The Commonwealth

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What relevance in world matters do forum members think applies to this organisation in 2014 and is it just seen as something as a left-over from the days of the British Empire, noting who is the head of this ?

 

[Butts]

What relevance in world matters do forum members think applies to this organisation in 2014 and is it just seen as something as a left-over from the days of the British Empire, noting who is the head of this ?

As the UK's influence in the World has declined possibly so has that of the Commonwealth.

The uniting factor is possibly The Queen who has been there almost from it's inception. When she disappears from the scene it may also.

I like the fact Commonwealth Countries have a "High Commission" rather than an Embassy - something of a throwback to previous times.

 

[DownSouth]

The Commonwealth has an increasing amount of relevance the further you get from Britain.

It's interesting to note that, despite no history of British colonialism (and this decision coming well after the atrocities of British colonialism stopped being hidden) the democratically elected government of Rwanda decided to join the Commonwealth as a way of associating themselves with a bloc having a strong history of stability and democracy.

Similarly, the Commonwealth has had a not insignificant role of helping hold various dictators in Fiji accountable, Fiji needs the trade links to much to cope with having their membership suspended.

Advantages for the larger member nations like the UK or Australia include trade links with nations which otherwise wouldn't be likely trade partners.


All that being said, I can see it becoming weaker once the Queen abdicates or dies, the head of the Commonwealth is now a position to be elected by the member states (there has not yet been a serious move by any member state to call for a re-election of the Queen) and some members might wish to nominate somebody other than Prince Charles as the next leader.

 

[afyutr]

I didn't know that about the elected head; could be very interesting if Prince Charles isn't widely received.

 

[DownSouth]

I didn't know that about the elected head; could be very interesting if Prince Charles isn't widely received.

This could be a far bigger possibility than people in Britain think. The support of the Queen outside of Britain has a large proportion of personal support for her (as a person and leader of integrity) rather than support for the system. The various republics which are Commonwealth members do not share any loyalty to the system and might wish to select some other leader on merit.

Even in Australia (currently a Commonwealth Realm with the Queen as the head of state, like the UK) there is a not insignificant number of people who respect the Queen, but don't have that level of respect for Prince Charles and would consider the Queen's death as an appropriate time for Australia to become a republic. Some have even gone as far as saying Australia should vote to become a republic soon, but with it only taking effect after her death.

I'm kind of in that boat, except that I have to take the pragmatic approach of recognising that getting a republic should wait until we can get the right kind of republic which is actually better than the constitutional monarchy. I don't see that happening any time soon though, so if it comes up for a referendum again I'll probably be voting to keep the Queen on the back of the coins and the Governor-General as the functional head of state.

 

[Greenback]

There have been a lot of changes since the start of the monarch's long reign, so no doubt her passing would be seen by some as a good point to make changes. The Commonwealth, like all orgnaisations, will have to change somewehere along the way, though that's not to say it hasn't changed since it's inception. I remember learning that Churchill saw the Commonwealth as very important to the UK in conjunction with other organisations, such as the EU, and I dare say that is not the case now.

My own view is that the Commonwealth will continue, but in an amended form, for as long as its various members see merit in it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just look at the vast annual amounts of food products that both Australia and New Zealand, both Commonwealth members, used to export to Britain in the pre-EC British membership and of the EC rules on such non-EC food imports that was made clear to Britain in their attempt to obtain EC membership.

Where was the Commonwealth solidarity at that particular moment in time ?

 

[Johnuk123]

This country has nothing whatsoever in common with mainland Europe other than it's proximity.

We have hundreds of years in common with the Commonwealth and how we dropped it like a stone when we became just another tiny part of the vast European Empire is terrible.

 

[ainsworth74]

This country has nothing whatsoever in common with mainland Europe other than it's proximity.

You mean literally nothing, not language (you know that one that has roots in Germany and other European countries), culture, race (seem to recall that Anglo-Saxons didn't originate here), history or anything like that at all? We have no links whatsoever to Europe? Seriously?

I'm with Greenback on this issue the Commonwealth will remain for as long as it's members see value in its existence. The 'danger' period if you will for the future of the Commonwealth will definitely be when the Queen dies, though if it can choose someone other than Charles that danger may be negated.

 

[anme]

This country has nothing whatsoever in common with mainland Europe other than it's (sic) proximity.

Wow. For me, this post sums up modern Britain. Get out while you still can (which may be harder if the UK leaves the EU)!

 

[transmanche]

This country has nothing whatsoever in common with mainland Europe other than it's proximity.

I recently finished watching the Danish political drama Borgen on BBC4. It struck me how similar Danish politics was to UK politics; coalition politics, health service, troops in Afghanistan, immigration, relationship with the EU, relationship with a devolved nation. Every single political issue that was raised in the programme was identical to one we're facing here. And we could learn a lot from them.

