The 2024 US presidential election.

[Busaholic]

In contrast, the signs of decay in California, strongly Democratic. I've not been recently to San Francisco but media say it's overrun with (sadly) homeless people.

Watching many videos, SF is overrun with fentanyl like so many West Coast cities, in addition to the original problem place of Philadelphia.

 

[nw1]

Aren't Texas and Florida the USA's 'economic powerhouses'?

And New York down to Washington, LA, Chicago, New England, Silicon Valley, and the Seattle area are not?

Florida by contrast seems to me to be a place firmly in decline. Once a swing state, now a true-red Republican stronghold; it strikes me as somewhere most notable as a location where conservatives go to retire.
Plus of course a governor who I would personally class as homophobic and militantly anti-abortionist. All in all, to me it seems a rather regressive and backwards place.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

So one tabloid article then. Glad we can discount this now.

Just like the New York Post Hunter Biden laptop story ‘eh?

 

[The Ham]

See 'New York Post' of 2 November 2020

Kamala Harris’ ‘equality of outcome’ video slammed as communism pitch​

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2024 ==



Aren't Texas and Florida the USA's 'economic powerhouses'?

Internal migration to the Sun Belt.

Both strongly Republican.

In contrast, the signs of decay in California, strongly Democratic. I've not been recently to San Francisco but media say it's overrun with (sadly) homeless people.

As others have pointed out the US has a very different mindset to the UK, another example is that it's not uncommon for the NHS to be described as Communist in the states, whilst few here would think of it as such.

It comes down to the difference in the definitions:

communism - a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.

socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

The latter allows regulation to be the thing done by the community (which can include governments where they are enacting the will of the people) whilst the former is everything is owned by the community.

Therefore, and in contrast to the headline (which is just in the long tradition of associating anything on the left as the evil communist/Russian and therefore there hatred enemy) what is being discussed in the video isn't communist and is actually probably fairly acceptable to many in the UK and certainly a significant number of people willing to vote Labour, Green and maybe even Lib Dems.

 

[nlogax]

See 'New York Post' of 2 November 2020

Kamala Harris’ ‘equality of outcome’ video slammed as communism pitch​

Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity is an age-old argument and I think her viewpoint was flawed.

To call it 'communism' though... hilarious and mad.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity is an age-old argument and I think her viewpoint was flawed.

To call it 'communism' though... hilarious and mad.

Indeed. There is way too much hyperbole in US politics. Harris is NOT communist and neither is Trump fascist. Hyperbole gone mad.

 

[Busaholic]

Harris is NOT communist and neither is Trump fascist. Hyperbole gone mad.

The fear, which is a very rational one, is that Trump will quickly become one if re-elected.

 

[Bantamzen]

Indeed. There is way too much hyperbole in US politics. Harris is NOT communist and neither is Trump fascist. Hyperbole gone mad.

With regards to Trump, he's worse than a fascist. He is a full on narcissist. He doesn't give two jots about anyone else, he sees the President job as simply a opportunity to enrich himself more and massage his fragile ego. He would throw literally anyone else under the bus to get what he wants, and that includes all his 300,000,000+ other US citizens.

I am just aghast at how people still dance to his tune when it is so obvious that he doesn't care, but will tell you anything you want to hear just to shut you up. If he gets back in come November, I suggest we all light a candle in memory of the United States of America, because united they will no longer be.

 

[AlterEgo]

The fear, which is a very rational one, is that Trump will quickly become one if re-elected.

Trump is not a fascist.

He is something unpleasant and dangerous, but he is not a fascist. Fascists wed the state, industry and military in a way Trump will not, and demand subordination of the self to the state. America is not like that. Fascism cannot, in fact, come to America, but it could invent something just as dangerous as a political philosophy.

Trump's instincts are that war is expensive and unnecessary, that the self, and celebrity, is to exalted, and wishes self-determination for American industrial interests to serve a wealthy upper class, but not the American military, empire, or even the state. He's a small stater.

 

[Bantamzen]

Trump is not a fascist.

He is something unpleasant and dangerous, but he is not a fascist. Fascists wed the state, industry and military in a way Trump will not, and demand subordination of the self to the state. America is not like that. Fascism cannot, in fact, come to America, but it could invent something just as dangerous as a political philosophy.

Trump's instincts are that war is expensive and unnecessary, that the self, and celebrity, is to exalted, and wishes self-determination for American industrial interests to serve a wealthy upper class, but not the American military, empire, or even the state. He's a small stater.

