 configuration with adequate legroom you can actually fill, instead of a 2+3 where people stand while only 70% of the seats are occupied because you can't actually fit 5 normal sized people across the carriage. I'd say 156's are the benchmark for "adequate", while I would argue that the 158's and 222's are the benchmark for "ideal" in regards to the provision of proper space. The only time I can forgive 2+3 is on 319's and 150/2's, where the seats face each other, meaning that people can spread out a reasonable amount in front of them and the back of the sets are high enough.

The problem is not just confined to trains either; on the older version of the ADL Enviro 400 bus there is no space to tuck my legs in. They seem to have addressed the problem however on the new version that Stagecoach have.

Modern day designers could well do with taking a leaf out of the book of the designers of the original London Routemaster bus. Attention was paid to every small detail.

 

[Mikey C]

The problem is not just confined to trains either; on the older version of the ADL Enviro 400 bus there is no space to tuck my legs in. They seem to have addressed the problem however on the new version that Stagecoach have.

Modern day designers could well do with taking a leaf out of the book of the designers of the original London Routemaster bus. Attention was paid to every small detail.

The Routemaster has worse legroom than most modern buses actually, certainly upstairs.

 

[mushroomchow]

I'm going to miss the aesthetic of taking a 142 into the Hope Valley for a walk in the snow. As undeniably crappy as it was, there's something rather charming about it in certain situations, so long as it's an occasional thing and not your daily experience.

Picture the scene. You can barely see out the steamy, frost-covered windows, while your soaked gloves dry on the filthy heaters, collecting a fine layer of dirty dust as they do so. You're looking at the splinter-packed wooden ladder hanging on the vestibule and wondering what if any use it will be if the nodding donkey nods just a little too violently and plummets off the embankment west of Grindleford. The smell is one of bus seats - that weird, musty throwback of a smell with a slight hint of diesel which you remember from your school days only, instead of screaming kids navigating the minefield of puberty, the sound is that of old ladies putting the world to right very loudly in order to be heard over the screeching wheels inside Totley Tunnel.

As you alight at Bamford, you have to remind yourself - "this is 2016". Despite this, on your walk up to the pub for a fry-up before you tackle Win Hill in a blizzard you half expect to come across a picket line of striking miners or a kid jamming to Depeche Mode on his walkman, such is the time capsule you've just used to get here.

 

[Killingworth]

I'm going to miss the aesthetic of taking a 142 into the Hope Valley for a walk in the snow. As undeniably crappy as it was, there's something rather charming about it in certain situations, so long as it's an occasional thing and not your daily experience.

Picture the scene. You can barely see out the steamy, frost-covered windows, while your soaked gloves dry on the filthy heaters, collecting a fine layer of dirty dust as they do so. You're looking at the splinter-packed wooden ladder hanging on the vestibule and wondering what if any use it will be if the nodding donkey nods just a little too violently and plummets off the embankment west of Grindleford. The smell is one of bus seats - that weird, musty throwback of a smell with a slight hint of diesel which you remember from your school days only, instead of screaming kids navigating the minefield of puberty, the sound is that of old ladies putting the world to right very loudly in order to be heard over the screeching wheels inside Totley Tunnel.

As you alight at Bamford, you have to remind yourself - "this is 2016". Despite this, on your walk up to the pub for a fry-up before you tackle Win Hill in a blizzard you half expect to come across a picket line of striking miners or a kid jamming to Depeche Mode on his walkman, such is the time capsule you've just used to get here.

So true, we'll miss the camaradie of being packed closely together in a confined space at weekends, rucksacks and bikes to clamber over - or rattling along in the solitude of a train almost to oneself late in an evening.

 

[Journeyman]

Why did the 150s have such a lousy seating layout? The 455s may have originally had those horrible low back seats, but at least all the seats were facing and the legroom was tolerable

Seating all in bays is a bit rubbish if you're travelling alone and don't want to stare at a stranger. I prefer airline seats for privacy myself, so for me an ideal layout is a mixture of both.

 

[ed1971]

The Routemaster has worse legroom than most modern buses actually, certainly upstairs.

I have never actually been upstairs on a Routemaster, but I travelled on them a lot when Blackpool Transport operated a number in the late 1980s/early 1990s. I never had a problem with legroom on them.

 

[Mikey C]

I have never actually been upstairs on a Routemaster, but I travelled on them a lot when Blackpool Transport operated a number in the late 1980s/early 1990s. I never had a problem with legroom on them.

The modern double deckers I regularly use in London definitely have more legroom than the RM though, other than the new RM (aka Borismaster!)

 

[Captain Beaky]

They served a purpose. Nothing was fun on the railways back in the early ‘80’s.

Kids of today....eeeh, you don’t know you’re born

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I went on a couple of pacers in recent days. One was from Thornaby to Saltburn. Some members of my group were very exited as it had old bus 2 & 3 seats across. One chapnhad never been on one before. The other trip we did was from Bishop Auckland to Darlington with more modern seats.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

They served a purpose. Nothing was fun on the railways back in the early ‘80’s.

Kids of today....eeeh, you don’t know you’re born

I suspect that in a few decades time people will look back at the Pacers with some affection.

I have childhood memories of the last days of steam and remember days out in Cardiff using the 'Saint Fagans Pullman', the old Barry Railway route from Pontypridd to Cardiff.

I'm sure that, in reality, the single carriage puffer was dirty, decrepid and uncomfortable. Just like a Pacer really. I still smile when I think about it though!

Just because something was crap, it doesn't mean you can't be nostalgic about it.

 

[LMS 4F]

I saw whilst waiting at a level Xings the 1202 Castleford to Leeds which had come from Sheffield, and it was a blue 150/1. The first time I have seen this be anything other a Pacer. Whether it is an improvement is of course debatable.