Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[bramling]

It's good that people have taken to the 700s despite the seats. People do seem to praise them now, presumably because they always appear less crowded than a 365 and even more so the 387s.

I think the 717s will be very well loved for this reason.

A 700/0 might feel less crowded than 1x365, but it’s certainly doesn’t feel less crowded than 2x365. Much more likely to have someone sitting next to you or directly opposite, or find all seats taken. I don’t regard that as feeling less crowded. The change was very noticeable when the old 2122 KX to Peterborough went through a period of being 365 then 387 then 365 then 700. Out of all those the only one which felt lightly loaded was the 365.

The inner stations like Hatfield and Potters Bar may not mind them, and likewise Hatfield will like the 717s as they will have pick of the seats. I can assure people the 700s are not popular further out, at places like Stevenage, Hitchin, Letchworth, Royston, Biggleswade etc.

 

[Hadders]

Stevenage passengers would rather have the 365s back from comments i’ve heard on board.

 

[bramling]

Stevenage passengers would rather have the 365s back from comments i’ve heard on board.

A lot of the comparison seems to be between 1x365 versus 700/0. That’s not a fair comparison. 2x365 is better in pretty much every way, with the exception perhaps of crush-loaded services - which were a rarity on GN, at least with the old timetable before the failed plan 2020.

 

[Steve Harris]

A 365 standing in for the modern train on the 17.21 KGX-CBG.

Looks a poor relation in terms of ride and space.

Hopefully a one off.

I can't agree that a Class 365 has poor ride compared to the 700 i was on the other day. I was glad to get off, as i had travel sickness. (the first time this has ever happened on a train in 45 yrs!)

Never felt a rough ride as bad as that in a 365. Nor had a numb bum after an hour in a 365 either.

 

[Ianno87]

I can't agree that a Class 365 has poor ride compared to the 700 i was on the other day. I was glad to get off, as i had travel sickness. (the first time this has ever happened on a train in 45 yrs!)

Never felt a rough ride as bad as that in a 365. Nor had a numb bum after an hour in a 365 either.

Impossible to work on a laptop on a 365 - bounces around too much. 387s and 700 much better in this respect.

And having spent since May 2017 becoming accustomed to 387s, definitely recognise the numb bum phenomenon on a 365 now. Can't get comfortable on them for love nor money.

 

[bramling]

I can't agree that a Class 365 has poor ride compared to the 700 i was on the other day. I was glad to get off, as i had travel sickness. (the first time this has ever happened on a train in 45 yrs!)

Never felt a rough ride as bad as that in a 365. Nor had a numb bum after an hour in a 365 either.

The ride on 365s is superb, like some other BR units of the time.

Even on jointed track (of which there was some on both the GN and South Eastern areas when the 365s were new) the ride was excellent. Massively better than a 387 which rides awfully, and better than the 700 too IMO.

 

[Downthelane]

Stevenage passengers would rather have the 365s back from comments i’ve heard on board.

That would be "first stop" Stevenage passengers?

With fast frequent services on FL and even the sometimes LNER option I find that impossible to believe!

 

[Ianno87]

The ride on 365s is superb, like some other BR units of the time.

Even on jointed track (of which there was some on both the GN and South Eastern areas when the 365s were new) the ride was excellent. Massively better than a 387 which rides awfully, and better than the 700 too IMO.

Sitting over the bogies in a 387/700 does make a noticeable difference to the ride compared to the centre of the carriage, I find.

 

[bramling]

Impossible to work on a laptop on a 365 - bounces around too much. 387s and 700 much better in this respect.

And having spent since May 2017 becoming accustomed to 387s, definitely recognise the numb bum phenomenon on a 365 now. Can't get comfortable on them for love nor money.

I can’t see how you can possibly say the 387 rides better. Every minute or so there will be a violent lurch from side to side when the train encounters an imperfection in the track - especially if sitting over the bogies. This results in elbows and arms being launched into the hard and too-high armrests, which in the window seats are of course fixed down. Plus things on the table also get thrown about.

 

[Ianno87]

I can’t see how you can possibly say the 387 rides better. Every minute or so there will be a violent lurch from side to side when the train encounters an imperfection in the track - especially if sitting over the bogies. This results in elbows and arms being launched into the hard and too-high armrests, which in the window seats are of course fixed down. Plus things on the table also get thrown about.

Not my experience at all. I can quite confidently work on a laptop on a table with a coffee next to it without fear of spillage (assuming its not full to brim - I'm not *that* daft!)

