The DfT - Meddling

[devon_metro]

Sums it up nicely I think

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displa...uleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch

 

[mrcheek]

awww, look at the cute doggie!!!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But seriously, some good points here. especially about Crossrail. why cant they extend it to Reading, which is where most of the problems on FGW's lines seem to originate from?
Probably because people from Reading westwards all voted Tory.

But then the guy lets himself down with his last comment. A diversion away from the Dawlish sea wall?!?!? If this ever happened I would abandon the railways forever...

 

[alex57601]

But then the guy lets himself down with his last comment. A diversion away from the Dawlish sea wall?!?!? If this ever happened I would abandon the railways forever...

To be fair though a diversion away from the Dawlish sea wall will prevent any restrictions on Vomiter's traversing along the section when the weather's rough, and is also forward thinking should the global warming scare of low-lying land getting flooded absorbs the Dawlish section and cuts off Plymouth and Cornwall from the rest of the rail network.

Also it would probably go some way to accelerating trains between Penzance and Exeter that are going to places beyond Bristol, like Birmingham, London etc.

 

[devon_metro]

Things wouldn't be much faster due to the hilly nature of the route it would have to take, unless NR are building a massive tunnel!

 

[Max]

Things wouldn't be much faster due to the hilly nature of the route it would have to take, unless NR are building a massive tunnel!

Probably would have happened on the continent

 

[1D53]

Was going well till this

'In the mean time, allocate more carriages to us and return the modern trains, which you've snatched from our FGW branch lines for re-deployment to the Midlands, so that we may consign the ex-BR "buses on rails" to the scrap heap.'

 

[O L Leigh]

The Dawlish seawall diversion is not his idea, but just one of several examples of ancient planned infrastructure upgrades he's dragging up to illustrate his point that the SW is getting a raw deal.

I've said it before but I'll say it again, folks. Never believe everything you read in the papers (or on their websites). He may have a point, but this totally unattributed piece sounds primarily like sour grapes of the highest order. I would never take a piece of journalism as proof of anything at all, especially when the author so clearly has an agenda that he is attempting to sell.

O L Leigh

 

[Donny Dave]

Things wouldn't be much faster due to the hilly nature of the route it would have to take, unless NR are building a massive tunnel!

Isn't the direct route something like 10 or 12 miles shorter though compared to the route along the seawall?

 

[paul1609]

personally I dont think the South-West is getting a raw deal.
All services beyond Exeter are hugely subsidised. most of the branch lines only survived because of summer holiday trafffic which has over the years declined and still continues to do so. Some of the branch lines such as Looe and Newquay make no economic sense whatsoever.

 

[devon_metro]

Isn't the direct route something like 10 or 12 miles shorter though compared to the route along the seawall?

Probably but as mentioned, its very steep so would be windy and therefore slow.

 

[djw1981]

Part of the South-West arguement is that if you look at the places which are 2hrs from London in other directions - York-Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool, they are all having pretty good times economically, but due to speed restrictions on GWML, the 2hr limit is closer to London than the other cities are. The GWML needs total route modernisation - signals, track, civils etc ready for the IEP. But it needs to look at the full corridor. Why send trains for the Cornwall/Devon area via Bristol? Why not speed up the (current) SWT lines? Why use HST as stoppers?

Sadly, Devon & Cornwall and being made to pay for voting Lib/Con....but that doesn't explain why that route wasn't updated when ECML and WCML were in the 1960's-1980's.

 

[Nym]

Same reason at the MML, there's not realy that much there... and they have a motorway instead...

 

[Mojo]

It's not just the rural areas getting a raw deal - Bristol is the most productive city outside London, but has an appalling local rail network mainly due to the lack of political will. Take a look at how the Cross City line in Birmingham was improved in the 1980s and how it was improved more recently for a 6tph service during the day. It was down to councils and the PTE getting together the funding and organising for it. A tram system, however, would be more appropriate for Bristol due to the limited scope of the existing network.

