The Great Britain XV- 15th April

[Train Maniac]

Hi Guys
Does anyone know yet when said tour is meant to be leaving Paddington in the morning? Hoping to see this, Great Western Envoy and the Bakers Dozen all in one day so having the times in advance to plan with would be fantastic

 

[AnthonyRail]

Realtime Trains | 1C52 0713 London Paddington to Par | 15/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1C52 0713 departure from London Paddington to Par on 15/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

07:13am I think if this is the path

 

[Train Maniac]

Realtime Trains | 1C52 0713 London Paddington to Par | 15/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1C52 0713 departure from London Paddington to Par on 15/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

07:13am I think if this is the path

Cheers

 

[AnthonyRail]

Nope that not the path as it goes to Plymouth and not Par.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It should have a 1Zxx code, being a charter. Maybe it hasn't been uploaded yet?

It looks like it's a "Q" path ( runs as required ) with two different variations loaded. It's possible the charter could use this path as far as Plymouth, though - in which case I'd expect the code to be changed once it's uploaded.

 

[MiNi]

Hi Guys
Does anyone know yet when said tour is meant to be leaving Paddington in the morning? Hoping to see this, Great Western Envoy and the Bakers Dozen all in one day so having the times in advance to plan with would be fantastic

No 1zxx path in yet for a Paddington -btm on the 15th

 

[Train Maniac]

It should have a 1Zxx code, being a charter. Maybe it hasn't been uploaded yet?

It looks like it's a "Q" path ( runs as required ) with two different variations loaded. It's possible the charter could use this path as far as Plymouth, though - in which case I'd expect the code to be changed once it's uploaded.


View attachment 132676

No. I didnt really expect it to be uploaded at this point to be honest. It was more to get an idea of what sort of time in the morning it may be, as the more interesting parts of the Bakers Dozen tour are in the east end happening around 9ish. Cheers for the pointers

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No 1zxx path in yet for a Paddington -btm on the 15th

It won't be a Paddington to Bristol path, though...

The tour website https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-great-britain-xv---april-2023 shows that it'll first run to Plymouth via the Berks and Hants:

Saturday 15th April

Steam hauled from London to Bristol

Your Great Britain XV tour leaves the London Paddington Terminus of the former Great Western Railway (GWR) and makes its way towards Reading, passing through the West London suburbs. Engineered by Brunel, the GWR main line crosses the Wharncliffe Viaduct and the impressive Maidenhead brick arch viaduct across the Thames. After Reading, you take the Berks & Hants line through Newbury, following the Kennet and Avon Canal over Savernake Summit and through the picturesque Vale of Pewsey, en route to Westbury.

The Great Britain travels through Somerset to Taunton before taking on the long climb up to Whiteball Summit and entering Devon. A long descent follows through the Culm Valley to Exeter, and a service break. Leaving Exeter, you follow the Exe estuary through the delightful village of Starcross before you glimpse the ocean at Dawlish. With wonderful views of the coast from the comfort of your carriage you follow the famous Dawlish sea wall through Dawlish and several tunnels to Teignmouth. Heading inland past Newton Abbot the Great Britain tackles the extremely steep climb up to Dainton Tunnel, followed by the equally arduous ascent of Rattery Bank beyond Totnes. Running along the southern edge of Dartmoor National Park, you descend sharply to Plymouth and a break for the afternoon. There’ll be time to visit the historic city of Plymouth, with its famous shopping centres, the iconic Hoe and the ancient Barbican.

After your locomotive has been turned and serviced, you return to Exeter steam hauled, climbing the 1 in 40 gradients of Hemerdon Bank from Plymouth, ascending Dainton Bank once more. After one more glimpse of the sea wall at Dawlish, you arrive at Exeter for a water stop. Climbing Whiteball bank once again you head for Taunton, continuing across the Somerset Levels through Bridgwater before arriving at Bristol Temple Meads. You transfer to a hotel in Bristol for the evening.

 

[Train Maniac]

It won't be a Paddington to Bristol path, though...

