Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[sarahj]

Then without doubt they should not have cancelled every other service through Redhill.

They have been sending some Southamptons via Redhill today.

For others, a brief has gone out on what ticket is valid to which terminal. Hope it makes some sense.

 

[the Rat]

Certainly going to be a fun evening for the returning derby crowds as coupled with a points failure at Sutton earlier, the 1625 Victoria - Horsham has failed at Sutton P2. So far, there's been no arrival/departure from Epsom Downs since 1709 - next Victoria service is the 1839.

Oh dear. Perhaps some of them could head back to the race course and hire a horse - might be quicker in the long run, certainly more reliable and perhaps a touch more comfortable.

 

[sarahj]

Oh dear. Perhaps some of them could head back to the race course and hire a horse - might be quicker in the long run, certainly more reliable and perhaps a touch more comfortable.

Luckily most punters go via Tattenham corner. I did a zero fare change today for a punter whose wife had bought him a Nvn to Epsom Downs, when he wanted Tattenham corner. The ill train has now gone, but the queuing system at Tatt is coping

 

[the Rat]

The ill train has now gone, but the queuing system at Tatt is coping

Excellent, everyone's under starting orders for the 'Who'll Get A Seat' Handicap Stakes, run over 1 furlong, with a nasty gap between train and platform edge to deal with. My money's on whoever has the pointiest elbows...or the largest hat!!

 

[sarahj]

Poor little station
https://goo.gl/maps/Fq3YxfPUdW42

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

My apologies, but if only you knew the true figure, your socks would've launched across the room from laughing so hard. Mine just have.

"Just 80%"!!!

*Wipes away tears of laughter*

Good to see that there's still room for humour, even in the middle of chaos! So is the true figure more like 30%? So few trains ever seem to have made it through the Canal Tunnel since Monday last, it can't be much more than that..?

 

[MikeWh]

For others, a brief has gone out on what ticket is valid to which terminal. Hope it makes some sense.

Well, on the plus side it clearly mentions the easement for London Terminals from the north using Underground from Kings Cross to Old Street/Moorgate.

On the minus side, why are you allowed to travel to St Pancras from the north on a London Thameslink ticket, but if your train goes to Kings Cross you then have to walk to St Pancras and travel further because you can only use Kings Cross for changing. Why can't you leave at Kings Cross?

 

[methethpropbut]

On the minus side, why are you allowed to travel to St Pancras from the north on a London Thameslink ticket, but if your train goes to Kings Cross you then have to walk to St Pancras and travel further because you can only use Kings Cross for changing. Why can't you leave at Kings Cross?

How are they even going to enforce this anyway?

"Sorry sir, you have to go through the barriers at St. Pancras because you're not allowed to leave the system at King's Cross."
Guy goes through barriers and immediately comes out again because the ticket is valid to St. Pancras after all
"Thank you sir, have a good day."

 

[jamie_]

On 9T58 and we have been re-routed via Crystal Palace so only guessing that the driver don’t sign via London Bridge or something is broken....

 

[talldave]

They have been sending some Southamptons via Redhill today.

For others, a brief has gone out on what ticket is valid to which terminal. Hope it makes some sense.

What happened to Vauxhall as a London Terminal?

PS: Can you send a copy to the Thameslink Twitter team ?

 

[Antman]

The 23.22 Sevenoaks to Blackfriars is cancelled, the last train of the day. This would have been unheard of before the recent timetable change.

 

[Bedpan]

How are they even going to enforce this anyway?

"Sorry sir, you have to go through the barriers at St. Pancras because you're not allowed to leave the system at King's Cross."
Guy goes through barriers and immediately comes out again because the ticket is valid to St. Pancras after all
"Thank you sir, have a good day."

Surely you'd be allowed to break your journey at Kings Cross .... and doesn't that mean that you can stop short of your destination if you want to?

 

[JonathanH]

What has changed between 19 May and 2 June such that on Saturdays before the timetable change there were enough drivers to do half hourly Bedford to Brighton and half hourly Bedford to Three Bridges services but now there aren't even enough to cover less than half of that service?

