Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[Failed Unit]

It's going wrong now. Major points problem at Cambridge means delays and some cancellations, and when you're running one train an hour at some stations - that's a big deal.

Yep, a massive gap in the service - No trains to Welwyn North, Knebworth and the stations between Royston and Cambridge between 2051 and 2351. (The 2151 was cancelled and the 2251 doesn't run anyway at weekends). Before people say stuff breaks - yes I know it does. But when you already have an extremely infrequent service it is more noticable when stuff breaks....

 

[jon0844]

There were stop orders put on trains and taxis to serve Welwyn North and Knebworth, with people told to get to WGC either on a stopper or one of the 1Cxx trains that made extra stops.

Passengers could also go fast to WGC and go back to Hatfield or Potters Bar on the stopper, or up to Stevenage and back for Knebworth or Welwyn North.

With trapped trains and crew, I think control did what it needed to do.

 

[Failed Unit]

There were stop orders put on trains and taxis to serve Welwyn North and Knebworth, with people told to get to WGC either on a stopper or one of the 1Cxx trains that made extra stops.

Passengers could also go fast to WGC and go back to Hatfield or Potters Bar on the stopper, or up to Stevenage and back for Knebworth or Welwyn North.

With trapped trains and crew, I think control did what it needed to do.

I don’t think we will ever agree on that. They could have stopped at all stations with the big gap without too much impact.

By the time you had messed around with taxi’s you may as well have waited in London.

GTR could have done much better. But they have no incentive to do so. They get paid the same no matter how badly they treat us.

 

[387star]

Wow the underpass at finsbury park is finally open although not in the most complete looking state

Think it was mentioned lifts to the national rail platforms will be fitted out eventually

The station could do with an Overground style refurb. One running on blard on platform eight is so faded it is just white whilst there are still fcc urban light faced vinyls in the passageways

 

[Failed Unit]

Taken from a Thameslink consultantation document that is covering the state of the service.

In particular there are high rates of infrastructure on the Brighton Main Line and too many decisions made in control (eg on Skip Stopping) seem not to take passenger impact into account ~ in particular I don’t think there is enough focus on capacity.

Hopefully the first step to solving a problem- admitting they have one.

An example this morning.
0651 Kings Cross - Cambridge left Finsbury Park 10 minutes down. Control decided it must skip all stops to Stevenage. Arriving 3 minutes early. GTR are great.

Except what control don’t consider is that train has a significant flow of passengers going north commuters to Hatfield, WGC and Stevenage. The former 2 were ok. But the significant flow to Stevenage shafted.

It is this kind of example where control skips stations without any consideration of the passenger flows that grates us suffering users. Had they stopped it it would have left WGC 8 down. Caught up some time by Stevenage and probably still arrived at Cambridge on time.

Hopefully GTR will begin to consider passenger flows rather than we must skip stops. Who cares about are passengers. “We get paid the same if the train is empty it is DFT that loses the revenue- we are untouchable. “

 

[samuelmorris]

Taken from a Thameslink consultantation document that is covering the state of the service.



Hopefully the first step to solving a problem- admitting they have one.

An example this morning.
0651 Kings Cross - Cambridge left Finsbury Park 10 minutes down. Control decided it must skip all stops to Stevenage. Arriving 3 minutes early. GTR are great.

Except what control don’t consider is that train has a significant flow of passengers going north commuters to Hatfield, WGC and Stevenage. The former 2 were ok. But the significant flow to Stevenage shafted.

It is this kind of example where control skips stations without any consideration of the passenger flows that grates us suffering users. Had they stopped it it would have left WGC 8 down. Caught up some time by Stevenage and probably still arrived at Cambridge on time.

Hopefully GTR will begin to consider passenger flows rather than we must skip stops. Who cares about are passengers. “We get paid the same if the train is empty it is DFT that loses the revenue- we are untouchable. “

It's not solely a passenger consideration - if cancellations cause overcrowding, it increases dwell times and undoes their work on reducing the delay through delaying subsequent services. Even just playing a numbers game and ignoring passenger comfort it's still wrong if overdone.