The tour website https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-great-britain-xv---april-2023 shows that it'll first run to Plymouth via the Berks and Hants:

Thats what i find odd about this tour. Even railwaytouring.net themselves dont seem to know a rough time of when the tour is supposed to leave Haha

 

[zwk500]

Realtime Trains | 1C52 0713 London Paddington to Par | 15/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1C52 0713 departure from London Paddington to Par on 15/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

07:13am I think if this is the path

Don't think so, that looks like the VSOE path (owned by DB), and a steam loco won't keep to 95mph Class 47/67 timings. It's also in for the wholoe 6 months of the timetable, rather than a 1 day schedule.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2023 ==

Thats what i find odd about this tour. Even railwaytouring.net themselves dont seem to know a rough time of when the tour is supposed to leave Haha

Some tour companies choose to promise less so that NR have wriggle room to find them a departure slot if their bid is somewhat optimistic.

 

[MiNi]

It won't be a Paddington to Bristol path, though...

The tour website https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-great-britain-xv---april-2023 shows that it'll first run to Plymouth via the Berks and Hants:

Steam hauled London -Bristol!!!!!
You can go down the Berk's & Hants then up to bath to Bristol

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Steam hauled London -Bristol!!!!!
You can go down the Berks & Hants then up to bath to Bristol

Isn't the whole point of the Great Britain that it's several days of constant steam haulage over large parts of the country?

It's specifically down to Plymouth then to Bristol.

 

[zwk500]

Steam hauled London -Bristol!!!!!
You can go down the Berk's & Hants then up to bath to Bristol

Isn't the whole point of the Great Britain that it's several days of constant steam haulage over large parts of the country?

It's specifically down to Plymouth then to Bristol.

It will almost certainly be in as Paddington-Plymouth and Plymouth Bristol. There is an outside one or both schedules could also be split at Exeter (but that's unlikely as it's just a pit-stop).

 

[AnthonyRail]

Do we know what's on the first leg to Plymouth yet. Rostered to BIL 35018 but they is talking on Facebook of a black 5.

I'd make a effort to get the camera out if it's a bulleid

 

[Amlag]

Seems rather OTT that the Train Organiser the Railway Touring Co. refuses, other than to tour participants, to give out times, even the train’s daily starting times, due ‘ H&S’ when many steam worked Charter trains are in the NR Working Timetable etc, Eg Belmond British Pullman from London Victoria and Jacobite from Fort William etc.etc.

 

[zwk500]

Seems rather OTT that the Train Organiser the Railway Touring Co. refuses, other than to tour participants, to give out times, even the train’s daily starting times, due ‘ H&S’ when many steam worked Charter trains are in the NR Working Timetable etc, Eg Belmond British Pullman from London Victoria and Jacobite from Fort William etc.etc.

They have had many serious incidents of trespass in the past, particularly as people know the GB is a 'banker' for good steam action. Trespass by photographers costs both NR and the Tour TOC a vast amount of money, as well as giving railtours generally a bad name.
The WTT tours are in there because of the way the data feeds work, and taking them out of the data feeds would be more effort than it's worth, especially given that the Pullman paths aren't all steam and don't run every day, and the Jacobite paths are a long-established thing in the far parts of Scotland so anybody who's going filming it will likely know the times anyway regardless of the data.

 

[petesheep]

Looks like it's 44932 currently en route Carnforth to Southall (although Realtime Trains now says the service 5V42 is cancelled) No timings shown for Saturday's run yet: those suggesting 1C52 7.13 Paddington to Par would mean it's diesel hauled as it's a 95mph schedule.

 

[Train Maniac]

Looks like it's 44932 currently en route Carnforth to Southall (although Realtime Trains now says the service 5V42 is cancelled) No timings shown for Saturday's run yet: those suggesting 1C52 7.13 Paddington to Par would mean it's diesel hauled as it's a 95mph schedule.

Hm. That's twice now 35018 hasn't been available as advertised for a tour. It was supposed to be on the Golden Arrow at the beginning of this month, but was replaced by Mayflower last minute due to mechanical failure.

ps. Welcome to the forum

 

[Robin Procter]

In the past the operators RTC have been happy to email me headcodes of their trains but I have today received an email stating :

"Unfortunately we have been asked not to issue the timings for our GBXV tour to bystanders due to concerns relating to trespassing, sorry."

This is of course very disappointing and doubtless due to a few 'enthusiasts' behaving irresponsibly and spoiling it for those of us who take care not to trespass < I have politely replied to that effect.