 

[Bedpan]

The 23.22 Sevenoaks to Blackfriars is cancelled, the last train of the day. This would have been unheard of before the recent timetable change.

Last two northbound trains through Harpenden have been cancelled too - 23.42 Brighton to Bedford (which admittedly is a planned cancellation under the emergency timetable) - and 00.04 Brighton to Luton.

 

[Kanrakuq]

What has changed between 19 May and 2 June such that on Saturdays before the timetable change there were enough drivers to do half hourly Bedford to Brighton and half hourly Bedford to Three Bridges services but now there aren't even enough to cover less than half of that service?

One hopes they’re on route learning but these days frankly who knows ...

 

[Taunton]

One hopes they’re on route learning but these days frankly who knows ...

If GTR were putting out honest public statements, along the lines of "x drivers are on a rapid programme to handle the new routes, they will be available from June x and then a further x are doing the same", then there might be some understanding. But the current management attitude of "we'll cancel what we want when we want with no notice" is just unacceptable. I suppose they just can't admit there are driver training constraints because then the genie would be out of the bottle for blaming it all on NR.

Tomorrow, Monday 10 June, with schools and full commuter traffic back, is going to be a crunch day.

In passing, just how many days' work is actually required to qualify for route learning from say Finsbury Park throuth the core? How many have actually qualified since the start of the new timetable, given that things seem to be getting worse rather than better.

 

[Hadders]

It's the uncertainty that's the problem.

I check the train info when I go to bed for the following morning. Get up and find it's changed. Arrive at the station and it's often changed again. Commuters morning schedules are well timed - you can't mess us about like this!

On the way home can I get a direct train from Farringdon or do I need to head to Kings Cross. What's going to actually operate. The position at lunchtime is often different to reality a few hours later.

I'm relatively lucky as travelling from Stevenage means I've got VTEC to fall back on, at least on the way home. My boss travels from Arlesey.....

This is before we get to the issue of fewer trains, longer running times etc.

What we had before wasn't broken. The only significant issue was running 4-car trains on the stopping services at weekends. This could've been fixed easily.

Something needs to be done and fast. If it's an emergency timetable then fine. At least give us some certainty and robustness about what trains will actually operate.

 

[Skimble19]

As said a couple of pages back for those of you on GN there will be a revised timetable in operation from tomorrow until Mid July. The aim is for the peaks to be a lot less affected by cancellations.

 

[talldave]

As said a couple of pages back for those of you on GN there will be a revised timetable in operation from tomorrow until Mid July. The aim is for the peaks to be a lot less affected by cancellations.

Hmmm, like anyone trusts GTR to achieve that after two weeks of lies, misinformation and overwhelming incompetence?

 

[Hadders]

As said a couple of pages back for those of you on GN there will be a revised timetable in operation from tomorrow until Mid July. The aim is for the peaks to be a lot less affected by cancellations.

That's good to know. I hope the details will be available before I go to bed tonight so I know what time I'll need to get up in the morning.

 

[Floydlover25]

That's good to know. I hope the details will be available before I go to bed tonight so I know what time I'll need to get up in the morning.

I believe they are already in RTT and NRE (for this week anyway)

 

[jon0844]

As said a couple of pages back for those of you on GN there will be a revised timetable in operation from tomorrow until Mid July. The aim is for the peaks to be a lot less affected by cancellations.

It may not be published until 2200-2300 so those wishing to check times now may want to stay up a bit longer (and perhaps not go to bed at all, as you may need to start your travel at 3 or 4am!).

 

[Floydlover25]

It may not be published until 2200-2300 so those wishing to check times now may want to stay up a bit longer (and perhaps not go to bed at all, as you may need to start your travel at 3 or 4am!).

Whilst no mention of them on railplan2020 the times currently showing on RTT and NRE for tomorrow and the rest of this week (until Fri 8th) are different (worse) to those showing for the week after (w/c 11th June). Are you saying they will be changed again sometime late tonight?

