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The ancient art of splitting tickets?

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Broken Viking

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Hail all! <D
I'm wondering if the more experienced amongst us could possibly help me and explain to me (Or point me to a tutorial on) how one becomes adept and skilled in the art of finding the best places and ways to split tickets? :?:

I've just come off of Avantix after poking around for a good 45 minutes trying to find a cheap fare from Farnborough Group to Derby (A journey that I can see myself needing to make an awful lot from the near future onwards) and although my first ever attempt at trying to split my tickets up has given me an apparent saving of £2.20 off of the straight-up fare for the route, the saving is nowhere near the £10-£30 savings that others have reported making...And so I can only conclude that I've made a bit of a beef-up in the process somewhere! :oops::lol:

Aye...For reference, here's a copy of the list of split fares that I came up with (Sorted by price, highest first) including stations split at, and direct fares listed for comparison. Fares shown are from NFM02 as I havn't gotton around to installing NFM03 yet. All fares below are standard SVRs (Except BAW>RDG, which is 2x CDS) - I'm using Savers insted of Advance tickets as I'm useless at keeping to schedule and can't risk being booked onto specific trains, which would completely foul up my journey if I missed a connection anywhere. :roll:
Code:
[b]Fares to Derby (DBY) from:[/b]
  FNB, split WAT:		60.65  £1.60 Oyster ching to cross London.
  FNB, direct:			54.45  +London
  BAW, split RDG, OXF, BHM:	47.45
  BAW, split OXF only:		43.60
  BAW, split RDG and BHM:	43.45
  BAW, split RDG only:		43.35
  BAW/FNB Direct:		42.00  NOT London [Death's normal selection]
  BAW, split OXF and BHM:	41.95
  BAW, split BHM only:		39.80
Now surely - Given what others have said in the past about splitting, and the discounts they've made - If the "fast" route via London comes in at £54.45, then surely I should be able to knock down the cheapest available fare on any available route to about 50% that (£27.25) or less...Shouldn't I? :)

Farewell for now,. and many thanks in advance for any help! <D
>> Death <<
 
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Split ticket tend to take advantage of more 'local' operators who usually have subsidised fares, or PTE products.

You can't always split a journey, and there is usually very little point splitting a journey were a TOC sets both the split fares.

Look at using Chiltern etc...
 

LexyBoy

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Not an expert meself, all I know is that you want to be splitting at the boundaries between the TOCs pricing regions, so you get the smallest possible journey on the more expensive region. I don't know of any map or list of such points unfortunately.

In the case of BAW>DBY, it's pretty hard to avoid a long stretch on an XC priced ticket. I was looking mainly via Birmingham, and in this case the splitting point seems to be Banbury:
Code:
BAW>BAN   £18.15    GWR
BAW>LMS   £27.25    CC
Going towards Birmingham and onwards to Derby most journeys are priced by XC. Best I found were:
Code:
£40.45 split TAM (+LONDON) - 70p MORE (!) for "route Oxford"
£37.30 split BAN, BHM

Sure someone who knows about the west mids can do better!

I had thought the +LONDON route would be reasonably quick but it seems all the trains to Tamworth are slow LM services...
 

tony_mac

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Splitting at Banbury and Coventry is better.

or it would be if the train stopped there!
Have a look at the Banbury to Spring Road thread for splitting at Birmingham
 

Broken Viking

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Hail again! <D
After getting up today, I decided to have another hack at finding the cheapest ticket combinations and I've made some small progress. Although my art isn't that well practised yet, I have a feeling that I'm getting the general idea of splitting my tickets up! :)

First of all; To eliminate the number of routes I was checking and to keep things managable, I decided to ignore routes via London and concentrate on going BAW > RDG > LMS > [Any available route through the West Mids] > DBY as that appeared to be the cheapest available route. It also hit me that the fares set by FGW were giving a much better cost-per-mile than fares set by AXC...So then it occurred to me that splitting on TOC boundaries, and trying to cover as long a distance using as few TOCs as possible is probabally a good idea.
A small sub-note is that it's worth looking at all suitable ticket types that are available for the journey, as opposed to automatically assuming that returns are cheaper than singles. Even though it's a pretty long distance, I found that two CDSs between BAW and BAN come to £17.00 in total, a £1.15 saving on the SVR at £18.15. :)

