The future of Gatwick Express

[flitwickbeds]

GatEx has been suspended since March 2020. With the likely permanent reduction in business travel, coupled with the fact that GTR already offer an overlapping service between London, Gatwick and Brighton which takes the same amount of time - albeit from London Bridge rather than Victoria, and at half the frequency - what is the likelihood of the service ever returning?

If it does return, will there be changes to, eg, frequency, journey time, stopping patterns?

If it doesn't, what could its paths be better used for?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

GatEx has been suspended since March 2020.

Does that mean that the previously dedicated platforms at Victoria (13 + 14?) haven't been / aren't being used? (Not been through there since July 2019).

 

[yorkie]

Does that mean that the previously dedicated platforms at Victoria (13 + 14?) haven't been / aren't being used? (Not been through there since July 2019).

They are regularly used, just not as as intensively as before.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2021 ==

.... GTR already offer an overlapping service between London, Gatwick and Brighton which takes the same amount of time - albeit from London Bridge rather than Victoria, and at half the frequency ...

GTR run 4 fast trains per hour between London Bridge and Gatwick Airport, taking 28-30 minutes, as well as 8 fast trains per hour between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport, taking 30-33 minutes.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

They are regularly used, just not as as intensively as before.

Thanks for clarifying. And to touch on a subject discussed more fully in another thread, do those services which do still operate, from platforms 13 + 14 at Victoria, still require / charge the higher fares to be paid between there and Gatwick?

 

[JonathanH]

Thanks for clarifying. And to touch on a subject discussed more fully in another thread, do those services which do still operate, from platforms 13 + 14 at Victoria, still require / charge the higher fares to be paid between there and Gatwick?

If platforms 13 and 14 are used by Southern services, passengers should be directed to the platform 9 to 12 barrier line.

If it doesn't, what could its paths be better used for?

This has been discussed before - the paths (for the relevant services which terminate at Gatwick) would remain empty as there isn't capacity south of Gatwick for them to be used for something else.

The paths for Gatwick Express which extend to Brighton (xx29 / xx59 from Victoria to Brighton) are currently being used by a Southern service to Brighton formed primarily, but not entirely, by Gatwick Express stock calling additionally at East Croydon and Haywards Heath (so in effect Gatwick Express *is* still running, but as a Southern service, and not non-stop).

 

[Journeyman]

Thanks for clarifying. And to touch on a subject discussed more fully in another thread, do those services which do still operate, from platforms 13 + 14 at Victoria, still require / charge the higher fares to be paid between there and Gatwick?

The barriers to platforms 13 and 14 are out of use, and pax diverted through the ones adjacent, so standard fares are charged.

 

[flitwickbeds]

GTR run 4 fast trains per hour between London Bridge and Gatwick Airport, taking 28-30 minutes, as well as 8 fast trains per hour between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport, taking 30-33 minutes.

Thanks for the additional info.

Does that mean the previous GatEx service was actually slower than a non-"express" service which took the same time* and called at additional stops?

*GatEx always advertised a journey time of 30 minutes

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for clarifying. And to touch on a subject discussed more fully in another thread, do those services which do still operate, from platforms 13 + 14 at Victoria, still require / charge the higher fares to be paid between there and Gatwick?

If the premium readers are used, then yes (unless they have been reprogrammed; anyone know?)

I suspect GTR routinely leave the side gate between platforms 12/13 open, to enable passengers to tap in/out at readers that charge the regular fare, but I am not certain what the arrangements are.

Incidentally GTR could be in deep trouble for charging differential fares; see:

Collective competition claim against Govia Thameslink Railway

This press release hit the newswires yesterday: COLLECTIVE COMPETITION CLAIM AGAINST GOVIA THAMESLINK RAILWAY FOR OVERCHARGING RAIL PASSENGERS ON BRIGHTON MAINLINE SINCE OCTOBER 2015 London 6 July 2021 – An application to commence an opt-out collective action (“Claim”) was launched in the...

www.railforums.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2021 ==

Does that mean the previous GatEx service was actually slower than a non-"express" service which took the same time* and called at additional stops?

*GatEx always advertised a journey time of 30 minutes

Not when it ran most recently, but a few years ago, yes the ''GX'' brand was indeed often was slower, especially at peak times

See:

Gatwick Express "every 15 minutes"

On the Gatwick Express website and - particularly - on the main departure board at Victoria station, the claim is made that Gatwick Express runs "every 15 minutes". However, it does not. For instance, today (Friday 18th November 2016) there are departures at 05:45, 06:00 and 06:15, and at...

www.railforums.co.uk

Help - why shouldn't you use the Gatwick Express?

Hello forum members, As some of you know, I run a YouTube channel which documents my travel experiences. I'm going to make some videos this year about travel in London and options for connecting to airports and other transport. The audience is going to be tourists. One of these videos...

www.railforums.co.uk

GX Brighton extensions

Were these previously southern express trains ? There are still Southern express trains too I believe oddly utilising metro /6 units on Saturdays Is the GX popular with Brighton to Gatwick passengers ? Could the capacity be used better ? Services often get delayed at Gatwick for these services ?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

2tph Brighton Express from Victoria is operating at present, just under the Southern brand.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

If platforms 13 and 14 are used by Southern services, passengers should be directed to the platform 9 to 12 barrier line.


This has been discussed before - the paths (for the relevant services which terminate at Gatwick) would remain empty as there isn't capacity south of Gatwick for them to be used for something else.

The paths for Gatwick Express which extend to Brighton (xx29 / xx59 from Victoria to Brighton) are currently being used by a Southern service to Brighton formed primarily, but not entirely, by Gatwick Express stock calling additionally at East Croydon and Haywards Heath (so in effect Gatwick Express *is* still running, but as a Southern service, and not non-stop).

All the GAT ex paths can be extended to Brighton. There is capacity for it. It would probably require a recast, but that doesn't mean there isn't capacity for it. I'm not saying it will actually happen, and other things would likely prevent it even if there is capacity like concenrs about performance, but it is theoretically possible.

 

[JonathanH]

All the GAT ex paths can be extended to Brighton. There is capacity for it. It would probably require a recast, but that doesn't mean there isn't capacity for it. I'm not saying it will actually happen, and other things would likely prevent it even if there is capacity like concenrs about performance, but it is theoretically possible.

If it requires a recast, then presumably they can't currently be extended on the existing timetable. Are you suggesting that they would be non-stop paths or stoppers? Overconcentration of Brighton line capacity on services to Brighton is not good for anything.

 

[Bald Rick]

All the GAT ex paths can be extended to Brighton. There is capacity for it

No they can’t, and no there isn’t. Otherwise they would have been.

 

[Aictos]

With regards to the Gatwick Express paths, as this is a speculation thread why don't you remove the paths for reliability purposes as Gatwick Airport is already served by more then enough Southern, Great Western and Thameslink services. With the paths removed you could recast the Brighton Mainline timetable slightly to make it more resilient as well as easier for service recovery

 

[Fincra5]

Until the works at Gatwick are done... Paths are in even shorter supply.

 

[cle]

I could only think that the other 2tph could get to Three Bridges / Horsham.
There isn't demand to really send them to Cat/Tat. The other option might be another 2tph to Redhill and Gatwick (stopping).

Tonbridge is 4 car - one day I hope it can rejoin the direct services, but seems unlikely right now.

The best benefit of re-purposing the 4tph would be 4 more services to call at Clapham Junction and East Croydon each hour - if it could be finagled - which would spread those folks more widely - and spread Gatwick passengers too.