Most heritage lines have examples of the first generation of railway operations. There is quite a lot of second generation infrastructure that is slowly coming to the end of its life. In the medium term future there will be a time when there are no PSBs remaining on the natinal network. The question here is will there be any interest in preserving a panel anywhere and exmples of colour light signalling. My primary interest is signalling but the same goes for rolling stock. Will there be a place for the likes of 150s/158s?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
The future of preservation
- Thread starter Zoe
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
ChrisCooper
Established Member
Hopefully at very least the NRM will save an example of an NX pannel. Can't see the preserved railways doing much in terms of modern signalling. As for stock, hopefully some modern stuff will be saved when withdrawn. I'm sure the EMUs will go the same way as the early stuff though, with just the odd static coach saved (not even like they can be used as hauled stock unlike the earlier EMUs). Complexity is a big problem when it comes to all modern transport preservation, what with all the electronics. Even back to the 70s and 80s you are getting a lot of printed circuit boards and even chips, not the sort of things you bash up in a workshop. Modern stuff is harder to cold store too, yet warm storage is expensive. Air suspension bags and air-conditioning are particular problems, the former tends to crack and leak in storage (like road vehicle tires when standing for long periods, or my bike as I found out when I went to use it having not ridden it for over a year) the latter needs running regularly to ventilate the vehicle. Another problem is the finite amount of space and resources for preservation. Unless older stuff is scrapped or mothballed, where does the space come from to keep new units and where does the money come from to operate and preserve them?
I think there is a panel on the Paignton and Dartmouth railway.
Preserved railways will probably always be majority steam operation, because that's what tends to attract ordinary members of the public as it's 'different', and reflects the romantic age of rail. There might be places for some more recent items, but in the end it's going to depend on people wanting to preserve things and once they have done so attracting passengers. To the non-enthusiast market, there is little attraction for some of the more recent examples of modern traction, but this tends to change with time. It depends what form the railway takes in future.
That line is the exception though, it's primarily run as a tourist attracting and is and is run on a commercial basis for profit. A panel most likely helps them reduce costs.
Ploughman
Established Member
I think the first example of RETB was on a Heritage line.
Ravenglass and Eskdale.
Ravenglass and Eskdale.
northernrail
Member
im sure theres a place for a 158, strange thinkin about a Cl70 being possibly prsereved in 60 years or so.
ChrisCooper
Established Member
That's not proper RETB though, they just use radios to autherise movements. Similar principal, unlike RETB there is no electronic token. Far simpler and cheaper, and safe enough based on the lower speeds and that even head on, trains should be able to stop line of sight.
At St Albans South we are currently setting up a 'second-generation' display of 4-aspect signals. These are around 30 years old and are already historic, in that they are filament bulbs and were replaced by LED heads.
North Yorkshire Moors railway uses colour light signals at Pickering, and the Embsay and Bolton Abbey railway have long-term plans at Bolton Abbey for installing an electro-pneumatic system which I think may count as 'second generation' equipment.
So there is some awareness in the heritage railway world of the need to preserve such items.
North Yorkshire Moors railway uses colour light signals at Pickering, and the Embsay and Bolton Abbey railway have long-term plans at Bolton Abbey for installing an electro-pneumatic system which I think may count as 'second generation' equipment.
So there is some awareness in the heritage railway world of the need to preserve such items.
Chris125
Established Member
Epping Ongar are also installing some GEML 'Searchlight' signals.
ChrisCooper
Established Member
The GCR has at least one colour light, a 3 aspect distant (double yellow, single yellow, green) approaching Loughborough from the South. Although not in use yet, the north section also has a lot of colour lights. Actually I think there might be a colour light controlling the crossing near Ruddington. Been a while since i was up there. Oviously colour light signalling is pretty old anyway, especially on mainlines and at busy stations. The SR particularly was an early fan of colour light signals and electrical points.
That's another one, quite a few preserved railways have electric point motors for points remote from the box. Of cource another bit of fairly modern infrastructure found on quite a few preserved lines is the AOCL crossing. Can't think of any with barriers though (either automatic or manual), all the preserved railways crossings I can think of are either open or gated. Then again neither of those are going to disapear fast (only the locally controlled barrier crossing is becoming rarer as more move to CCTV or are bridged).
That's another one, quite a few preserved railways have electric point motors for points remote from the box. Of cource another bit of fairly modern infrastructure found on quite a few preserved lines is the AOCL crossing. Can't think of any with barriers though (either automatic or manual), all the preserved railways crossings I can think of are either open or gated. Then again neither of those are going to disapear fast (only the locally controlled barrier crossing is becoming rarer as more move to CCTV or are bridged).
I'd be a bit concerned if Loughborough's Down Distant could show green, considering passenger trains can only go as far as Loughborough platforms. Loughborough's down home signal does have a distant arm below it and I believe this signal is exempt from TS1/4.2.1 this Inner Distant though would be fixed at caution. The Down Distant's normal aspect should be single yellow with double yellow only if the Down Home is off. Quorn though does have 3 aspect colour light distants on both lines and these can show green.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
The mid Hants railway has a panel box, 3 aspect colour light signalling, aws and electric point motors.
All correct. To clarify, the Down Outer Distant (auto) will clear to a YY aspect once the Down Outer Home is 'off', irrespective of the position of the Down Inner Home. We also have numerous sets of motor-worked points at the south end of Loughborough, one set on the crossover road at Quorn, and a few more going in at Swithland. Rothley's Down Distant and Outer Home are motor-worked semaphores too.
When Quorn sends TES you would pull off the Down Home. I wouldn't have thought you'd pull off the Down Inner Home until the train was nearly at a stand as you'd need the train to be under control before allowing it into the platform. The train should never approach the Distant with both the Home and Inner Home off.
In practice, the Down Inner Home is also exempt from TS1/4.2.1 (or whatever number it is), so it's normal to pull off right through into the platform before the train reaches the Outer Distant. There's little point checking a Driver right down almost to a stand to advise him that the next signal in advance is at Danger, when that signal's fixed at Danger anyway.
The Down Home you refer to, to avoid confusion, is the Down Outer Home.
The Down Home you refer to, to avoid confusion, is the Down Outer Home.
Yes, although all drivers would expect to have to stop at the Inner Home as the Inner Distant is fixed at caution.
Not at all confusing for a GWR person but I understand.
.
Only at Alton though. I thought this was due to the fact that this set up allows them to run trains from the MHR lines to the the national network, quickly and easily without any special signalling problems.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
That's not the reason. There still is no signalled route. I think you're confusing it with the fact we had to interface with their signalling, which meant different track circuits etc due to the 3rd rail.
So what siganlling instructions do they have to give if they want to move a train onto the mainline?
Last edited:
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
You'll have to ask an Ops Manager.
- Status