Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[class387]

You would hope that even GTR wouldn’t cancel every peak service in the morning to proirise driver training they should have completed months ago. . I am guessing that a train failed in the Finsbury Park area which meant no services from Moorgate could get to Welwyn Garden City to return south. I speculate this because if it was say a signal failure on the Moorgate branch GTR would be shouting everywhere that the service was disrupted because of a network rail accountable issue. As the issue was likely to be a GTR accountable issue much better to say nothing and treat passengers with the contempt we have grown to expect out of them.

The poster mentions 2 trains. They couldn’t board the first. (2x 365s). The 2nd was 700 formed.

I don’t think that the inners and outers share crew. Which is why during this shambles the are generally the only trains running from WGC and south of.

Gateline staff at Hatfield (who were understandably very annoyed, "just kill me" - not good staff morale) pointed out two Moorgate trains in the platform at WGC, therefore there were trains available to return south, but both were without drivers so unable to run and blocking the line.

 

[Aictos]

You would hope that even GTR wouldn’t cancel every peak service in the morning to proirise driver training they should have completed months ago. . I am guessing that a train failed in the Finsbury Park area which meant no services from Moorgate could get to Welwyn Garden City to return south. I speculate this because if it was say a signal failure on the Moorgate branch GTR would be shouting everywhere that the service was disrupted because of a network rail accountable issue. As the issue was likely to be a GTR accountable issue much better to say nothing and treat passengers with the contempt we have grown to expect out of them.

The poster mentions 2 trains. They couldn’t board the first. (2x 365s). The 2nd was 700 formed.

I don’t think that the inners and outers share crew. Which is why during this shambles the are generally the only trains running from WGC and south of.

It must have changed then because for years, the Inners and Outers shared crews for example, a Cambridge driver could quite easily be diagrammed to work a Hertford during the course of their shift indeed at one point under First Capital Connect you could and would find Kings Lynn drivers working a Hertford although there were exceptions to the rule such as Peterborough drivers signed no further then Cambridge etc...

As to cancelling the entire Inner peak, that's not good!

 

[Failed Unit]

I think that should be the embarrassing thing for GTR management. The lack of communication to front line staff. I got the feeling that they were getting more information about “delayed” services from people getting turfed off them at WGC.

Very basic stuff.

Meanwhile if this is day 1 of their notice period. today they have ran 64% of inners and 35% of outers on time.

 

[Failed Unit]

It must have changed then because for years, the Inners and Outers shared crews for example, a Cambridge driver could quite easily be diagrammed to work a Hertford during the course of their shift indeed at one point under First Capital Connect you could and would find Kings Lynn drivers working a Hertford although there were exceptions to the rule such as Peterborough drivers signed no further then Cambridge etc...

As to cancelling the entire Inner peak, that's not good!

I could be wrong. As it is all the same super franchise but i understand the great northern branded inners no longer interchange. But many GN drivers on here that I am sure will correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Aictos]

I could be wrong. As it is all the same super franchise but i understand the great northern branded inners no longer interchange. But many GN drivers on here that I am sure will correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe, perhaps Fred26 could enlighten us?

 

[farleigh]

Meanwhile if this is day 1 of their notice period. today they have ran 64% of inners and 35% of outers on time.

So overall 99% on time!

 

[southern442]

Of course the service is bad but everyone has likely worked out a way to travel to minimise the problems by now?

I would agree with you here, but the anger and worry is people wondering whether their journey amendments may become permanent. I imagine there are a good few people who have decided to get up and leave the house an hour or so earlier, or come home an hour or so later, just as a temporary measure, and they are now worried that it may become permanent.

 

[OwenB]

I would agree with you here, but the anger and worry is people wondering whether their journey amendments may become permanent. I imagine there are a good few people who have decided to get up and leave the house an hour or so earlier, or come home an hour or so later, just as a temporary measure, and they are now worried that it may become permanent.

Spot on. I'm up much earlier in the morning than I was pre-May timetable. It was fine for the first week or two, as one just presumes it will settle down after teething problems It is, however, grinding me down now and not sure how long I can go on with it

 

[Downthelane]

And still to explanation of what caused this mornings meltdown at WGC and HAT.

Station staff didn't know either.

No Moorgate trains at all, should anyone want to tolerate those awful and cramped units.

I recall someone said a few months ago that GN should have introduced this timetable only once the 717's were delivered.

They were wise words, that person could be of some use to the DfT.

 

[jon0844]

And still to explanation of what caused this mornings meltdown at WGC and HAT.

Station staff didn't know either.

No Moorgate trains at all, should anyone want to tolerate those awful and cramped units.

I recall someone said a few months ago that GN should have introduced this timetable only once the 717's were delivered.

They were wise words, that person could be of some use to the DfT.

Issues down at Finsbury Park I believe, which stopped trains running north to return later. No idea of the specifics.

Evening peak has run pretty well to WGC. Of course without first class in operation, which will now be the norm from mid July when the new timetable starts.

 

[bramling]

Issues down at Finsbury Park I believe, which stopped trains running north to return later. No idea of the specifics.