After poking and prodding around with Avantix for another hour, here's the new table of fares that I came up with. Some of them miss the mark admittedly (Even if they're still cheaper than going via London!) and are the product of simple trial and error, but I don't have to buy the fares that aren't the cheapest! :D
Code:
[color=#AA0000][b]Route BAW > RDG > OXF > BAN > LMS > [i]BHM|COV|TAM[/i] > DBY:[/b][/color]
  BAW > BAN	CDS(2)	17.00	B3 GW	NOT London
  BAN > COV	SVR	 8.85	2V CC	Any permitted
  COV > TAM	CDS(2)	10.20	BX CC	Any permitted (BX = Not Brum?)
  TAM > DBY	SVR	10.45	2V CC	Any permitted (Same fare NOT Brum)
     [b]TOTAL:	2R 4S	46.50[/b]

  BAW > BAN	CDS(2)	17.00	B3 GW	NOT London
  BAN > TAM	SVR	15.20	2V CC	Any permitted
  TAM > DBY	SVR	10.45	2V CC	Any permitted (Same fare NOT Brum)
     [b]TOTAL:	2R 2S	42.65[/b]

  BAW > DBY	SVR	42.00	2V CC	NOT London
     [b]TOTAL:	1R 0S	42.00[/b]

  BAW > BAN	CDS(2)	17.00	B3 GW	NOT London
  BAN > LMS	SDS(2)	 8.30		Any permitted
  LMS > COV	SDS(2)	 4.90	   CC	Any permitted
  COV > DBY	SVR	10.05	2V CC	Any permitted
     [b]TOTAL:	1R 6S	40.25[/b]

  BAW > BAN	CDS(2)	17.00	B3 GW	NOT London
  BAN > BHM	SVR	10.05	2V CC	Any permitted
  BHM > DBY	SVR	 9.10	2V CC	Any permitted
     [b]TOTAL:	2R 2S	36.15[/b]

  BAW > BAN	CDS(2)	17.00	B3 GW	NOT London
  BAN > COV	SVR	 8.85	2V CC	Any permitted
  COV > DBY	SVR	10.05	2V CC	Any permitted
     [b]TOTAL:	2R 2S	35.90[/b]

[color=#AA0000][b]Fares list output[/b] (Sorted by price decending):[/color]
  Split RDG, OXF, BHM:	47.45
  Split BAN, COV, TAM:	46.50
  Split OXF only:	43.60
  Split RDG and BHM:	43.45
  Split RDG only:	43.35
  Split BAN and TAM:	42.65
  [color=#999999]Direct, NOT London:	42.00	Standard fare without splitting.[/color]
  Split OXF and BHM:	41.95
  Split BAN only:	40.90
  Split BAN, LMS, COV:	40.25
  Split BHM only:	39.80
  Split BAN and BHM:	36.15
  Split BAN and COV:	35.90
So as can be seen from the above, splitting tickets at Banbury and Coventry (As Tony suggested above) saves me £6.10 off of the typical direct fare (Going on fares in NFM 02)...And assuming that I know the NRRG correctly, the tickets via Coventry are all valid for "Any Permitted" route - Meaning that I should still be able to travel LMS > BHM > DBY without even touching Coventry...Although I don't mind avoiding Brum and running via Coventry if the NRRG requires it on that ticket pattern. :)

Best of all though is that if I put aside the £6.10 saving from each return journey into a jar or something, then those savings will allow me to take every sixth journey free and effectively get a "6 for 5" deal on accumulated journeys...Much better than the discount that I found last night (Splitting in Brum only) that worked out to a "20 for 19" equivalent! 8)

Split ticket tend to take advantage of more 'local' operators who usually have subsidised fares, or PTE products. You can't always split a journey, and there is usually very little point splitting a journey were a TOC sets both the split fares.
Not an expert meself, all I know is that you want to be splitting at the boundaries between the TOCs pricing regions, so you get the smallest possible journey on the more expensive region. I don't know of any map or list of such points unfortunately.
Aye, cheers for that Ste and Lexy! That kind of hit me last night when I realised that I was getting charged over the odds for FGW parts of the journey on prices set by AXC, so I tried dividing the load between FGW and AXC fare regions (With BAN > LMS being the only leg charged by different TOCs) and it knocked another £4.00 off of the fares after a bit of experimentation! :)

Of course, I'll have to recalculate everything once I've got the NFM 03 installed as some fare anomalies (Such as BAW > BAN being cheaper on 2x CDS than a SVR) might've been changed or removed...Hopefully though, I'll still manage an equivalent saving! 8)