The redevelopment of Birmingham New Street should never go ahead according to the Government's own appraisal methods - it will hardly improve train capacity and its effect in encouraging modal shift will be limited, even by the most liberal estimates - the local traffic congestion is more limited compared to other areas - and the local economy is not as well developed as that of other areas such as London, Manchester or Bristol, yet it still goes ahead as they made the loudest noise. The 'Grand Central' scheme would benefit the country as a whole as it would allow for better passage for longer distance trains.

 

[Nym]

Well there was nothing functionaly wrong with BNS for passengers, additional routes through the middle and whatnot would have helped. Places like Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Bristol, etc, need newer systems. In manc for example, Victoria needs to have never been demolished in the first place! It needs the platforms it had before, that way they can do castlefeild properly because then hey can have the space to divert things properly through vic. IMO Manchester Central should still be open too and the Metrolink should be scrapped on the Bury/Altrinam lines and go for a 'Manchester Crossrail' evevated railway through the CC between Vic, Pic and Central

 

[A0]

awww, look at the cute doggie!!!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But seriously, some good points here. especially about Crossrail. why cant they extend it to Reading, which is where most of the problems on FGW's lines seem to originate from?
Probably because people from Reading westwards all voted Tory.

But then the guy lets himself down with his last comment. A diversion away from the Dawlish sea wall?!?!? If this ever happened I would abandon the railways forever...

Crossrail probably can't go to Reading because it would need further electrification out to Reading and that's not a very logical place to end the wires, since you have onward local services to Bedwyn and Oxford and you'd end up with passengers needing to make changes at Reading - which is already at capacity.

As for avoiding the Dawlish sea wall, a slightly more sensible option would be to reopen the Southern line from Exeter to Plymouth via Dartmoor.... only needs about 12 miles of track from Bere Alston to Meldon to restore it.....

 

[paul1609]

I dont think that reopening the Southern Main Line is an option.
All the original route through Plymouth is heavily built over. I've tried following it on the ground but in most places its impossible to follow.

I dont think the the GWR line could handle all the traffic from St Budeaux to Plymouth.

The Southern Line mostly followed the Northern Edge of Dartmoor and only serves 2 smallish towns in the 50 odd miles to Exeter.

 

[A0]

I dont think that reopening the Southern Main Line is an option.
All the original route through Plymouth is heavily built over. I've tried following it on the ground but in most places its impossible to follow.

I dont think the the GWR line could handle all the traffic from St Budeaux to Plymouth.

The Southern Line mostly followed the Northern Edge of Dartmoor and only serves 2 smallish towns in the 50 odd miles to Exeter.

Hadn't realised they used to run different routes through Plymouth - just read up on that.

The bit I meant was Bere Alston to Meldon though - whilst I agree it didn't serve particularly heavily populated places, the key to it is that unlike the Dawlish route, it's not so exposed and is potentially quicker from Plymouth to Exeter - which if you're running long-distance services is a factor.

Assume for a moment that the route was available - if you diverted all XC services via Dartmoor and then ran all GW services via Dawlish - it would create extra capacity, would probably improve reliability and the only losers would be the few passengers who picked up XC services between Plymouth and Exeter - and there aren't that many significant places along there so they could easily go onto Plymouth or Exeter to make that connection.

 

[paul1609]

The Southern route that is still open is basically 2 sidings. I reckon the cost of reopening the missing section (rebuilding Meldon Viaduct) and doubling the remainder, installing signalling to modern eu standards etc, you'd probably be better off building a new high speed avoiding line between Starcross and Newton Abbot.
The GWR line west of Plymouth is pretty slow 40/50 mph I think to St Budeaux. The single line over the Albert Bridge already causes congestion over this section. I often see HSTs and the Gunnislake Units waiting paths on Weston Mill Viaduct when I walk through Devonport Dockyard. I doubt this section could handle a main line service from Exeter as well.