Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[Failed Unit]

A few interesting stopping patterns this evening. It seems that several Moorgate-Welwyn services are cancelled.
Some Kings Cross - Cambridge stoppers calling additionally at New Southgate, Oakleigh Park and New Barnet.
So did the 17:12 Ely fast service !

So this would have then run fast from New Barnet to Ashwell & Morden !

I was expecting this to be the “don’t maintain the class 313” policy biting them. But they are short of staff again.

Some big gaps in service on the city branch.

 

[jon0844]

Seems to be a shortage (or late running) of train crew, plus a traction fault on a 313 causing problems on the loop.

Does seem a lot of stop orders being put on to fill gaps.

I was expecting this to be the “don’t maintain the class 313” policy biting them. But they are short of staff again.

Some big gaps in service on the city branch.

Seems to be both.

 

[Failed Unit]

I see the 12 car is out and about again this evening. I wonder if this is why the 0532 WGC - Kings cross was cancelled this morning, don’t think the WGC sidings can take a 12 car.

 

[tsr]

I see the 12 car is out and about again this evening. I wonder if this is why the 0532 WGC - Kings cross was cancelled this morning, don’t think the WGC sidings can take a 12 car.

There was a 12v8 which caused problems. A plan was put in place (in good time) to put an 8 coach 700 back on the stock diagram (circuit) in time for the 0532 mentioned, but for whatever reason it doesn't look like it happened.

 

[Failed Unit]

There was a 12v8 which caused problems. A plan was put in place (in good time) to put an 8 coach 700 back on the stock diagram (circuit) in time for the 0532 mentioned, but for whatever reason it doesn't look like it happened.

I noticed last night the 12 car increased the dwell time. Not sure if the driver needed to do anything different but the doors took longer to open. With people moving forward from the rear 4 again it took longer to get people off.

That said on the 1721 London - Cambridge it didn’t arrive a WGC much later than normal. We just were not following a 313 on caution from potters bar and ran at line speed.

 

[samuelmorris]

The Brighton 313s have never been as good. Most of the PEP fleets have an MTIN around 10000-15000 miles. The 314s have always been the worst. Given they only do 300-400 miles per day, we're talking roughly one fault per unit per month. That's any delay of three minutes or more; not every fault is train cancelled and unit out of service. Strangely the Shenfield 315s are much better than the Chingford/Enfield units, despite them being maintained at the same depot and having similar duties.

Off-topic but I believe that's due to 4-car operation meaning that somewhat-broken cabs can't be concealed in the middle of two units.

 

[Bikeman78]

Don’t disagree. Things are worse since control moved to 3 bridges.

It is very common for a service to skip stops. But follow an all stations service all the way.

In my WGC - Moorgate service it is possible that control don’t understand the track layouts. The WGC - London needed to go to vacate the platform. I doubt the signaller would be keen to put a 75mph 313 service on the fast mainline in the rush hour. The plan would never work. Likewise the Cambridge - Three bridges. I don’t think it can pass stopping services until Stevenage so again a plan unlikely to work unless you hold the stopping service at Cambridge.

It's not as ridiculous as it sounds. A few years ago a pair of 313s turned out on one of the Royston to King's Cross peak trains and kept time throughout. I can't remember the exact stopping pattern but it was non stop from Stevenage or Welwyn North to King's Cross.

 

[Class315]

Yes
More a problem of trains blacking level crossings. Particularly foxton as it would block the second Main route between Royston and Cambridge

Also, their are no 'ALL' stop markers on the down platforms at Shepreth and Foxton which is the main cause of the FLU's running fast between Royston and Cambridge, a test train has been booked to run towards the end of this month.

Prior to the timetable changing last year, the 17:48 Welwyn GC - London King's Cross was a booked double 313 and used to call Hatfield, Potters Bar & Finsbury Park - was booked on the UP Fast until Holloway Junction.

 

[philjo]

It is very common for a service to skip stops. But follow an all stations service all the way.

In my WGC - Moorgate service it is possible that control don’t understand the track layouts. The WGC - London needed to go to vacate the platform. I doubt the signaller would be keen to put a 75mph 313 service on the fast mainline in the rush hour. The plan would never work. Likewise the Cambridge - Three bridges. I don’t think it can pass stopping services until Stevenage so again a plan unlikely to work unless you hold the stopping service at Cambridge.

The platforms at Royston are bi-directional so trains can pass through on either line.

I have been on a semi-fast a couple of weeks ago that left Cambridge after the stopper. I think this was late arrival of the incoming service at Cambridge. The stopper was then held in platform 1 at Royston - the semi-fast was then routed via platform 2 so left Royston first. Obviously this can only happen if there are no northbound services due.
Similarly it has sometimes happened northbound. Though I recall some chaos one morning when the stopper was routed into Platform 1 at Royston without much notice (I think the semi-fast was late so was terminating at Royston that day) so all passengers going to Cambridge (at peak school times) had to rush over the footbridge !