Look at using Chiltern etc...
It might be because BAW is an FGW station and the BAW > BAN part of my journey is on FGW administered metals...But I couldn't find any Chiltern set fares on that route.
I'm not too knowlegable about Chiltern as a TOC...But don't they serve stations north and west of Oxford using the Cotswold line? :)

In the case of BAW>DBY, it's pretty hard to avoid a long stretch on an XC priced ticket. I was looking mainly via Birmingham, and in this case the splitting point seems to be Banbury.
Banbury's a definite splitting point in this case as it allows me to go the furthest possible distance on a single TOC's pricing, and noting that 2x CDS was cheaper than a SVR helped too.
North of Banbury the splitting points are a little more ambiguous as one goes via Leamington (An AXC station, thus the start of AXC set fares) and can then travel via Birmingham, Coventry, and/or Tamworth (Or all three! :shock:) to get to Derby...But as outlined above, going via Coventry seems to be the cheapest option at this time. :)

I had thought the +LONDON route would be reasonably quick but it seems all the trains to Tamworth are slow LM services...
I believe that some VWC services call at Bletchley and a lot call at Milton Keynes Central, so if I was going via London then I should be able to use a Pendo between EUS and MKC/BLE to overtake 2-3 LM trains on the way and keep my journey times down. Indeed, don't some Pendo's call at Tamworth too? :?:

Splitting at Banbury and Coventry is better.
or it would be if the train stopped there!
Have a look at the Banbury to Spring Road thread for splitting at Birmingham
Cheers for the tip, Tony! I just had a look at the thread that ye suggested and I must admit that it really confused me (I don't know the Stratford > Birmingham line that well) but I'll agree with thy suggestion that Banbury and Coventry are the best split points thus far! 8)

On top of that though; After discussing some possible VWC routes above I might try a quick route re-hash to see if I can get a hidden bargain running via Euston and changing at Milton Keynes or Tamworth. It's normally more expensive going via London admittedly...But I have found in the past (Especially with FNB > SOT journeys) that London can sometimes be a cheaper routing point! :shock::D

Farewell for now, and thanks for the advice so far! <D
>> Death <<
 

westcoaster

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what about route kensington oplympia, from my time as a guard that knocked a few quid of your ticket, have you tried the route fnb>clapham junc>watford/bletchley>bedford>bdy, might be worth a try.

vwc do not stop at bletchley
 

yorkie

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You only save huge amounts (usually) for journeys like that if you are doing a day trip. This is because CDRs ("Off Peak Day") are typically a lot cheaper than SVRs ("Off Peak" without the Day).
 

tony_mac

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Cheers for the tip, Tony! I just had a look at the thread that ye suggested and I must admit that it really confused me (I don't know the Stratford > Birmingham line that well) but I'll agree with thy suggestion that Banbury and Coventry are the best split points thus far! 8)

The point of that is just that Banbury to Spring Road is cheaper than going to Birmingham. While it isn't officially valid to go via Birmingham, National Rail enquiries and website say that it is (and the whole line is actually a bit of a mess!)

Of course, you've just pointed out that Banbury to Coventry can go via Birmingham (map GC) - which is cheaper still. As your direct train doesn't go through Coventry you could go Banbury - Coventry and Birmingham - Derby, but it's not much more for Coventry-Derby, and that allows you to travel via Coventry too.
 

Broken Viking

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Hail again! <D
Westcoaster: Cheers for the KPA routing tip! Currently having a go at FNB > CLJ > WFJ > BHM as ye suggested. Strangely enough - Even though Tamworth is closer to Derby than Birmingham - It's cheaper to buy my ticket from Brum and only use part of it's validity! :shock:

Yorkie: Ah, so that explains why returns have been figuring out more expensive in a few cases! I am looking at and calculating all available fares for the innumerate routes that I've found thus far though, and the SVR tends to work out cheaper than 2x CDS in the majority of instances. :)

Tony_Mac: Cheers for clarifying the point of the topic there! I did see what someone was saying there about using a Banbury > [Near Stratford] ticket as a sneakily discounted way of getting into Brum, and - Looking at some of the routes I'm considering - I'm using the same approach in some areas, such as buying a BHM > DBY ticket even if changing at Tamworth, as the TAM > DBY one is over a quid more! :?

