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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

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samuelmorris

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Mmm, I do agree with a lot of your criticisms of GTR but frankly I think this one is a bit petty. The announcement not only achieves its goal of enunciating the notice, but it's also temporary, it's not as if it'll be there forever. The fact that it isn't in the usual voice may also help draw attention to it above the usual announcement spam of modern rail services. Letting a transport enthusiast record a message, assuming they do a satisfactory job, is not unprofessional. Where would you stand on the DLR PSAs that let 'front seat' children do the PA announcements?
 
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ComUtoR

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Kylie Monogue did announcements at London Bridge the other day.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Compared to that Haribo advert - this is top quality ......

All announcements can drive you mad - "Sainsbury's - (pause) live well for less" - though 3 of the "See it ...etc" , from St Albans to West Hampstead is almost enough to get a General Jodl reaction...

A good driver announcement is priceless. Even better an old school NYC subway conductor. IMHO.
 

bramling

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Mmm, I do agree with a lot of your criticisms of GTR but frankly I think this one is a bit petty. The announcement not only achieves its goal of enunciating the notice, but it's also temporary, it's not as if it'll be there forever. The fact that it isn't in the usual voice may also help draw attention to it above the usual announcement spam of modern rail services. Letting a transport enthusiast record a message, assuming they do a satisfactory job, is not unprofessional. Where would you stand on the DLR PSAs that let 'front seat' children do the PA announcements?

We might have to amicably agree to disagree on this one.

Part of my issue is that in my view it *isn’t* a satisfactory job. The announcement, to me, sounds like the person recording it is on some kind of ego trip, which having now found out who it is sadly comes as no surprise to me. Not an appropriate tone for something which is potentially a major disruptive inconvenience. It was the fact that, in my view, the message sounded stupid and unprofessional is why it got my nose (mildly) out of joint.

The only thing I took from it was something about a Brighton improvement project. I didn’t “hear” the rest because of the silly voice and the way the emphasis came over as being the person reading the message, not the messsge itself. My take-away would be that it was some kind of self-congratulating GTR message about their new trains and timetable! Which, after all, is allegedly a Brighton improvement project.

I don’t have a problem with kids being allowed to do announcements, or adults if it really floats their boat - albeit it shouldn’t be something important and definitely not safety-related. But having someone record an announcement being played on a regular basis IMO takes this too far. This TOC certainly has more than enough far more important things to be doing.
 
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samuelmorris

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Fair, and I will of course leave it at that. As far as the TOC having more important things to be doing, though, nice as it may be for whatever gains would be made sending the recording request off to the studio in Nottingham rather than asking Geoff to send in a recording and verifying it (probably very little) to enable more time to be spent on the major issues with Thameslink, I doubt the staff in that department have any control over such matters.
 

jon0844

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By the end of all this, everyone on the planet will know to check before travelling because of line closures, so it seems like mission accomplished.
 

Hadders

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A good driver announcement is priceless. Even better an old school NYC subway conductor. IMHO.

Best GTR driver announcement I've heard recently was when the shambles was in absolute full swing. I got on a 700 at Blackfriars heading south. Driver comes on as we approach London Bridge

'A very warm welcome to class (can't remember which one or the name of the school) who've just boarded the train. This is your driver speaking and Olivia, daddy is driving the train'

Another one that ticked me was on the Northern Line. Driver announces every stop along with the lines you can change to. As we pulled into Goodge Street

'This is Goodge Street. This is just for us - no changing here'. :D
 

MML

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I can't believe how daft the announcement sounds. Welcome to the Brighton mainline improvement project. There won't be any trains.
Perhaps it's how you define improvement ?
 

387star

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The 0518 0548 and 0618 to Peterborough from kings cross show as Thameslink services is this correct?

Will they eventually start from Gatwick or are they actually GN services?
 

bionic

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I used to work with a bloke who loved the sound of his own voice and never used to shut up on the PA. It was funny the first time, then it became extremely tiresome. Anyway, one day he had a SPAD because he was concentrating more on his pointless, repetitive and unfunny announcements than he was on his driving. There's a time and a place for drivers making PAs. For every one rambling on and on while the train is in motion there is a hugely increased chance of a safety of line incident. Its also extremely annoying and many punters will completely switch off. My view on announcements by drivers is keep them relevant, only make them when necessary and only when the train is stopped.

With regard to Geoff Marshall making announcements on the other hand, I think that's fantastic! :)
 

bramling

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The 0518 0548 and 0618 to Peterborough from kings cross show as Thameslink services is this correct?

Will they eventually start from Gatwick or are they actually GN services?

They are indeed ShamblesLink/ services formed of 700/1s.

Their main purpose seems to be to get the stock into service, as there’s limited space at the country end especially for 12-car trains. In theory they could run from elsewhere, but with Hornsey being a depot something has to come out from there so I can’t see too much changing - perhaps one or two could come ex core in the future if they ever decide to run an overnight service but I doubt all ever would.

If anything there might be a 0603 service when (if!) the second Cambridge hourly service starts.

All these early services are very lightly used. The 0518 takes a few shift workers home like the old 0522 used to do, and perhaps would take a few pissheads home on a Saturday, but the 0533 and 0548 sometimes leave KX totally empty. I imagine the 0618 would take a few who used to use the old 0622.
 