Not to be deterred and therefore intent on working out its approximate timetable, does anyone have a record of last year's Day 1 of The Great Britain XV please? The critical piece of the jigsaw is the Paddington departure time. I know it approached Taunton not long after 11:00-ish but don't remember when it left Paddington.

If I find out anything I'll share it here.

Robin

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2023 ==

Looks like it's 44932 currently en route Carnforth to Southall (although Realtime Trains now says the service 5V42 is cancelled) No timings shown for Saturday's run yet: those suggesting 1C52 7.13 Paddington to Par would mean it's diesel hauled as it's a 95mph schedule.

.... Network Rail always path a special charter as "diesel" on RealTime Trains etc as far as I know. There is often a diesel support loco on the tail.

 

[zwk500]

.... Network Rail always path a special charter as "diesel" on RealTime Trains etc as far as know. There is often a diesel support loco on the tail.

Correct. There are very few timings for steam in the system so diesel timings are used with appropriate flexibility.

 

[petesheep]

Correct. There are very few timings for steam in the system so diesel timings are used with appropriate flexibility.

Yes, but when it's really steam they usually describe it as diesel with a heavy load and path it at 60mph or 75mph. 5V42, the allegedly cancelled movement of 44932 from Carnforth to Southall is still moving and has reached Northampton. It is described as diesel with a load of 715 tonnes and pathed at 60mph.

 

[zwk500]

Yes, but when it's really steam they usually describe it as diesel with a heavy load and path it at 60mph or 75mph.

Yes, because of a limitation of the system. NR planners cannot force the description, it is driven of whatever the data in the timing load that the planner uses is listed as. For the most common steam timing loads, that's a Class 56 with 715tonnes.

 

[MiNi]

1z10,7.11 Paddington -Plymouth. Timed at 60mph.

 

[Robin Procter]

1z10,7.11 Paddington -Plymouth. Timed at 60mph.

.... Brilliant! Thankyou thankyou thankyou!

Here's the RealTime Trains 1Z10 page :

Realtime Trains | 1Z10 0711 London Paddington to Plymouth | 15/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z10 0711 departure from London Paddington to Plymouth on 15/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Black Five 44392 confirmed and Plymouth-Bristol leg of Day 1 is 1Z13 as link below :

Realtime Trains | 1Z13 1734 Plymouth to Bristol Temple Meads | 15/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z13 1734 departure from Plymouth to Bristol Temple Meads on 15/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[MiNi]

Anybody know if a diesel will be along for the ride and/or assisting 44392 over the banks.

 

[Robin Procter]

Anybody know if a diesel will be along for the ride and/or assisting 44392 over the banks.

.... A West Coast Railways livery Class47 in support on the tail.

Btw, the Black Five is 44932 - I'm not trying to be pedantic, it's a typo error I could easily have made myself!

 

[petesheep]

.... A West Coast Railways livery Class47 in support on the tail.

Btw, the Black Five is 44932 - I'm not trying to be pedantic, it's a typo error I could easily have made myself!

The diesel shadow is pathed separately as 0Z13 for the return (Plymouth to Bristol) leg.

 

[Train Maniac]

1z10,7.11 Paddington -Plymouth. Timed at 60mph.

Brilliant. Cheers mate!

 

[Robin Procter]

The diesel shadow is pathed separately as 0Z13 for the return (Plymouth to Bristol) leg.

.... When you say "shadow" you mean uncoupled and separate and as the 0Z13 allocation suggests.

When I photographed the GBXV (hauled by 'Duchess of Sutherland') last year when running through Somerset, the WCR support Class47 802 was 'shadowing' the train independently running about 5-10* minutes behind - *I would have to dig out my original RAW images to check the metadata accurate times.

I was about to leave my location and was surprised by the sudden appearance of the WCR Class47 running light.

Back then I wasn't aware of RealTime Trains and NR path timetables to be able to refer to them.

 

[zwk500]

.... When you say "shadow" do you mean uncoupled and separate? As compared to being coupled on the tail.

Yes, if its timed in a separate class 0 schedule it will be running light engine as a separate train.
WCRC like to do this for the Great Britain in particular but also do it for other tours like ones involving Tornado if they can make it work.
Very occasionally charter TOCs will ask or be asked by NR to run the diesel light either behind or (very rarely) in front for Operational reasons.