Anyhow...I just found an interestingly cheap fare, but I need to double-check the routing and use of it with any RPOs/Guards here beforehand if that's possible. :)

When looking at possible routes via London, I came across an interesting fare in Avantix which - Though a straight-up SVR from London Terms to Brum via High Wycome - Also appears to be valid for travel from Waterloo via Reading as well, looking at the notes. Assuming that the ticket could be used as I think it might, that'll push my cheapest possible fare down to £34.70 - A £7.30 (17%) saving off of the standard Saver Return! :D
(To find this fare in Avantix, use: From: 1072, To: BHM, Disc: YNG. It's the NCH priced SVR in the "High Wycome" route column, bearing a 4E restriction, and priced at £21.10 in NFM 02.)

Considering that apparent validity, I'm considering that I could buy that ticket and use it as if I was travelling from Waterloo via Reading, which would mean that I could connect with that route using only a CDS from Blackwater to Wokingham. However I do want to double-check a couple of things before considering that route as valid:
  1. Even though it's valid from Waterloo (Presumably using the Ascot line) and Reading, would I have to travel Reading > Paddington > High Wycome to be valid on that ticket, or could I still go Reading > Leamington Spa > Birmingham as currently planned?
  2. Although I know that there's nothing whatsoever stopping me from using less validity than a ticket offers at the destination end, would I be allowed to "pick up" the ticket from Wokingham in this manner, or would I have to board somewhere closer to Waterloo?
  3. Is this ticket actually valid from Waterloo in the first place, or is it just a mistake? London > Brum via High Wycome doesn't strike me as a route that one would normally use Waterloo for!
Code:
[b]Route BAW > WKM > RDG > (PAD > HWY) > BHM > DBY:[/b]
  BAW > WKM	CDS(2)	 4.50	L8 GW	Any permitted
  LDN > BHM	SVR	21.10	4E NC	High Wycombe	Valid WKM > BAN > BHM?
  BHM > DBY	SVR	 9.10	2V CC	Any permitted
     [b]TOTAL:	2R 2S	34.70[/b]

Farewell for now, and many thanks once again! <D
>> Death <<
 

tony_mac

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I think that those are just the restrictions for all tickets with that particular restriction code - and nothing to do with the particular journey - so just ignore any sections that don't apply.

BTW, I make it £32.60 from Blackwater, splitting at Banbury and Coventry
 
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John @ home

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What makes you think that London Terminals - Birmingham Stations route High Wycombe is valid from Waterloo?

More helpful to you may be Super Offpeak Return (OPR) Woking - Birmingham Stations route + High Wycombe, priced at £21.50, or £14.20 with a Railcard.

The restriction code is PU, which means:
National Fares Manual NFM 03 said:
Restriction : PU
JOURNEYS TO/VIA LONDON MARYLEBONE OR PADDINGTON

OUTWARD TRAVEL
MONDAY TO FRIDAY By any train from London Terminals timed to depart from 1100 to 1559, and from 2000.
SATURDAYS AND BANK HOLIDAYS By any train from London Terminals timed to depart from 1100.
SUNDAYS By any train from London Terminals timed to depart from 1100.

RETURN TRAVEL
MONDAY TO FRIDAY By any train except those timed to arrive at London Terminals before 1345.
SATURDAYS AND BANK HOLIDAYS By any train except those timed to arrive at London Terminals before 1345.
SUNDAYS By any train except those timed to arrive at London Terminals before 1345.

There are additional restrictions if travelling via Reading.

This OPR ticket is also available to local stations in the West Midlands at the same price. So you can buy from Woking to Water Orton or Coleshill Parkway, but unfortunately not to Wilnecote or Tamworth.

A similar OPR ticket is available from London suburban rail stations and as far out as Woking (but not Brookwood) or Ascot (but not Bagshot or Martins Heron).

John
 

Broken Viking

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Hail again! <D
Well, I just got around to updating my NFM installation (I'm now running on NFM 03, finally!) and recalculated all of the routes I'd previously done for NFM 02...And are my eyes deceiving me, or have a lot of the fares been reduced? :shock::D

I think that those are just the restrictions for all tickets with that particular restriction code - and nothing to do with the particular journey - so just ignore any sections that don't apply.
I suppose that makes sense, and now that I'm working on current NFM fares, that option is no longer the cheapest one - So I shouldn't have to worry about it now! :D

BTW, I make it £32.60 from Blackwater, splitting at Banbury and Coventry
Until I updated my NFM, I wondered where on Earth ye'd got a fare that low from...But my copy of the NFM gives exactly the same information for that working, so it makes sense to me now. :)
Mind you though, I'm a little surprised at the discovery that NFM 02 is more expensive than 03 for a lot of fares...Is it normal for fares to be lowered as well as raised with each NFM release, or was NFM 02 just "padded out" for the Credit Crunch? 8)

What makes you think that London Terminals - Birmingham Stations route High Wycombe is valid from Waterloo?
The following text that's noted under restriction 4E, as shown when the ticket details are bought up...
NFM 03 said:
Restriction: 4E
Available as listed below MONDAYS-FRIDAYS
(by any train on other days).