 

[Aictos]

Wow the underpass at finsbury park is finally open although not in the most complete looking state

Think it was mentioned lifts to the national rail platforms will be fitted out eventually

The station could do with an Overground style refurb. One running on blard on platform eight is so faded it is just white whilst there are still fcc urban light faced vinyls in the passageways

I'm sorry, they're opened the underpass at Finsbury Park? Surely there was always one there as it got refurbished by First Capital Connect along with Hitchin, Hertford North etc...

 

[notverydeep]

I'm sorry, they're opened the underpass at Finsbury Park? Surely there was always one there as it got refurbished by First Capital Connect along with Hitchin, Hertford North etc...

This is a 'new' second underpass at street level, which will link the new lifts between street level and both LU platforms (just opened) and the NR platforms (may not be open yet). This new street level underpass is slightly below the level of the 'normal' underpass, the one you are referring to - and isn't really new, the passage way forming it was there already, but not part of the station accessible to the public; the extra lifts are new of course.

The two underpasses are linked by previously existing stairs at the Station Place end, where until recently you had no option but to turn right and ascend. The lift that already accessed the platform 1 and 2 Island is just to the right of this set of stairs. As you enter the station at this point the wall in front of you is now opened up to the new passageway. I hope this is a clear description! I presume it will be connected to the Wells Terrace entrance when the development completes on that side of the station...

 

[Aictos]

This is a 'new' second underpass at street level, which will link the new lifts between street level and both LU platforms (just opened) and the NR platforms (may not be open yet). This new street level underpass is slightly below the level of the 'normal' underpass, the one you are referring to - and isn't really new, the passage way forming it was there already, but not part of the station accessible to the public; the extra lifts are new of course.

The two underpasses are linked by previously existing stairs at the Station Place end, where until recently you had no option but to turn right and ascend. The lift that already accessed the platform 1 and 2 Island is just to the right of this set of stairs. As you enter the station at this point the wall in front of you is now opened up to the new passageway. I hope this is a clear description! I presume it will be connected to the Wells Terrace entrance when the development completes on that side of the station...

Ahh, okay thanks for clarifying that as I didn't know they had come close to completing any such work as the last time I remember Finsbury Park was just having the contractors doing the measuring up with work on that disused platform to the west of Platform 8 and that was some time ago!

I know they were on about providing lift access to the other platforms but had no idea how far it actually got so cheers for the heads up

 

[Fred26]

This is a 'new' second underpass at street level, which will link the new lifts between street level and both LU platforms (just opened) and the NR platforms (may not be open yet). This new street level underpass is slightly below the level of the 'normal' underpass, the one you are referring to - and isn't really new, the passage way forming it was there already, but not part of the station accessible to the public; the extra lifts are new of course.

The two underpasses are linked by previously existing stairs at the Station Place end, where until recently you had no option but to turn right and ascend. The lift that already accessed the platform 1 and 2 Island is just to the right of this set of stairs. As you enter the station at this point the wall in front of you is now opened up to the new passageway. I hope this is a clear description! I presume it will be connected to the Wells Terrace entrance when the development completes on that side of the station...

Yeah it was a disused passageway taken out of use a long time ago. I had a chance to see it before work started, it wasn't particularly interesting, but there was some old tiling down there, I reckon circa WWII.

 

[infobleep]

Yeah it was a disused passageway taken out of use a long time ago. I had a chance to see it before work started, it wasn't particularly interesting, but there was some old tiling down there, I reckon circa WWII.

Wow. How fascinating.

 

[Aictos]

Wow. How fascinating.

Seconded!!!

 

[Bikeman78]

Taken from a Thameslink consultantation document that is covering the state of the service.



Hopefully the first step to solving a problem- admitting they have one.

An example this morning.
0651 Kings Cross - Cambridge left Finsbury Park 10 minutes down. Control decided it must skip all stops to Stevenage. Arriving 3 minutes early. GTR are great.
“

I don't know where to begin! Firstly, 24 minutes non stop from Finsbury Park to Stevenage? Did it run slow line all the way? A 317 can do King's Cross to Stevenage in 21 minutes. Secondly, I agree, the timings are so slack that it would easily have made up five minutes by Stevenage. The best bit is that they held it for 10 minutes on the Hitchin flyover for 1T08 to overtake so it was 10 late from Letchworth anyway.