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387star

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There's a missing 0525 off Horsham that was removed in the July timetable too

Horsham has never had very late early trains

Every train after the missing 0525 off Horsham AFAIK goes to Bedford till around 0930 with a painfully slow stopping pattern
 
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387star

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There is also a service arriving into Peterborough around 3AM and another departing around that time but they are GN services
Be interesting who runs GN services in the future
A very metro Moorgate service combined with long-distance services and random peak time extras
 

bramling

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There is also a service arriving into Peterborough around 3AM and another departing around that time but they are GN services

Even these are both technically ShamblesLink/ and formed of 700s.

I think I’m right in saying that everything formed of a 700 is TL, and anything 365 or 387 is GN. Things may be slightly different at weekends for the time being at least.
 

387star

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Even these are both technically ShamblesLink/ and formed of 700s.

I think I’m right in saying that everything formed of a 700 is TL, and anything 365 or 387 is GN. Things may be slightly different at weekends for the time being at least.
No the 0320(I think it is))off Peterborough is definitely a 387

There are also royston terminators in the small hours that are TL and will in the future arrive from Maidstone?
 

bramling

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No the 0320(I think it is))off Peterborough is definitely a 387

That’s definitely a 700/1, MF at least, since FailPlan2020 came in. Upon arrival at KX it makes the 0518 back to Peterborough, which is also very much a 700/1.

Yes the Roystons will also presumably come from Maidstone, if that ever happens. Again they’re simply short workings of the standard-pattern TL service to allow the stock to more conveniently reach depot, in this case Letchworth carriage sidings.

Every TL service on the GN side has a standard half-hourly pattern, apart from Cambridge/Brighton which is currently hourly, the morning services which start from somewhere other than Horsham, and the late-night and early-morning 12-cars which serve Welwyn. Any short workings or King’s Cross services are simply cut-down versions of the standard pattern to facilitate the ramp up and ramp down of the service each day.
 

387star

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I have been on the 0324 peterborough to kings cross since may 20 and it was a 387 but maybe a saturday morning

Yes I see it is shown as Thameslink
The 0300 or thereabouts arrival into Peterborough us shown as GN
 

bramling

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I have been on the 0324 peterborough to kings cross since may 20 and it was a 387 but maybe a saturday morning

That will probably be why. The only other exception, possibly, is if there’s any engineering work.

The current weekend emergency timetable completely mixes everything up, with 365s 387s and 700s being diagrammed generally indiscriminately, albeit with some restrictions like 387s only to Kings Lynn and SDO being required on the stopping services (and apparently no double 387s due to the gangway debacle).
 

NorthKent1989

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It's called him earning his living. (I genuinely don't know if he was paid for the announcements, but why would it be a problem if he was paid? Other announcers nust be. Even so, it's none of your business frankly.). You might not like him, but he is a good face of railway enthusiasm to many, and good PR for GTR.

If he wasn't paid, it's still raising his profile for his YouTube channel etc.

I think GTR should focus on running a service than hiring well known personalities on YouTube, however I do like Geoff, so fair play to him, he’s helped made rail enthusiasm well known and less stigmatised
 

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bramling

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Absolutely. Charles Horton was lying on national TV about this. As you say just dismissed as teething problems.

One does wonder if he was *actually* lying, as surely anyone with half a brain cell would have known they would soon get found out. It's not like it's possible to cover up dozens of trains not turning up where they're supposed to.

Never go for a conspiracy when something can be explained by incompetence, and all that!
 
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Surreytraveller

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There is also a service arriving into Peterborough around 3AM and another departing around that time but they are GN services
Be interesting who runs GN services in the future
A very metro Moorgate service combined with long-distance services and random peak time extras
I believe those new trains on the East Coast Mainline are going to be cleared to run to Kings Lynn. So I wouldn't be surprised if the mainline GN stuff that doesn't go to Thameslink goes to LNER or its successor, and the inner stuff goes to TfL
 

jon0844

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Meanwhile, on the GN side (which it seems has had a pretty good day, with relatively few cancellations due to a lack of train crew) managed to show a train as cancelled when it had a driver and ran as normal, presumably without anyone on it.

Thing is, the head codes for Moorgate trains are recycled half way through the day. The same headcode was that of a cancelled train at 0729. Seems someone deleted both of them, so the evening one was showing to everyone as cancelled too.

Not the first time this has happened either.
 

DaveN

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One does wonder if he was *actually* lying, as surely anyone with half a brain cell would have known they would soon get found out. It's not like it's possible to cover up dozens of trains not turning up where they're supposed to.

Never go for a conspiracy when something can be explained by incompetence, and all that!
According to the Thameslink Industry Readiness board minutes for 4 May 2018, it was Chris Gibb's idea that "driver shortages" not be used for the reason for the cancelled services:

"5.5 CGi requested the comms for cancelled services not be 'driver shortages'. NB informed the board that the message from GTR will be 'short term timetable adjustment' rather than 'driver shortages'."

NB is Nick Brown, Chief Operating Officer of GTR.
There were at least 6 senior people from Network Rail at that meeting.
 

jon0844

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Well, technically they had drivers. It's just that they couldn't do the routes or possibly even sign the trains.

But they had drivers!
 
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