Thameslink weekend timetable from Bedford question

[smjxm09]

Just a question for you experts. The Thameslink timetable between Bedford and Harpenden only shows two trains an hour running to London on Saturdays. On Sundays that increases to 3 trains an hour as an extra one leaves Luton. As a random rail user I am convinced there used to be at least 4 trains an hour on Saturdays and 4 trains an hour from Sunday lunchtime maybe a couple of years ago. Is my mind playing tricks? Why do more trains run on Sundays than Saturdays? If the service has been reduced will it increase again?

 

[Surreytraveller]

It's all down to the May 2018 timetable change chaos. Although the weekday service has been increased, the weekend service is still running to the emergency timetable

 

[Bedpan]

There are actually 4 trains an hour on Sundays, Two an hour from Luton to Sutton and two an hour down the Brighton Line.

 

[DaveN]

Your memory is correct and Surreytraveller is right. Although before the timetable change, if there were engineering works more or less anywhere (e.g. near Sevenoaks) on Sundays, there would only be 2 Thameslink trains from Bedford an hour and that included pretty much every weekend before the May 2018 shambles.

Thameslink say that there will be more services from the May timetable, and indeed 4tph on both Saturday and Sunday are showing in the timetable data (e.g. on RealTimeTrains) but not confirmed yet.

The reason for more services for Harpenden on Sundays than Saturdays, is that there are 4 slow services an hour on Saturdays (all starting at St Albans like during the week now). On Sunday there are only 2 an hour so they can start from Luton.

 

[smjxm09]

Thanks for the info. I have been looking for answers to this for weeks and could not find the answers on the net so I remembered I was an old member of this group just for the experts that live here.

 

[Bedpan]

Y
The reason for more services for Harpenden on Sundays than Saturdays, is that there are 4 slow services an hour on Saturdays (all starting at St Albans like during the week now). On Sunday there are only 2 an hour so they can start from Luton.

I would have thought though that they ought to be able to run a half hourly Luton to St Albans via Sutton service on a Saturday like they always used to. I asked more or less the same question on the "Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018" thread and the answer you gave on that one (see post 5863) was more enlightening and one that I could well understand - but perhaps the two explanations go hand in hand.

 

[smjxm09]

The thing is under the franchise agreement they are still breaching it after 7 months

The agreement:

"Between and including the Early and Late Services 50 services shall be provided at 15 minute intervals from Bedford to London Blackfriars, calling at the stations in paragraph 1.1. After 18:00 intervals of 20 minutes may be permitted. Two services per hour at 30 minute intervals shall call additionally at West Hampstead Thameslink."

So how are they getting away with it?

 

[Surreytraveller]

They will be getting away with it because there is an agreement with the Department for Transport which supercedes the franchise agreement. This is because half the issues are the DfT's fault .

 

[DaveN]

I think I got it wrong in the "Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018" thread. They are running 4 tph between St Albans and the loop on Saturdays. As well as the 2tph Bedford -> Gatwick via Redhill, the other Saturday services missing from what was originally consulted on, are the Luton->Rainham semi-fast services. So presumably the problem is that they don't have enough drivers for those. Note that the Luton->Rainham ones are not on RealTimeTrains for after the next timetable. There were no Sunday Luton->Rainham planned, so that's why the all stations start from Luton (I presume).
One thing that GTR have tried to avoid, is adding temporary services or parts of services and then removing them when they go to the "final" plan.

 

[JonathanH]

On Saturdays, Luton to Rainham is shown as not running north of Kentish Town. Kentish Town to Orpington is not shown as running.

 

[Bedpan]

I think I got it wrong in the "Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018" thread. They are running 4 tph between St Albans and the loop on Saturdays. As well as the 2tph Bedford -> Gatwick via Redhill, the other Saturday services missing from what was originally consulted on, are the Luton->Rainham semi-fast services. So presumably the problem is that they don't have enough drivers for those. Note that the Luton->Rainham ones are not on RealTimeTrains for after the next timetable. There were no Sunday Luton->Rainham planned, so that's why the all stations start from Luton (I presume).
One thing that GTR have tried to avoid, is adding temporary services or parts of services and then removing them when they go to the "final" plan.

Well, DaveN, I do find all of your explanations to be plausible and rational so that you for explaining - it does stop me grumbling away to myself about "Why can't they do this....or that".

Looking at the departure boards today (for Sutton in particular) it appears that they actually rub Luton to Blackfriars on Sundays rather than St Albans to St Albans for the rest of the week. They are shown as two setarate services (Blackfriars to Sutton via Hackbridge and Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon, but they both arrive at Sutton within a minute of each other, and if both trains turn round and go back when they reach Sutton, they only have two or three minutes to do so. (From my point of view - if only the Sunday service could become the Saturday service - or indeed the service pattern all week. But then I wouldn't be saying that if I lived in Elstree and regularly travelled to Mitcham).

 

[Surreytraveller]

Well, DaveN, I do find all of your explanations to be plausible and rational so that you for explaining - it does stop me grumbling away to myself about "Why can't they do this....or that".

Looking at the departure boards today (for Sutton in particular) it appears that they actually rub Luton to Blackfriars on Sundays rather than St Albans to St Albans for the rest of the week. They are shown as two setarate services (Blackfriars to Sutton via Hackbridge and Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon, but they both arrive at Sutton within a minute of each other, and if both trains turn round and go back when they reach Sutton, they only have two or three minutes to do so. (From my point of view - if only the Sunday service could become the Saturday service - or indeed the service pattern all week. But then I wouldn't be saying that if I lived in Elstree and regularly travelled to Mitcham).

They don't turn around when they get to Sutton - the services are on a loop, so the driver stays where they are and the train keeps going

 

[Bedpan]

They don't turn around when they get to Sutton - the services are on a loop, so the driver stays where they are and the train keeps going

I suspected that this is the case but the departure boards and even Real Time Trains show them as terminating at Sutton. There again, the same thing happens during the week. Don't know why, you would have thought that like round the Kingston Loop, the destination would be progressively moved forwards.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I suspected that this is the case but the departure boards and even Real Time Trains show them as terminating at Sutton. There again, the same thing happens during the week. Don't know why, you would have thought that like round the Kingston Loop, the destination would be progressively moved forwards.

The headcode changes. I don't know whether the train technically terminates, but it continues in the direction its pointing. So, during the week, a train starts at St Albans, goes to Sutton via Wimbledon then back to St Albans via Mitcham Junction. And obviously you get a train 15 minutes later going the other way round the loop.
On a Sunday, they go Luton - Wimbledon - Sutton - Blackfriars, and Blackfriars - Sutton - Wimbledon - Luton