Evening peak has run pretty well to WGC. Of course without first class in operation, which will now be the norm from mid July when the new timetable starts.

Evening certainly not gone well, delays and reactionary delays all over the show. People complaining that their journey taking hour or two longer than before the change. The service is a total joke - unreliable, slow and of course uncomfortable, everything which was predicted. Every single person associated with specifying this disaster should be put on trial for misappropriating public funds!

 

[Fred26]

Maybe, perhaps Fred26 could enlighten us?

I can, but I'm not a driver.

Only Hitchin and Kings Cross drivers sign Moorgate now. (I believe there may be restrictions on how far north those drivers go too, but I'm not certain). However, Hitchin and Kings Cross drivers are able to drive anything, really, presuming they are stock trained.
Occasionally a Cambridge or Peterborough driver turns up on a Moorgate service, but then finds no relief at Finsbury Park, so the train is cancelled, because the driver can't go down the NCL.

There are also new depots at Welwyn Garden City and Hornsey. At the moment the WGC depot is just a separate link on the Hitchin roster, ready to move when the depot is built. I believe this is for drivers to drive the WGC-Maidstone and WGC-Moorgate, but I stand to be corrected. As for Hornsey depot, I don't know much about that at all.

As I say, I'm not a driver, but I do speak to a lot of them. There are GN drivers on here, so I'm sure one will be along soon to say I'm talking rubbish!

 

[jon0844]

Evening certainly not gone well, delays and reactionary delays all over the show. People complaining that their journey taking hour or two longer than before the change. The service is a total joke - unreliable, slow and of course uncomfortable, everything which was predicted. Every single person associated with specifying this disaster should be put on trial for misappropriating public funds!

For the most part things ran well. The 1832 was delayed due to a previously broken down train coming out of the yard late, and there were some cancelled KGX and CBG trains but the former had the semi fasts or Moorgate, the latter buses.

The vast majority of trains ran.

 

[bramling]

For the most part things ran well. The 1832 was delayed due to a previously broken down train coming out of the yard late, and there were some cancelled KGX and CBG trains but the former had the semi fasts or Moorgate, the latter buses.

The vast majority of trains ran.

I was referring more to the post peak period, which has been a complete mess. The Peterborough and Cambridge service looks like a horror story, core services in particular but also the GN services haven’t been unscathed with at least two 365 services cancelled.

Staff at my station were taking a massive amount of stick too. Feels like the operation has simply given up now. It’s certainly going to be interesting to see how 15th July goes - thankfully I’m on holiday again.

 

[ungreat]

I can, but I'm not a driver.

Only Hitchin and Kings Cross drivers sign Moorgate now. (I believe there may be restrictions on how far north those drivers go too, but I'm not certain). However, Hitchin and Kings Cross drivers are able to drive anything, really, presuming they are stock trained.
Occasionally a Cambridge or Peterborough driver turns up on a Moorgate service, but then finds no relief at Finsbury Park, so the train is cancelled, because the driver can't go down the NCL.

There are also new depots at Welwyn Garden City and Hornsey. At the moment the WGC depot is just a separate link on the Hitchin roster, ready to move when the depot is built. I believe this is for drivers to drive the WGC-Maidstone and WGC-Moorgate, but I stand to be corrected. As for Hornsey depot, I don't know much about that at all.

As I say, I'm not a driver, but I do speak to a lot of them. There are GN drivers on here, so I'm sure one will be along soon to say I'm talking rubbish!

Pretty much correct...however not all KX drivers sign 700s.
Personally dont see much changing mid July...there won't be any more drivers that sign the entire route as route learning is still suspended. Plus fewer trains are timetabled to run anyway...if that's possible!!

 

[Hadders]

Another low this morning. 0710, 0717, 0720 and 0732 all cancelled from Stevenage.

An 8 car 365 from Baldock made an additional stop at 0724 but it was full and standing at Stevenage. At least 50 left behind at Welwyn North.

It’s getting crazy now...

 

[OwenB]

Another low this morning. 0710, 0717, 0720 and 0732 all cancelled from Stevenage.

An 8 car 365 from Baldock made an additional stop at 0724 but it was full and standing at Stevenage. At least 50 left behind at Welwyn North.

It’s getting crazy now...

I know I'm no expert, but I simply do not understand why/how things are getting even worse after 6-7 weeks. Am I naive to think that over this period that at least some of the drivers would be adequately trained up by now, meaning fewer cancellations? It's incredibly wearing now and have thought of handing in my resignation on more than one occasion because I simply don't see any end to my long days.

 

[Failed Unit]

Another low this morning. 0710, 0717, 0720 and 0732 all cancelled from Stevenage.

An 8 car 365 from Baldock made an additional stop at 0724 but it was full and standing at Stevenage. At least 50 left behind at Welwyn North.

It’s getting crazy now...

The passengers seem to have given up as well now with the “are you feeling lucky” timetable we currently have.

I hope when the enhancemed compensation is made available they don’t make the process as difficult to claim as delay repay. That would be yet another kick in the teeth from a company that it feels now, like their management actively despise passengers and their own front line staff.