 

[ComUtoR]

I can’t see how you can possibly say the 387 rides better. Every minute or so there will be a violent lurch from side to side when the train encounters an imperfection in the track - especially if sitting over the bogies. This results in elbows and arms being launched into the hard and too-high armrests, which in the window seats are of course fixed down. Plus things on the table also get thrown about.

If you are thrown that violently and you are aware of any track imperfections then you should report it ASAP

 

[bramling]

Not my experience at all. I can quite confidently work on a laptop on a table with a coffee next to it without fear of spillage (assuming its not full to brim - I'm not *that* daft!)

It may well be the case that we’re
sitting in different places. The table seats at the vehicle ends are particularly rough, although I find strange movements elsewhere too that I don’t experience on any other type of train - except other Electrostars and, to a lesser extent, Turbostars (in the latter case they don’t generally spend so much of their time going at high or top speed).

 

[bramling]

If you are thrown that violently and you are aware of any track imperfections then you should report it ASAP

I don’t believe it’s anything untoward with the track, merely a product of the train’s suspension. It’s like riding on a train where the secondary air suspension is deflated. You can feel the same locations on other trains, but nothing like as bad as a 387.

It’s not just the 387s - I’ve always found other Electrostars ride poorly too.

I’d go as far as to say a 387 rides worse than the motor car of a 317, which were always rough.

 

[Steve Harris]

Sitting over the bogies in a 387/700 does make a noticeable difference to the ride compared to the centre of the carriage, I find.

I was in the centre of the carriage ! Rear declassified first class in fact !

 

[philjo]

I have had a couple of bumpy rides recently in a 700 going at speed southbound over the points at Foxton. Never noticed it in a 365 or 387.

Personally my preference for comfort is a 365 every time. you get proper leg room for a start.
At least when I am commuting to Cambridge these days in a 12 coach 700 I can get a bay of 4 seats to myself most mornings!
On Saturday morning I was on a 700 stopper going towards London. due to disruption the previous 2 services had been cancelled so the train was full and standing after Hitchin.
I think the loading indicator was yellow/orange for every coach by welwyn GC, except for the front coach which was still green as 1st class was empty - though the standard class section of the coach was very cosy..

The problem with the loading indicator screens - they do not display when you get on and if the stations are close together won't display long enough to see them properly. I think they displayed a couple of times for about 5-10 seconds on the stopper between Cambridge and Baldock the other day as it was scrolling about 3 times through the calling stations list between each stop. You really need that information to show on the screens on the platform so you are standing in the correct place before the train arrives. it is too late once you try to get on a full train to be able to move along. Especially if you have got luggage with you.

 

[Jona26]

Delays through the core due to passenger falling down the gap between platform and train at Farringdon.

Passenger now in care of Ambulance Service - wishing her a speedy recovery.

Platform re-opened at 23.01 following a short period of bi-di working.

Service was 2119 Bedford to Brighton. Excellent first aid provided by passengers and station staff on scene.

 

[mgmidget1500]

I've noticed the ride quality on the 700's from Bedford appears to be getting worse, I tend to sit in the declassified first class, and the lurching around makes working on a laptop difficult (now this maybe down to the track quality), but I also travel from Biggleswade regularly catching both 700's and 365's, I find the 365's easier to work on (even with the laptop perched on one of the tiny quarter tables) than on the 700's. Caught a 387 from Kings X tonight, while it was nice to have a full table in std class, it feels claustrophobic compared to either a 700 or 365.

I don't miss the 377's on the MML anymore (since first class has been declassified on the rears of the 700's), but I do miss tables in std class, but my unit of choice is the 365, comfy and airy.

 

[OwenB]

A few cancellations on GN this morning due to shortage of drivers. So reintroduce a few services and back to this situation? I must say this is incredibly poor.

 

[Hadders]

That would be "first stop" Stevenage passengers?

With fast frequent services on FL and even the sometimes LNER option I find that impossible to believe!

Yes indeed - I've heard several comments including 'can we have the old trains back', and 'maybe the seats in standard are so bad to encourage us to upgrade to 1st class'

I was in the centre of the carriage ! Rear declassified first class in fact !

Well there we go. What about comparing the bargain basement standard class area.