What the UKIP nutters don't want is for you to realise just how much we do have in common with our European neighbours.

 

[WestCoast]

I recently finished watching the Danish political drama Borgen on BBC4. It struck me how similar Danish politics was to UK politics; coalition politics, health service, troops in Afghanistan, immigration, relationship with the EU, relationship with a devolved nation. Every single political issue that was raised in the programme was identical to one we're facing here. And we could learn a lot from them.

What the UKIP nutters don't want is for you to realise just how much we do have in common with our European neighbours.

I agree, I think it's farcical to say that we have nothing in common with our neighbours. Sure, there are cultural and language differences, but Commonwealth nations aren't Britain Mark 2. Whenever I've been to Canada, I've felt the culture and politics to be much more US-biased.

A lot of countries in Europe are having the same internal debates about the EU, immigration, health services e.t.c e.t.c. I mean you could argue the UK has a lot more in common, economically and socially at least, with the "old world" nations such as France than with "new world" nations such as New Zealand.

Empires are history, trade ties are the new version of that. So, to echo other posters, the Commonwealth will be around as long as its members deem it to be worth involving themselves in.

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Just look at the vast annual amounts of food products that both Australia and New Zealand, both Commonwealth members, used to export to Britain in the pre-EC British membership and of the EC rules on such non-EC food imports that was made clear to Britain in their attempt to obtain EC membership.

Where was the Commonwealth solidarity at that particular moment in time ?

Should the UK be importing vast quantities of food products from literally the other side of the world though? Unless such food products can't be sourced from closer to home or are specialist items, would it be considered economically and environmentally sound to do this? If I'm in a shop, I'll try to at least buy produce sourced from Europe, although preferably from the UK/Ireland.

 

[chorleyjeff]

This country has nothing whatsoever in common with mainland Europe other than it's proximity.

We have hundreds of years in common with the Commonwealth and how we dropped it like a stone when we became just another tiny part of the vast European Empire is terrible.

the



Depends how far back you go. We shared being part of the Roman Empire with most of Europe. England and much of France were united a few hundred years ago.
I guess you mean Empire when you say hundreds of years in common with the Commonwealth. But low hundreds rather than many hundreds.

However I agree your sentiments about loyalty to the former Empire members who came to our aid in worls Wars. Especially when I walk past the monument to six Aussi fliers who perished in their Wellington when it crashed into the West
Penine Moors and think of all the lads who crossed the world to help out the old country.
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I agree, I think it's farcical to say that we have nothing in common with our neighbours. Sure, there are cultural and language differences, but Commonwealth nations aren't Britain Mark 2. Whenever I've been to Canada, I've felt the culture and politics to be much more US-biased.

A lot of countries in Europe are having the same internal debates about the EU, immigration, health services e.t.c e.t.c. I mean you could argue the UK has a lot more in common, economically and socially at least, with the "old world" nations such as France than with "new world" nations such as New Zealand.

Empires are history, trade ties are the new version of that. So, to echo other posters, the Commonwealth will be around as long as its members deem it to be worth involving themselves in.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Should the UK be importing vast quantities of food products from literally the other side of the world though? Unless such food products can't be sourced from closer to home or are specialist items, would it be considered economically and environmentally sound to do this? If I'm in a shop, I'll try to at least buy produce sourced from Europe, although preferably from the UK/Ireland.

It is amazingly cheap to shift stuff in large ships so getting products from far away doesn't bother me too much but Ido get agitated about seasonal food being airfreighted from Africa.
Why favour Irish food and produce? At least other European counties have not supported their boys who kill UK residents, policemen and soldiers over the last few decades.

 

[TheKnightWho]

This country has nothing whatsoever in common with mainland Europe other than it's proximity.

We have hundreds of years in common with the Commonwealth and how we dropped it like a stone when we became just another tiny part of the vast European Empire is terrible.

I really hope you don't genuinely believe this. It genuinely makes me quite sad

I do find it odd that many of the anti-EU crowd seem to be so keen on the Commonwealth, though. Could it perhaps because they see Britain as the 'head' of it, whereas they can't say the same about the EU? Surely they'd have to reject all supra-national groups to really be consistent?

Democracy and sovereignty is important, but only when it's our own apparently. It's perfectly fine for us to interfere in everyone else's business it seems.

 

[Amberley54]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mozambique is a member of the Commonwealth, yet was never 'fortunate' enough to be part of the British Empire.

Therefore, must be some level of appeal beyond the Imperial Old Boys club.

 

[Oswyntail]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Commonwealth Games, as, in many ways, it does explain the attraction of the Commonwealth economically. It is very high level competition, but not dominated by USA/Russia/China/Europe. It is genuinely a much friendlier set up than the Olympics and those who have competed in both seem to prefer it.

 

[Butts]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mozambique is a member of the Commonwealth, yet was never 'fortunate' enough to be part of the British Empire.