Sorry but nope. Trump serves for one person, and one person only. Donald J Trump.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

With regards to Trump, he's worse than a fascist. He is a full on narcissist. He doesn't give two jots about anyone else, he sees the President job as simply a opportunity to enrich himself more and massage his fragile ego. He would throw literally anyone else under the bus to get what he wants, and that includes all his 300,000,000+ other US citizens.

I am just aghast at how people still dance to his tune when it is so obvious that he doesn't care, but will tell you anything you want to hear just to shut you up. If he gets back in come November, I suggest we all light a candle in memory of the United States of America, because united they will no longer be.

I will agree to disagree.

 

[Bantamzen]

I will agree to disagree.

And I respect you right to do so. Just know, under President Trump that right may one day start to be eroded. I mean just look at the Republican party, despite many dissenting voices prior to the convention, they've all suddenly snapped into line behind their glorious leader.

Donald Trump is rapidly becoming a cult of personality, especially since the evangelicals over there have decided that the bullet aimed at former President Trump was diverted because of divine intervention. This despite the fact that Trump has probably blown it on all ten commandments. Red flags, I means red flags everywhere!! If I believed in heaven and hell, I'd firmly believe that Donald Trump would be the guy in charge of downstairs!! But I don't, I just think Trump is a narcissist. If America wants that as a leader, then go for it. Just don't say we didn't warn you, again!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Actually I disagree with you in a way you may not expect ! You said Trump is becoming a cult or personality- I would argue he already is!!

 

[Bantamzen]

Actually I disagree with you in a way you may not expect ! You said Trump is becoming a cult or personality- I would argue he already is!!

In that case he has increased his cult stock to dangerous levels, i.e. to the point where he sees himself a El Presidente Trump, leader of the Banana States of America!

 

[AlterEgo]

Sorry but nope. Trump serves for one person, and one person only. Donald J Trump.

That is a completely perfect justification of how and why he is not a fascist. If you don’t know what a fascist is please don’t use the word. It’s not helpful.

 

[Bantamzen]

That is a completely perfect justification of how and why he is not a fascist. If you don’t know what a fascist is please don’t use the word. It’s not helpful.

Where did I say he was? Please go back and read my comments.

 

[AlterEgo]

Where did I say he was? Please go back and read my comments.

“Sorry but nope” dismissing the whole post.

 

[Bantamzen]

“Sorry but nope” dismissing the whole post.

Which is why it is a good idea to read everything, not just the opening line. But thank you for demonstrating what is really wrong with politics.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which is why it is a good idea to read everything, not just the opening line.

If you wish to respond to a certain point someone has made, you can selectively quote them and address each point separately. That's quite important if your first line is "sorry but nope" in response to a post which exclusively addresses the thesis that Trump is not a fascist.

But thank you for demonstrating what is really wrong with politics.

Yes, what is wrong is the etiquette around quote-formatting on the forum, sure.

 

[Busaholic]

That is a completely perfect justification of how and why he is not a fascist. If you don’t know what a fascist is please don’t use the word. It’s not helpful.

J D Vance previously said Trump was Hitler. Are you really saying Hitler was not a fascist, or that Vance got that wrong?

 

[AlterEgo]

J D Vance previously said Trump was Hitler. Are you really saying Hitler was not a fascist, or that Vance got that wrong?

Well it can only be one of the two things, so take a guess, if you're bored.

 

[edwin_m]

If America wants that as a leader, then go for it. Just don't say we didn't warn you, again!

This isn't an internal American issue. Ukraine and Taiwan and the wider international community are severely threatened by this outcome, and Xi and Putin are significantly boosted.

 

[philosopher]

In that case he has increased his cult stock to dangerous levels, i.e. to the point where he sees himself a El Presidente Trump, leader of the Banana States of America!

If he wins, I fully expect him to try to remove term limits, amend the constitution in other ways to increase his power, manipulate the media and manipulate elections so that either he or someone closely aligned to him wins the 2028 election. In short the United States I fear will cease to be a liberal democracy if he wins.

 

[Loppylugs]

Still baffling me as to how Trump's would-be assassin, purportedly a member of a gun club, managed to miss the biggest head in America.