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't know where to begin! Firstly, 24 minutes non stop from Finsbury Park to Stevenage? Did it run slow line all the way? A 317 can do King's Cross to Stevenage in 21 minutes. Secondly, I agree, the timings are so slack that it would easily have made up five minutes by Stevenage. The best bit is that they held it for 10 minutes on the Hitchin flyover for 1T08 to overtake so it was 10 late from Letchworth anyway.

I think this is what irritates everyone about their skip stop policy. The apologist keep telling us it is for the greater good. As this example (and many others show) it made no difference to the trains ultimate arrival time but inconvenienced lots of passengers. Not that GTR care about that.

 

[westcoaster]

I think this is what irritates everyone about their skip stop policy. The apologist keep telling us it is for the greater good. As this example (and many others show) it made no difference to the trains ultimate arrival time but inconvenienced lots of passengers. Not that GTR care about that.

One thing i have noted on the horsham trains heading to peterborough, is if the train is running late north bound and has the same driver booked to take it back south again. A spare driver is now sent out to drive the train back to huntingdon. This can give a quick turnaround of a couple of minutes instead of the 10 minimum allowed, this also stops skip stopping.

 

[Aictos]

One thing i have noted on the horsham trains heading to peterborough, is if the train is running late north bound and has the same driver booked to take it back south again. A spare driver is now sent out to drive the train back to huntingdon. This can give a quick turnaround of a couple of minutes instead of the 10 minimum allowed, this also stops skip stopping.

So the original driver travels pass to Huntingdon on that service and takes over at Huntingdon instead with the spare driver getting the next service back to Peterborough?

 

[westcoaster]

So the original driver travels pass to Huntingdon on that service and takes over at Huntingdon instead with the spare driver getting the next service back to Peterborough?

Correct. A simple sollution to cut turnaround delays.

 

[notverydeep]

Ahh, okay thanks for clarifying that as I didn't know they had come close to completing any such work as the last time I remember Finsbury Park was just having the contractors doing the measuring up with work on that disused platform to the west of Platform 8 and that was some time ago!

I know they were on about providing lift access to the other platforms but had no idea how far it actually got so cheers for the heads up

I had a look around in the 10 minutes between changing trains this morning. I can see that as well as the two lifts down to the LU platforms and the existing lift up to platforms 1 and 2 already working, a lift up to National Rail platforms 5 and 6 is close to being ready (although still behind hoardings in the passageway). However there doesn't seem to be any sign of works to bring a lift up to platforms 7 and 8. This strikes me as odd, because platform 5 is the northbound / down fast and platform 6 is the other side of the northbound / down slow 1 track served by platform 7, and is effectively out of use, (as is platform 3 on the other side of the southbound / up slow 1 track from platform 2).

What this means is that so far, a lift is being provided for the northbound / down fast, which is used only rarely and not for the key northbound platforms 7 and 8 (down slows 1 and 2) used by almost all the northbound / down trains scheduled to stop. Additionally platform 4, the southbound / up fast also has no apparent works to provide a lift. Does anybody know if lifts to these 'islands' are a later phase of the project, or if the step free access to and from the National Rail platforms will only be partial?

A related question, does anyone know why do platforms 3 and 6 have passenger information systems left in place, despite the doors only opening on the other side of trains stopping alongside?

 

[Fred26]

I had a look around in the 10 minutes between changing trains this morning. I can see that as well as the two lifts down to the LU platforms and the existing lift up to platforms 1 and 2 already working, a lift up to National Rail platforms 5 and 6 is close to being ready (although still behind hoardings in the passageway). However there doesn't seem to be any sign of works to bring a lift up to platforms 7 and 8. This strikes me as odd, because platform 5 is the northbound / down fast and platform 6 is the other side of the northbound / down slow 1 track served by platform 7, and is effectively out of use, (as is platform 3 on the other side of the southbound / up slow 1 track from platform 2).

What this means is that so far, a lift is being provided for the northbound / down fast, which is used only rarely and not for the key northbound platforms 7 and 8 (down slows 1 and 2) used by almost all the northbound / down trains scheduled to stop. Additionally platform 4, the southbound / up fast also has no apparent works to provide a lift. Does anybody know if lifts to these 'islands' are a later phase of the project, or if the step free access to and from the National Rail platforms will only be partial?