Not often you see trains full upon leaving Hatfield when they start at WGC

 

[philjo]

Several cancellations towards Cambridge again. 0712 Kings Cross to Kings Lynn stopping additionally at Letchworth, Ashwell & Morden and Royston was effectively the first service today, though was late again as it left Kings Cross 7 minutes late. The station staff were also announcing a bus at the front of the station to Royston only a couple of minutes before this train arrived.

At Letchworth the 0734 to Kings Cross was showing as on time on the screens calling at Stevenage. This is the service from Kings Lynn making additional stops. at 0733 the screens changed from "On time" to Cancelled and a few minutes later the train went through Letchworth at speed so everyone would have to get on the 2x365 service that started from Royston.

 

[Aictos]

I can, but I'm not a driver.

Only Hitchin and Kings Cross drivers sign Moorgate now. (I believe there may be restrictions on how far north those drivers go too, but I'm not certain). However, Hitchin and Kings Cross drivers are able to drive anything, really, presuming they are stock trained.
Occasionally a Cambridge or Peterborough driver turns up on a Moorgate service, but then finds no relief at Finsbury Park, so the train is cancelled, because the driver can't go down the NCL.

There are also new depots at Welwyn Garden City and Hornsey. At the moment the WGC depot is just a separate link on the Hitchin roster, ready to move when the depot is built. I believe this is for drivers to drive the WGC-Maidstone and WGC-Moorgate, but I stand to be corrected. As for Hornsey depot, I don't know much about that at all.

As I say, I'm not a driver, but I do speak to a lot of them. There are GN drivers on here, so I'm sure one will be along soon to say I'm talking rubbish!

No worries least we have a better idea now of what the driver depots are capable of now, yes I know you're not a driver as been subtly mentioned before.

I'm surprised they took the Moorgate work off Cambridge and Peterborough though as the more routes a depot signs the better in my humble view as it means it's easier to cover other depots work as and when. It also means the chances of a driver not knowing a specific route is lessened.

 

[Fred26]

No worries least we have a better idea now of what the driver depots are capable of now, yes I know you're not a driver as been subtly mentioned before.

I'm surprised they took the Moorgate work off Cambridge and Peterborough though as the more routes a depot signs the better in my humble view as it means it's easier to cover other depots work as and when. It also means the chances of a driver not knowing a specific route is lessened.

Yes, it's another reason we're in this mess.

 

[Aictos]

Yes, it's another reason we're in this mess.

In other words it's a complete shambles, not even FCC was this bad - although has GTR reached the standards of Connex yet?

 

[Hadders]

In other words it's a complete shambles, not even FCC was this bad - although has GTR reached the standards of Connex yet?

I think GTR are far worse than Connex.

 

[ungreat]

Route learning is suspended...

I know I'm no expert, but I simply do not understand why/how things are getting even worse after 6-7 weeks. Am I naive to think that over this period that at least some of the drivers would be adequately trained up by now, meaning fewer cancellations? It's incredibly wearing now and have thought of handing in my resignation on more than one occasion because I simply don't see any end to my long days.

 

[gingerheid]

I know that I'll be corrected if I'm wrong...

Am I right in picking up from various posts here (and personal experience) that the train depots, driver depots & driver changeover points are all (or are usually / often) in different places?

That can... never work?

 

[bramling]

Several cancellations towards Cambridge again. 0712 Kings Cross to Kings Lynn stopping additionally at Letchworth, Ashwell & Morden and Royston was effectively the first service today, though was late again as it left Kings Cross 7 minutes late. The station staff were also announcing a bus at the front of the station to Royston only a couple of minutes before this train arrived.

At Letchworth the 0734 to Kings Cross was showing as on time on the screens calling at Stevenage. This is the service from Kings Lynn making additional stops. at 0733 the screens changed from "On time" to Cancelled and a few minutes later the train went through Letchworth at speed so everyone would have to get on the 2x365 service that started from Royston.

Total mess again today. Some services at my station being announced as over 100 minutes late. Never heard than on GN in 30 years!

 

[Fred26]

Total mess again today. Some services at my station being announced as over 100 minutes late. Never heard than on GN in 30 years!

There's been two lineside fires today.

Also delays like that could've happened before. Wires down at Huntingdon and St Neots in one week a few years back is one example, that could've caused delays that large, however they probably didn't as the trains would've just been cancelled.

 

[JonathanH]

Broken down Southern train on the fast lines at Honor Oak Park for three hours today as well has caused havoc with the planned services.

 

[HH]

I know that I'll be corrected if I'm wrong...

Am I right in picking up from various posts here (and personal experience) that the train depots, driver depots & driver changeover points are all (or are usually / often) in different places?

That can... never work?

No, you're not picking that up. If a driver depot is not at the rolling stock depot there is a good reason. Driver relief points do not have to be at depots although many are.

There is a case with GTR that not all relief points may be ideal from a performance point of view, having been picked with a view to "efficiency".

 

[physics34]

I think GTR are far worse than Connex.

yep, easily.