The displays in the 700 on my train to Cambridge this morning seemed to be showing random information. The one in front of me said the destination was Bedford, next stop Purley for the whole journey. Similarly the screen behind me said Letchworth Garden City.
The announcements were correct.

 

[OwenB]

Same again tonight on the Moorgate line..

#GNUpdates - Due to availability of train crew between Moorgate and Finsbury Park fewer trains are able to run on all lines. Services running to and from these stations will be cancelled or revised.

More information to follow.

 

[MikeWM]

Superb service tonight

2305 Cambridge to Kings Lynn (ex-Kings Cross) cancelled at Cambridge due to waiting for driver ar KGX.

Next - last - train north from Cambridge is over an hour later, at 0013, and suddenly decided that’s only going as far as Ely, bus onto KLN. Why? Who knows.

 

[MikeWM]

Lovely bit of chaos at Cambridge as the late 2305 arrives. Cambridge has this announced as going back to KGX, but no-one tells people already on the train hoping to go north. So for about five minutes, lots of dispute between passengers about where it is going. Zero staff around to answer questions...

Eventually an announcement is made, fed-up passengers get off, and the train departs for KGX, though it still says Kings Lynn on all the exterior displays as it goes off in the exact opposite directon (!)

Apparently the last one is terminating at Ely due to ‘emergency engineering works’. Anyone know if this is real or another case of ‘GN’ engineering works, ie. a lie?

Either way, anyone expecting to get the 2204 off KGX to get to KLN before midnight is now going to be lucky to get there before 0230. Good work GN...

 

[37047]

Lovely bit of chaos at Cambridge as the late 2305 arrives. Cambridge has this announced as going back to KGX, but no-one tells people already on the train hoping to go north. So for about five minutes, lots of dispute between passengers about where it is going. Zero staff around to answer questions...

Eventually an announcement is made, fed-up passengers get off, and the train departs for KGX, though it still says Kings Lynn on all the exterior displays as it goes off in the exact opposite directon (!)

Apparently the last one is terminating at Ely due to ‘emergency engineering works’. Anyone know if this is real or another case of ‘GN’ engineering works, ie. a lie?

Either way, anyone expecting to get the 2204 off KGX to get to KLN before midnight is now going to be lucky to get there before 0230. Good work GN...

Cancellations and short formations at KLN this morning due to those units being out-of-place. Emergency track maintenance according to the driver of the 0610 KLN-KGX.

 

[MikeWM]

Cancellations and short formations at KLN this morning due to those units being out-of-place. Emergency track maintenance according to the driver of the 0610 KLN-KGX.

They got their stories straight then Still not entirely convinced I believe them though. given their recent record...

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I've noticed in the timetable early on Saturday morning some buses calling at the smallers stations towards Horsham. However it seems the travel planners don't seem to know about them and basically tell you to go earlier to the station to get a train north to crawley, then wait for a train back to horsham. Does anyone know if these buses actually exist, or should I follow the travel planners advice.

 

[Failed Unit]

The past few weeks seem to be much worse. Combination of infrastructures failures, train failures (both 700s and 313s) and staff shortages

Feels like Spring 2018 again.

The 12 car set is covering an 8 car again this evening. One day the timetable will
Work.

Some big gaps today at stations such as Knebworth. The 700s really are not an improvement by any measure.

Cancellations to services between Cambridge and London Kings Cross
Following a number of incidents earlier today between Cambridge and London Kings Cross the line is now open.
Impact:
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 14:00 26/02.
Customer Advice:
Please allow extra time for your journey this morning.
To aid you on your journey, your tickets will be valid at no additional cost to yourself.
- Metroline Buses between Potters Bar and St Albans City on route 84
- Arriva Buses on routes 100, 101. 300, 301
- London Underground services between Kings Cross / Moorgate / Finsbury Park
- Mutual Thameslink and Great Northern
How is this currently affecting the train service?
Due to train faults, services has been hampered and this has created some service gaps on route. Our operations team are working towards enabling as reliable a service as possible
For services heading into London, we advise taking a northbound service to then circulate back towards London.
Where possible we will add additional stops on services, but we are limited in the number of services this can be done on, to prevent congestion building up in the inner London area due to trains arriving late.
Can you tell me more about the incident?
Some of our units have developed some faults, which have caused service disruption on route:
- The 0742 Kings Lynn to Kings Cross service had a brake fault, and has been taken out of service
- The 0944 Cambridge North to Kings Cross developed a door release fault, and this unit has been taken out of service
- The 0854 Cambridge to Brighton service was also having issues releasing doors, which have been resolved.
- The 0743 Gatwick to Peterborough, needed to be rebooted, causing it to be delayed, and creating some congestion behind it at Finsbury Park.
When a train fault occurs, the driver will contact our train technicians and will be guided through a 10 minute repair process. If they are unable to fix the fault, the train will be terminated and taken out of passenger service and returned to the depot for full safety investigation and repairs. This is likely to have an immediate knock on effect, particularly in busy locations across our network, as well as on later services in the day.
We thank you for your patience during this time and we apologise for any inconvenience this may cause to your journey today.