 

[Strathclyder]

If he wins, I fully expect him to try to remove term limits, amend the constitution in other ways to increase his power, manipulate the media and manipulate elections so that either he or someone closely aligned to him wins the 2028 election. In short the United States I fear will cease to be a liberal democracy if he wins.

He 'jokingly' said before that he should be allowed to run for a third term if he won a second one in 2020 due to the Russian/Mueller investigation consuming so much of his first. Yeah, anyone who believed him when he said he was joking when he said that likely believed the 'dictator for one day' BS.

 

[Mr. SW]

If he wins, I fully expect him to try to remove term limits, amend the constitution in other ways to increase his power, manipulate the media and manipulate elections so that either he or someone closely aligned to him wins the 2028 election. In short the United States I fear will cease to be a liberal democracy if he wins.

I think there would be a huge resistance to altering the Constitution, even from from Trump's own side.
Americans hold the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution (and its Amendments) in very high regard. Any changes would be extremely difficult.
There would be also huge resistance in other areas, such as forced removal of political opponents and dissenters. Certainly next to impossible.

That said, the slide towards elected Kingship, Autocracy and Isolationism under Trump fills me with great concern but the American people should not allow that to happen. They're much, much better than that.

Also, some Americans need to understand that an elected Head of State/Government represents their country abroad on diplomatic terms, they're not just a leader at home.

And the US will not break up, but there will be strains.

 

[Bayum]

I would beg to differ.

You don't vote someone in just because they were the victim of an attempted assassination. That is completely and utterly irrational.

You vote someone in by assessing their policies and character.

I suspect at least half of Americans would continue to question Trump's policies and character.

Many will not forget the events of January 2021. Many will not forget he is a convicted felon.

Many will not forget that he has an appalling record on civil rights and dubious record on climate change, at a time when half the Northern Hemisphere (not the UK, admittedly) is suffering yet another extreme hot summer.

Many will not forget the conspiracy theories currently being made by some Republicans that this was all at the behest of the Democrats.

Many will be impressed at the Democrats' mature response to the attempted assassination, and the fact that they have suspended electioneering and called for the toning down of inflammatory rhetoric on both sides.

Put it this way, to me, as a non-American, the Democrats seem to be the adults in the building right now.

Is it irrational though? After seeing what happened with the inciting of the riots and the huge push from the far right after Trump lost last time, he’ll now be their golden (orange) boy who took a bullet for them/survived an assassination for America. It will be a huge boon for his voters to rally for him.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It is the optics. Side by side images of a weak and doddery old man struggling up the steps of AF1 versus a defiant just been shot man. Very powerful.

 

[Bantamzen]

This isn't an internal American issue. Ukraine and Taiwan and the wider international community are severely threatened by this outcome, and Xi and Putin are significantly boosted.

Indeed it isn't, but only Americans can vote for their President. We (as in the rest of the world) will just have to watch and hope that they don't choose him.

If he wins, I fully expect him to try to remove term limits, amend the constitution in other ways to increase his power, manipulate the media and manipulate elections so that either he or someone closely aligned to him wins the 2028 election. In short the United States I fear will cease to be a liberal democracy if he wins.

Oh I'm sure he will do everything he can to turn the democratic system into something more akin to the Kim dynasty, after all he's already doing it with the GOP!

Still baffling me as to how Trump's would-be assassin, purportedly a member of a gun club, managed to miss the biggest head in America.

What was more baffling is that there were no "good guys with guns" save the secret service and police. Surely at a Trump rally everyone would be packing right? Just like the January 2021 storming of the Capitol, I mean if ever there was a 2nd Amendment moment it had to be that right? Yet in neither instance did the NRA fans have their weapons, I presume because guns aren't allowed at Trump rallies? It kind of says it all really, Trump wants them all to have guns, expect for when he is about...

 

[The Ham]

It is the optics. Side by side images of a weak and doddery old man struggling up the steps of AF1 versus a defiant just been shot man. Very powerful.

Add in a bit of "God ordained by saving him" to the Trump side too and it's a very powerful message.

The fact that Trump appears to only sell bibles or hold then upsidedown rather than ever reads them didn't appear to matter (when it really should).

Anyone who actually reads their Bible should be cautious about such imaginary:

Mark 13:22 NIVUK
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

(For a bit of background, the elect are those who are faithful to God, not some chosen greater than everyone else group who have great power - actually whilst it is argued that they are selected by God, almost never is it for fame, fortune or power, rather for humility, giving to help others and service).