 

[class387]

Disappointed to see the 0755 from HAT removed from the timetable, probably till July. Quite an important morning peak train.

 

[talldave]

It may not be published until 2200-2300 so those wishing to check times now may want to stay up a bit longer (and perhaps not go to bed at all, as you may need to start your travel at 3 or 4am!).

But all they're publishing is a list of services that may be cancelled, having removed those that are definitely cancelled. There's still no way of knowing what will run.

 

[Bishopstone]

I will be interested to see whether tomorrow's timetable includes more, or fewer, trains than the pre-May timetable. I realise it's difficult to measure, with various service groups having changed TOC and joined-up through the core.

I'm not familiar with the Northern situation, but I've read their PR material suggesting that even after the services cut from tomorrow until July, they will still be running more trains than pre-May. Will this be true of Thameslink, I wonder?

 

[The Box Photter]

But the real elephant in the room is not whether GTR can deliver some kind of emergency timetable until they've enough trained drivers to implement the new one, it's whether the new timetable is a good idea at all.

From what I've seen, even if the new timetable had worked perfectly out of the box on 21 May, there would still have been thousands of passengers who's previous commuting trains simply disappeared overnight, to be replaced by slower trains going to kind of the same place, but also involving complex changes en-route. Certain places (notably Harpenden) saw a net loss of services in the morning and evening peaks.

Why is DfT and GTR so set on delivering something that very few people seemed to want in the first place?

RailPlan 2020 needs to go in the bin and the trains need to be timed to match the passenger flows required by existing customers first. We can't just change jobs or up sticks and move because some teenage railway timetabler who probably cycles to work from his mum's house thinks that the track and trains could be better utilised. Thameslink is about shifting large amounts of self-loading cargo from the home counties into London in the morning and taking them home again in the evening. In South London it does the job the tube does in North London. That's all.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

But the real elephant in the room is not whether GTR can deliver some kind of emergency timetable until they've enough trained drivers to implement the new one, it's whether the new timetable is a good idea at all.

From what I've seen, even if the new timetable had worked perfectly out of the box on 21 May, there would still have been thousands of passengers who's previous commuting trains simply disappeared overnight, to be replaced by slower trains going to kind of the same place, but also involving complex changes en-route. Certain places (notably Harpenden) saw a net loss of services in the morning and evening peaks.

Why is DfT and GTR so set on delivering something that very few people seemed to want in the first place?

RailPlan 2020 needs to go in the bin and the trains need to be timed to match the passenger flows required by existing customers first. We can't just change jobs or up sticks and move because some teenage railway timetabler who probably cycles to work from his mum's house thinks that the track and trains could be better utilised. Thameslink is about shifting large amounts of self-loading cargo from the home counties into London in the morning and taking them home again in the evening. In South London it does the job the tube does in North London. That's all.

If Thameslink 2000 ddn't come to (a kind of) fruition till 2018 can we expect it to be 2038 by the time RailPlan 2020 is up and running properly ?

 

[nickswift99]

If Thameslink 2000 ddn't come to (a kind of) fruition till 2018 can we expect it to be 2038 by the time RailPlan 2020 is up and running properly ?

The Unix epoch? It’ll probably be 1970 when the timetable actually works

 

[wipeout]

From what I've seen, even if the new timetable had worked perfectly out of the box on 21 May, there would still have been thousands of passengers who's previous commuting trains simply disappeared overnight, to be replaced by slower trains going to kind of the same place, but also involving complex changes en-route. Certain places (notably Harpenden) saw a net loss of services in the morning and evening peaks.

There's also Oakleigh Park and New Southgate which have seen a net loss of services in the morning (but strangely not the evening) peak. If NRE is correct this is now reduced further in the emergency timetable tomorrow. It's gone from 11 services between 7 am and 9 am pre-May 20 to just 7 tomorrow (and that's without any further cancellations on the day).

Meanwhile, the new 4 tph off-peak service remains (although again it remains to be seen how many actually run in practice). Whilst the more frequent off peak service is welcome it really shouldn't be the priority given that the previous 3 tph was never anywhere near full whenever I used it.