OUTWARD TRAVEL
By any train from Marylebone
By any train from Paddington before 0230, and after 0915.
By any train from Waterloo (via Reading) after 0930.
Normally I wouldn't have imagined such a ticket being valid from anywhere other than Marylebone and Euston, and possibly Paddington and St. Pancras too...But the above highlighted text does give the impression that WAT > RDG > BHM is a valid move on the ticket as well, though it is rather ambiguous as to whether passengers still have to travel via High Wycombe in that case! :shock:

More helpful to you may be Super Offpeak Return (OPR) Woking - Birmingham Stations route + High Wycombe, priced at £21.50, or £14.20 with a Railcard.

This OPR ticket is also available to local stations in the West Midlands at the same price. So you can buy from Woking to Water Orton or Coleshill Parkway, but unfortunately not to Wilnecote or Tamworth.

A similar OPR ticket is available from London suburban rail stations and as far out as Woking (but not Brookwood) or Ascot (but not Bagshot or Martins Heron).
Cheers for those ones as well John! I'll look into them next time I feel like firing up the NFM for a session though as I'm completely square-eyed now! :shock:
Addendum: Thanks very much for that one John! Just looked it up out of curiosity, and going FNB > WOK > HWC > BHM > DBY as ye've suggested just knocked the fare down further to £28.20! :shock::D8)

Anyhow...After the mass recalculate for NFM 03, here's what my fares list now looks like. Incidentally, does this look right? Some of the fares seem very low for what I'd come to expect...Not that that's a bad thing! :D
Code:
[b]Fares list output (Sorted by price decending):[/b]
  FNB > Split WAT, STP > DBY:		65.85
  FNB > DBY [Direct ticket +London]	57.40
  FNB > Split WAT, EUS, BHM > DBY:	46.45
  BAW > DBY [Direct ticket Oxford]:	42.00	<<--- Standard direct fare.
  BAW > Split BAN, COV, TAM > DBY:	40.90
  FML > Split WFJ, BHM > DBY:		40.00
  BAW > Split BAN, TAM > DBY:		39.30
  BAW > Split BAN, LMS, COV > DBY:	39.20
  BAW > Split BAN, BHM > DBY:		35.55
  BAW > Split WKM, BHM > DBY:		34.60	Uses HWC routed ticket - Check.
  BAW > Split BAN, COV > DBY:		32.60
  FNB > Split WOK, BHM > DBY:		28.20
Farewell for now, and many thanks once again! <D
>> Death <<
 
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clagmonster

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On a route High Wycombe ticket, you must travel through High Wycombe. The referance to Waterloo in the restriction will be because some tickets with that restriction code will be valid out of Waterloo, but not this one. The route you suggested, going Waterloo-Reading-Paddington-Marylebone would not be valid because you would be leaving the London group and then boubling back to get back in. To do that, you would nead a London-Reading day return as well.
 

blacknight

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The first rule in spliting tickets is that the train you are travelling on must stop at the station where the split tickets join ie Day Return Retford Newark & Cheap Day Return Newark to London then your train must stop at Newark for split ticket to be valid or face prospect of an expensive open single to London.
Likewise if you are doing say Lincoln London on split tickets again you risk a hefty taxi home should you be reliant on making the last service of the day to get you to Lincoln. Like all scheme there are advantages but there can be disadvantages of using split tickets too.
 

A60K

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Likewise if you are doing say Lincoln London on split tickets again you risk a hefty taxi home should you be reliant on making the last service of the day to get you to Lincoln.

As has been said countless times, there is no such rule.


 

tony_mac

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Addendum: Thanks very much for that one John! Just looked it up out of curiosity, and going FNB > WOK > HWC > BHM > DBY as ye've suggested just knocked the fare down further to £28.20!

You just need to be aware that this route is going to add some time onto your journey (an hour or more), and that the timings are very restrictive (e.g. cannot leave London between 3:20pm and 8:00pm on a weekday). I wish I had known about this ticket a week ago!
 
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