 

[sprunt]

Another grim evening in Moorgate - signal failures this time, so no blame on GTR for this one, but still, sigh. The underground lines to King's Cross are suffering with signal failures too, so a fun evening getting home from that bit of the city tonight.

 

[OwenB]

Another grim evening in Moorgate - signal failures this time, so no blame on GTR for this one, but still, sigh. The underground lines to King's Cross are suffering with signal failures too, so a fun evening getting home from that bit of the city tonight.

Northern Line was thankfully okay. But yes, another poor night on the Moorgate line, more misses than hits over the last week or so. Really poor combination of infrastructure last night and staffing issues last week has meant a miserable commute home.

 

[jon0844]

The past few weeks seem to be much worse. Combination of infrastructures failures, train failures (both 700s and 313s) and staff shortages

Feels like Spring 2018 again.

The 12 car set is covering an 8 car again this evening. One day the timetable will
Work.

Some big gaps today at stations such as Knebworth. The 700s really are not an improvement by any measure.

Knebworth and Letchworth are getting more trains stopping from May, along with the full weekend timetable as originally planned. Timings apparently going into planners now. Anyone seen the data yet?

 

[OwenB]

Knebworth and Letchworth are getting more trains stopping from May, along with the full weekend timetable as originally planned. Timings apparently going into planners now. Anyone seen the data yet?

Is the reinstatement of the weekend timetable guaranteed for May? Or do we think that they'll be able to renege on it. Again.

 

[Failed Unit]

Knebworth and Letchworth are getting more trains stopping from May, along with the full weekend timetable as originally planned. Timings apparently going into planners now. Anyone seen the data yet?

Knebworth? It already has one of the best frequencies on the line.

See it in real-time with respect to to weekend services. Hourly London - Royston service added on Saturday. Gives stations south of Royston pre May 2018 service levels.

 

[jon0844]

Is the reinstatement of the weekend timetable guaranteed for May? Or do we think that they'll be able to renege on it. Again.

Yes, the services are being entered to show up on route planners now. There would be hell to pay if they weren't reinstated 12 months after the new timetable.

But as I've said before, the operating of 4 trains per hour to Moorgate will almost certainly increase the risk of delays to that of a weekday service. Although the upside is that if one train is cancelled, there won't be as long to wait for the next one as before.

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes, the services are being entered to show up on route planners now. There would be hell to pay if they weren't reinstated 12 months after the new timetable.

But as I've said before, the operating of 4 trains per hour to Moorgate will almost certainly increase the risk of delays to that of a weekday service. Although the upside is that if one train is cancelled, there won't be as long to wait for the next one as before.

Don’t think 4tph to Moorgate is committed in May at weekends.

 

[OwenB]

Don’t think 4tph to Moorgate is committed in May at weekends.

Actually, I don't think the Saturday service will be that bad once the King's Cross services from WGC/HAT go back up to 2ph, that's probably adequate. The real issue I have at the moment is getting anywhere north of WGC, e.g. Stevenage.

 

[jon0844]

Don’t think 4tph to Moorgate is committed in May at weekends.

180 more trains on Saturday. 100 on Sunday (not that Sunday gets 4tph).

 

[387star]

Cambridge and Peterborough services through the core on weekends from the may change or not?

 

[387star]

Edit seems Cambridge getting weekend core services but not Peterborough

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Midland Main line ? - 2 tph Bedford - when it runs , even at 12 cars , struggles.

Full and standing. (often)

 

[387star]

I guess it is still a transitional timetable. Presumably whoever drives the Rainham services at the southern end sign Kentish Town and not Luton?

Is there demand for Rainham services to run to Luton at the weekend (e.g. demand for 6tph on the slow line north of Kentish Town)?

The weekend consultation was Luton to Rainham on Monday to Saturday - Kentish Town on Sundays. As you note, there should be Kentish Town to Orpington via Catford Loop as well at the weekend which as yet haven't run and don't look like starting in May.

Rainham from Kentish looks to be doubled to the weekday frequency on weekends from the may change
Bedford to Gatwick running on weekends too

 

[Ianno87]

Edit seems Cambridge getting weekend core services but not Peterborough

It is something of a relief to get a proper Saturday timetable again for Cambridge.