The Greenfield - Marsden Chasm

[Puffing Devil]

This is the border between TFGM and West Yorkshire.

Currently a single for the 7 mile trip is £7.10 and a CDR £6.00 and this hump seems to be included in many tickets crossing the boundary.

Other than walking, is there any easy way to reduce this pricing speedbump when venturing into Yorkshire from Lancs? Even though some may see this as a fair entrance tax

Happy to have PMs of anything creative that you don't want to share.

 

[185143]

I know something that makes Manchester-Huddersfield a bit cheaper (though not much-there's another journey that ticket is better for), but can't immediately think of anything just for the 'tunnel tax'...

It doesn't go to Marsden station admittedly, but First's 184 bus service is one of my favourites, and cheap too at £4.50 for an adult (Manchester) daysaver which is valid for the full route to Huddersfield, as well as every other First bus in Greater Manchester (plus routes to Burnley and Halifax from Rochdale and Manchester-Warrington).

I'll have a think of something rail wise, but TPE are normally quite good at removing loopholes once they are aware of it-so don't expect anything to stick about.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, it is a very expensive tunnel!

Happy to have PMs of anything creative that you don't want to share.

There is a good value fare that is valid for cross-border travel, which I have sent the details of, via PM.

If it was posted publicly, certain pricing managers would probably introduce a more expensive "Any Permitted" fare and re-route the current priced fare to prevent cross-border travel.

 

[roversfan2001]

There is an (not entirely 'legal', but you could make a case for it) option that I have PM'd you about.

 

[Polarbear]

I know something that makes Manchester-Huddersfield a bit cheaper (though not much-there's another journey that ticket is better for), but can't immediately think of anything just for the 'tunnel tax'...

It doesn't go to Marsden station admittedly, but First's 184 bus service is one of my favourites, and cheap too at £4.50 for an adult (Manchester) daysaver which is valid for the full route to Huddersfield, as well as every other First bus in Greater Manchester (plus routes to Burnley and Halifax from Rochdale and Manchester-Warrington).

I'll have a think of something rail wise, but TPE are normally quite good at removing loopholes once they are aware of it-so don't expect anything to stick about.

Also available on the 184 bus service is First's West Yorkshire day ticket, which allows unlimited travel from Manchester & Oldham, across the Pennines, and all of their services in the West Yorkshire area.

Slow, it may be, but it's cheap and arguably more scenic than the rail trip!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting there are two longish tunnels under the Pennines, would the rail fare from Littleborough to Walsden be cheaper per mile than that of Greenfield to Marsden?

Both routes start and finish in two different authority areas.

 

[yorkie]

Noting there are two longish tunnels under the Pennines, would the rail fare from Littleborough to Marsden be cheaper per mile than that of Greenfield to Marsden?

You mean Littlebrough to Walsden*/Todmorden?

No need to guess; you can look this up at www.brfares.com

And yes, that tunnel is well known for being cheaper to negotiate!

(* splitting at Walsden is marginally cheaper but can reduce the number of trains you can catch, depending on the combination of tickets held)

 

[185]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, condition 14.2 of the NCOTs has somewhat eased the situation where those splitting tickets are no longer confined to using the stopper.

So, eg a GM Ranger and return say Hudds-Greenfield would be valid on a non-stop TPE service. Similarly a WY Rover plus a Manc-Marsden ticket, a Manchester Newton Le W plus a Merseyside Saveaway... all now valid combinations on TPE?

14. Using a combination of Tickets
14.2 If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

Edit:
Further (Mis?)-interpretation of this... could a ticket, valid Manchester-NLW CDR plus a Saveaway be valid route Manchester-Warrington-Liverpool? With that paragraph, there is the suggestion by the way that is worded, that route would also be valid, though I doubt it.

 

[Merseysider]

No, because as soon as the train from Liverpool to Manchester passes Hough Green, you'd be covered by neither the Saveaway nor the NLW-MAN ticket, and vice versa, although this combination would be valid on the more northerly line via Chat Moss. At least, that's my interpretation.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

No, because as soon as the train from Liverpool to Manchester passes Hough Green, you'd be covered by neither the Saveaway nor the NLW-MAN ticket, and vice versa, although this combination would be valid on the more northerly line via Chat Moss. At least, that's my interpretation.

I don't think the MAN-NLW (and vice-versa) ticket has any validity on the southern route, but would indeed be valid via Northern or TPE services on the Chat Moss route (via Newton-le-Willows).

 

[Puffing Devil]

Thanks for all the suggestions and the PMs with very helpful advice.

The issue with using a rover, or similar ticket, still seems to be the chasm..... Rovers end at either Greenfield or Marsden, leaving the gap in the middle. Buying a regular ticket to cover the gap is not cheap, as the fares are inflated to cover this.

 

[185]

I agree, that would be my interpretation of the rule. However a debate arose on this a few months back which resulted in bits of PPE being thrown around:

say:

Liverpool - (rte Wrton Cen) - Manchester

14.2... rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid (NLW) and the first station that the other Ticket (NLW) is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

To the N'th degree, the text does not specifically state a train must physically be routed via that way. But in fairness, it won't be relevant anyway soon, as most (useful) services are being routed via the moss (nlw).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I agree, that would be my interpretation of the rule. However a debate arose on this a few months back which resulted in bits of PPE being thrown around:

say:

Liverpool - (rte Wrton Cen) - Manchester

14.2... rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid (NLW) and the first station that the other Ticket (NLW) is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

To the N'th degree, the text does not specifically state a train must physically be routed via that way. But in fairness, it won't be relevant anyway soon, as most (useful) services are being routed via the moss (nlw).

Whilst it does not need to call, Condition 13 states that tickets are only valid by certain routes and nothing in Condition 14 says that doesn't apply. Manchester to Newton-le-Willows is not valid via Warrington Central, but even if it were, it would still not cover the gap from Warrington Central to Merseyside.