Therefore, must be some level of appeal beyond the Imperial Old Boys club.

Portugese Colony
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I am surprised no one has mentioned the Commonwealth Games, as, in many ways, it does explain the attraction of the Commonwealth economically. It is very high level competition, but not dominated by USA/Russia/China/Europe. It is genuinely a much friendlier set up than the Olympics and those who have competed in both seem to prefer it.

That assumes the top athletes attend !!!

Ennis out, plus Farah by all accounts and uncertainty about Usain Bolt

As for it being a very high level that depends on the event - if you are talking Athletics overall The European Championships is probably a higher level.

At the moment no one seems to want to host the next but one.

I preferred "The Empire Games"

 

[Seacook]

All that being said, I can see it becoming weaker once the Queen abdicates or dies, the head of the Commonwealth is now a position to be elected by the member states (there has not yet been a serious move by any member state to call for a re-election of the Queen) and some members might wish to nominate somebody other than Prince Charles as the next leader.

Helen Mirren?

 

[Butts]

Helen Mirren?

Robert Mugabe - if he outlives her and Zimbabwe has not been kicked out

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How many former colonies of other European nations are now part of the Commonwealth, besides Mozambique ?

 

[DownSouth]

At the moment no one seems to want to host the next but one.

Your info must be out of date.

2018 will be the Gold Coast in Queensland, Australia - it was a very strong bid which had most of the other contenders withdrawing early to cut their losses, in keeping with the 2001 commitment from the Australian Commonwealth Games Association to host the games once in every third edition. Only four permanent new venues are to be constructed for it, and everything is well on schedule.

The host of the 2022 edition is not known yet, that's due to be voted on next year or 2016. The only sure thing is it won't be in Australia, the ACGA will not endorse even a token bid for the edition immediately after the previous Australian-hosted edition.
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Robert Mugabe - if he outlives her and Zimbabwe has not been kicked out

Zimbabwe's membership is currently suspended.

How many former colonies of other European nations are now part of the Commonwealth, besides Mozambique ?

Mozambique and Rwanda are the only two. There are others such as Papua New Guinea and Samoa which were never directly colonised by Britain, but had links with other Commonwealth countries like Australia or New Zealand.

South Sudan is a potential new member at some point which could be good influence on a country needing stability, but that won't be an exceptional case as Sudan was previously colonised by Britain.

 

[transmanche]

The host of the 2022 edition is not known yet, that's due to be voted on next year or 2016.

I think that is what Butts was referring to when he said "the next but one": following a recent article on the BBC Sport website.

The Commonwealth Games Federation is concerned about a lack of interest from member countries in hosting future Games. So far, no member country has expressed serious interest in hosting the 2022 event ahead of a March deadline. Some of the 71 members believe in-fighting threatens the CGF's future.

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Zimbabwe's membership is currently suspended.

After its membership was suspended in 2002, Zimbabwe actually left the Commonwealth in 2003.

How many former colonies of other European nations are now part of the Commonwealth, besides Mozambique ?

Other countries that have applied to join the Commonwealth include Algeria and Madagascar. Even the Palestinian Authority has expressed an interest.

 

[Giugiaro]

Portugese Colony

Being Portugal an old ally of England/UK, could explain it. I can't really say much about it. I once said that Angola was more attached to Portugal than Mozambique, but after the recent disagreement between Angola and Portugal, I don't know anymore...

Anyway, analysing this "commonwealth" could be interesting for this thread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Portuguese_Language_Countries

 

[DownSouth]

Being Portugal an old ally of England/UK, could explain it.

I don't think there is much more to explain than that the various 'rules' of the Commonwealth do allow nations to be admitted outside of the general membership criteria, and that such exceptional membership was granted to both Rwanda (previously associated with Germany and Belgium) and Mozambique with their regional proximity to numerous other Commonwealth members being a major factor.

Hanging out with nations like the UK and Australia (both of which have smoothly handled minority governments in the last few years) would be far better for increasing the stability of Rwanda than to be too close to Belgium!

Anyway, analysing this "commonwealth" could be interesting for this thread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Portuguese_Language_Countries

And then there is also the Francophonie.

 

[Giugiaro]

Yeah. They also have their own Olympic games right?

BTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophonie

 

[Yew]

Yeah. They also have their own Olympic games right?

BTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophonie

There must be something wrong with the link, no mentions of competitive cheese eating, and the synchronised white-flag raising events..

 

[DownSouth]

... and the synchronised white-flag raising events..

They surrendered the top spot in the rankings to the English cricket team

 

[Giugiaro]

Synchronized White-Flags?

In Portuguese football we call them "bye-bye" white tissues.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They surrendered the top spot in the rankings to the English cricket team

That was only our pathetic "amateur" XI...the men's team....

Overnight, our senior side, led magnificently by Charlotte Edwards, won the Ashes in Australia....