The '323 Sound'...

[Chilled Phill]

Hey guys,

Although I have researched this question myself, I'm still a little confused about how this operation works.

If anybody has been on a Cl323, they'll know of the sound I' talking about: the sound this train makes when it de/accelerates.

I know it's something to do with feeding different electrical currents to the AC Traction Motors to make them more efficient, but how did this idea come about? Why don't modern EMUs make a similar; more "extroverted", so to speak, sort of sound? And, of course, how exactly does this system work?

Thanks in advanced. :grin:

Not that I'm complaining, I actually like the noise...it's very unique for a train.

Note: I am aware that other classes in the south are also heard making this noise but I've forgotten the particular clases that do such a noise...

 

[MCR247]

Hey guys,

Although I have researched this question myself, I'm still a little confused about how this operation works.

If anybody has been on a Cl323, they'll know of the sound I' talking about: the sound this train makes when it de/accelerates.

I know it's something to do with feeding different electrical currents to the AC Traction Motors to make them more efficient, but how did this idea come about? Why don't modern EMUs make a similar; more "extroverted", so to speak, sort of sound? And, of course, how exactly does this system work?

Thanks in advanced. :grin:

Not that I'm complaining, I actually like the noise...it's very unique for a train.

Note: I am aware that other classes in the south are also heard making this noise but I've forgotten the particular clases that do such a noise...

Oh yeah simalar to 365s and networkers?

Not sure really

 

[Chilled Phill]

Oh yeah simalar to 365s and networkers?

Not sure really

Yes. I remember watching a video on YouTube by a guy who worked on the Networkers and even recorded the sound it made and labelled each sound as it progressed through it's "gears", so to speak.

 

[MCR247]

I know theres one on youtube about a 365, but it was wrong 'cos he said that it was because of the power notches, and everyone said no, because EMUs only 5 power notches or something :???:

 

[Chilled Phill]

I know theres one on youtube about a 365, but it was wrong 'cos he said that it was because of the power notches, and everyone said no, because EMUs only 5 power notches or something :???:

You're referring to "local stopping" EMUs, not the express EMUs like the 390 and 395?

I know classes that stop locally have a combined power handle, ie the regulator and the train brake are a single lever. Well, a 323 is combined power anyway.

 

[Dennis]

there's a comprehensive explanation of electric traction systems here; GTO thyristor control is the bit of interest

 

[Techniquest]

Gotta admit, that noise is the best bit of 323 travel!

 

[O L Leigh]

These 3-phase units with AC motors have a very different sound to conventional single-phase units with DC motors. I'm not entirely sure what causes this except that it has something to do with the control electronics. It's certainly nothing to do with the power notches on the controller or anything to do with what the driver does.

O L Leigh

 

[mumrar]

Lets not leave out the great sounds you also get from 350 traction too, I fondly remember this from my brief spell on them up to Liverpool

 

[Techniquest]

Oh aye, they make that funky rapid squealing-kinda noise. But the 323s one will always rule supreme in my eyes TBH.

 

[466.networkers]

EMU's only have 4 notches on the TBC, not any other number (unless LU stock is included).

The reason why the 323s and indeed the Networkers make the 'cool' noises is the Gate Turn Off (GTO) Thyristor, which chops the power output from the motor and causes the peculiar noises.

You can find out more here.

 

[P156KWJ]

319s and the networker family make some very interesting noises

 

[yorkie]

319s and the networker family make some very interesting noises

319s sound nothing like 3-phase EMUs.

 

[Pumbaa]

319s sound nothing like 3-phase EMUs.

That's not what he said - he just said they made interesting noises. Which I agree with. As do the 321's and I expect the 320's and 322's.

 

[don24]

The notches in cabs acts like variable resistors. They control the amount of current flowing through the motors. The 'noise' you hear from the motors are indeed GTO thyristors. You always hear some type of syncronous noise with induction motors (AC).

 

[Chilled Phill]

Cheers for the clarification guys...

Although I'm more curious, each of these sounds can be coined as a "gear", no?

I read that a 323 has 17 of these gears but I consistently only count up to 13 before the motors become too quiet and the "notes" because too similar to actually tell beyond this point.

So I guess I wouldn't mind some clarification on this, how many of these "gears" does a 323 actually have?

 

[yorkie]

That's not what he said - he just said they made interesting noises. Which I agree with. As do the 321's and I expect the 320's and 322's.

No, but it was implied as 319s have DC traction motors and sound similar to the 320/321/322s (and others) as you say, so it seems odd to single 319s out then mention a type that are similar to - but exclude - 323s.

I'm not sure how someone can find 319s interesting but not find 323s interesting if they find Networkers (which sound like 323s but not 319s) interesting.

 

[Galvanize]

Networkers IMO sound better than 323s Gotta be the GEC units, make a much better whining sound than the ABB/BREL sets, and if they have their rheostatic/regenerative brakes enabled, they'll make the same great sound when slowing down! I don't like them just silently entering stations

 

[Edvid]

The ABB Networkers are due to be fitted with Hitachi IGBT inverters this year aren't they? I'd be interested to find out how much they'll sound like 395s while (de/ac)celerating.

My personal favourites as far as harmonics are concerned are the joint CAF/Siemens Desiros.

 

[Galvanize]

The ABB Networkers are due to be fitted with Hitachi IGBT inverters this year aren't they? I'd be interested to find out how much they'll sound like 395s while (de/ac)celerating.

465181's already been fitted with the Hitachi gear, but is not authorized for passenger use at present. ABB sets are incredibly crap when pulling away! I saw one at London Bridge attached to a GEC unit, and when they started moving, the ABB set lost power 3 times, but the GEC set kept going! :P

 

[Royston Vasey]

465181's already been fitted with the Hitachi gear, but is not authorized for passenger use at present. ABB sets are incredibly crap when pulling away! I saw one at London Bridge attached to a GEC unit, and when they started moving, the ABB set lost power 3 times, but the GEC set kept going! :P

Why would this have happened, mechanically? Could that be to do with wheel slip protection kicking in on one unit but not another?

 

[37401]

well i live on the cross city line (well not ON it but i live in a town served by it) so ive had a good few yaers hearing that noise and i never get bored of it

 

[Kneedown]

Lets not leave out the great sounds you also get from 350 traction too, I fondly remember this from my brief spell on them up to Liverpool

323's = Frankie Howerd's.
350's = Jimmy Saville's.