A related question, does anyone know why do platforms 3 and 6 have passenger information systems left in place, despite the doors only opening on the other side of trains stopping alongside?

As far as I know lifts are planned from all platforms. I find it truly bizarre that they opted for platform 5/6 first, but there must be some sort of logic. It also seems to have taken a very long time to get to this stage and that lift still isn't open.
Frankly, I'd close and fence off platforms 3 and 6, probably with emergency gates just in case. I'd then rebuild the old Northern Heights platform, close and fence off platform 8, and renumber the lot - 1&2 up slow lines; 3 up fast; 4 down fast; 5, 6 & 7 down slow. Leaving the new 6&7 for the use of NCL trains, apart from exceptional circumstances.

 

[bramling]

Correct. A simple sollution to cut turnaround delays.

I wouldn’t call it a solution; more like a rather desperate attempt at firefighting - and of course one which relies on spares being readily available, which means it likely won’t be able to be used at the times when needed most.

 

[387star]

Are the 700 first class seats fainsas? Not actually too uncomfortable with a decent sink in the base

 

[samuelmorris]

I wouldn’t call it a solution; more like a rather desparate attempt at firefighting - and of course one which relies on spares being readily available, which means it likely won’t be able to be used at the times when needed most.

To be fair, if they can manage it reliably, then I think it's a good solution. The big question is if, this is GTR after all

 

[sprunt]

A broken down train between Moorgate and Finsbury Park has caused some disruption this afternoon, with the end result being a 45 minute gap in trains that call at Hornsey. I'm sure there's a good reason why the only trains to have been cancelled in this period are those ones, but it doesn't seem very clever. It may be that there's no other way the planners on the ground could have handled it, but it seems to point to a weakness in the timetable.

 

[OwenB]

A broken down train between Moorgate and Finsbury Park has caused some disruption this afternoon, with the end result being a 45 minute gap in trains that call at Hornsey. I'm sure there's a good reason why the only trains to have been cancelled in this period are those ones, but it doesn't seem very clever. It may be that there's no other way the planners on the ground could have handled it, but it seems to point to a weakness in the timetable.

View attachment 58594

Weakness in those old trains..

 

[bramling]

Are the 700 first class seats fainsas? Not actually too uncomfortable with a decent sink in the base

It’s a shame the whole train wasn’t done out like the first class, perhaps without the armrests. With a bit of separation to stop sound carrying through the train and a bit less plastic the interior wouldn’t have been too bad then. Having said that they’re still not wonderful for very long journeys, but adequate for something like Bedford to Brighton.

 

[samuelmorris]

It’s a shame the whole train wasn’t done out like the first class, perhaps without the armrests. With a bit of separation to stop sound carrying through the train and a bit less plastic the interior wouldn’t have been too bad then. Having said that they’re still not wonderful for very long journeys, but adequate for something like Bedford to Brighton.

Weren't 700 first class seats supposed to be the same as the much-maligned 800 standard seats? I still find them rather firm but I haven't done first in a 700 since last Spring so I can't compare too accurately.

 

[Failed Unit]

Weakness in those old trains..

Which are still more reliable than the 700s

 

[Bald Rick]

Weren't 700 first class seats supposed to be the same as the much-maligned 800 standard seats? I still find them rather firm but I haven't done first in a 700 since last Spring so I can't compare too accurately.

I think the 700 first seats are the same as the 800 standard. Not 100% though, but they look and feel similar.

 

[bramling]

I think the 700 first seats are the same as the 800 standard. Not 100% though, but they look and feel similar.

Not sure if the cushions are the same but I think the seat frames are.

I wouldn’t say they’re wonderful, I still find them over hard and over upright for my liking, but I don’t get into them and straight away think “this is awful”, and I don’t see others doing same either - unlike the standard seats in both the 700s and 387s. I wouldn’t like to do London to Penzance in one though!

 

[Bald Rick]

Not sure if the cushions are the same but I think the seat frames are.

I wouldn’t say they’re wonderful, I still find them over hard and over upright for my liking, but I don’t get into them and straight away think “this is awful”, and I don’t see others doing same either - unlike the standard seats in both the 700s and 387s. I wouldn’t like to do London to Penzance in one though!

The 800s are perhaps a bit more upright. However I find them perfectly comfortable (as with the 700s both classes)