 

[Bedpan]

I can’t see how you can possibly say the 387 rides better. Every minute or so there will be a violent lurch from side to side when the train encounters an imperfection in the track - especially if sitting over the bogies. This results in elbows and arms being launched into the hard and too-high armrests, which in the window seats are of course fixed down. Plus things on the table also get thrown about.

Armrests? Tables? Ah yes, I remember those now! To me, the 377/5s and 387s were the best trains we have had since electrification, rapidly followed by the worst in the 700s.

 

[bramling]

Armrests? Tables? Ah yes, I remember those now! To me, the 377/5s and 387s were the best trains we have had since electrification, rapidly followed by the worst in the 700s.

The Thameslink side went from 319s to Electrostars so I can see how they would be seen as an improvement. To be fair the 377/5 is much nicer than the 387 mainly due to the seats.

GN had the 365s which were a much harder act to follow than 319s. Having said that, the Welwyn commuters seemed to have the hump when the 317s were replaced - one presumes this was mainly due to seat numbers. Certainly Welwyn in the peaks hasn’t really scored any extra services nor extra length even now, with no uplift in the pipeline.

 

[class387]

The Thameslink side went from 319s to Electrostars so I can see how they would be seen as an improvement. To be fair the 377/5 is much nicer than the 387 mainly due to the seats.

GN had the 365s which were a much harder act to follow than 319s. Having said that, the Welwyn commuters seemed to have the hump when the 317s were replaced - one presumes this was mainly due to seat numbers. Certainly Welwyn in the peaks hasn’t really scored any extra services nor extra length even now, with no uplift in the pipeline.

I'd say the 387s are better than the 377s due to having 2+2 seating throughout. The 3+2 seats on the 377s are very uncomfortable.

 

[ijmad]

It seems to be a common thread among railway fans that older is better, when it comes to rolling stock.

I give you that in this case, it may be true, but it still doesn't mean there's any way to reverse course. The 700s are delivered and paid for. They're not going away, and the stocks they replaced will be scrapped or cascaded. Better to focus on how to improve the 700s rather than harp on about bringing back Networkers.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I think Electrostars have largely filled the void that the Networkers were supposed to fill before the 1990s recession, I'm actually surprised Thameslink didn't go with a variant of Electrostars i know they borrowed them from Southern for a set period only unfortunately.

However the Class 700's has to be improved, just with back sufferers alone its a painful ride, i have a back injury and riding on a class 700 for over an hour often causes me pain, that I've sometimes headed to Victoria just to get a comfortable seat and ride home.

In time the 700s will have to improve some have been retrofitted with tables i hope something can be done about the seats, say what you want about the SE Networkers but at least they're comfortable

 

[bramling]

It seems to be a common thread among railway fans that older is better, when it comes to rolling stock.

I give you that in this case, it may be true, but it still doesn't mean there's any way to reverse course. The 700s are delivered and paid for. They're not going away, and the stocks they replaced will be scrapped or cascaded. Better to focus on how to improve the 700s rather than harp on about bringing back Networkers.

The difference is that
1) in this case the Networkers are readily available
2) the issue of 700 unpopularity coincides with a timetable which is delivering a highly unreliable service - even with less than half of the committed through services per hour actually running.

A neat and cheap solution to two problems, with further scope for some slight redeployments of 700s to places where some additional benefits can be brought - for example 700/1s vice 700/0s on some routes/services.

 

[Hadders]

It's also worth pointing out the promised 12-car 700s have never operated on the Great Northern routes at weekends.

All that promised extra capacity has simply failed to materialise.

 

[KC1]

Greetings one and all, could someone tell me what happened to the late night Sutton services from Blackfriars via either Wimbledon or Mitcham Eastfields. I am convinced that there used to be a late train that ran about 11:30ish? If I am correct in thinking that, will it ever return?

Much obliged.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Greetings one and all, could someone tell me what happened to the late night Sutton services from Blackfriars via either Wimbledon or Mitcham Eastfields. I am convinced that there used to be a late train that ran about 11:30ish? If I am correct in thinking that, will it ever return?

Much obliged.

Still alive and kicking as 9O81 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W64255/2018/09/27/advanced)
Departs Blackfriars at 2306 and runs via Mitcham Eastfields.

 

[KC1]

Ah I see. My mistake. I thought there was a later one than that. Thanks.

 

[387star]

It's also worth pointing out the promised 12-car 700s have never operated on the Great Northern routes at weekends.

All that promised extra capacity has simply failed to materialise.

No idea why trains don't run through the core to Peterborough and Cambridge on weekends this must change soon?