Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[talldave]

The trains are back showing as 'via London St.Pancras' this morning. No space between the St. and Pancras, but it's a start!

Upper or lower case P? New screens in the core were showing "London Stpancras" the other day. I'm amazed anyone at GTR has the time to screw up station names at the moment!

 

[jon0844]

Upper or lower case P? New screens in the core were showing "London Stpancras" the other day. I'm amazed anyone at GTR has the time to screw up station names at the moment!

As I typed it. With a capital P. One step at a time...

 

[Silver Cobra]

The trains are back showing as 'via London St.Pancras' this morning. No space between the St. and Pancras, but it's a start!

I noticed this at Arlesey earlier today, that the 'London' prefix has returned for St Pancras. They still list Blackfriars without the 'London' prefix though.
Interestingly, the destination boards at Peterborough list the Horsham services as 'Via Central London' rather than 'Via London St Pancras'.

 

[talldave]

I noticed this at Arlesey earlier today, that the 'London' prefix has returned for St Pancras. They still list Blackfriars without the 'London' prefix though.
Interestingly, the destination boards at Peterborough list the Horsham services as 'Via Central London' rather than 'Via London St Pancras'.

"Via London Terminals" would be much more fun

Or maybe we need a "Central London" ticket?

 

[Hadders]

Or maybe we need a "Central London" ticket?

There is one - London Thameslink.

 

[387star]

I don't understand why drivers who sign the whole route to Peterborough are being relieved at finsbury park at all but there are many complexities

 

[NorthKent1989]

Thameslink service from London Bridge to Epsom via West Croydon, what's this about?

Also not seen a Horsham train advertised at London Bridge seen plenty to Peterborough though

 

[mmh]

Thameslink service from London Bridge to Epsom via West Croydon, what's this about?

It won't be a Thameslink service, it'll be Southern. They were entered with the incorrect operator code when the post May timetable data was added, and haven't been fixed.

It causes minor confusion at stations where display boards will say they're Thameslink but not, and manual announcers sometimes pause when reading it e.g. "platform blah for the 10.20, <pause>, err service to blah"

I suppose it's not a massive thing but it not being fixed just adds to that quirky Thameslink charm everyone loves.

 

[philjo]

I saw a service from Brighton arrive at Cambridge this morning. I think it the first one I have seen !

 

[gingerheid]

I saw a service from Brighton arrive at Cambridge this morning. I think it the first one I have seen !

I have two chances a week to try and catch one, and I want to do it just to go through the canal tunnels even though it doesn't make sense in terms of time (and risk of being dumped at Finsbury Park!). Hopefully one day; just got back to Cambridge to see that one is about to leave the other way.

We've never got back to the dizzying 10/18 trains we saw one day in the first week, but we're regularly at almost half the trains!

Edit: Wait. What happened to the world? Yesterday I saw an IEP at Hitchin. But nobody posted that. We're all posting about the wonder of seeing timetabled trains operating to schedule

 

[sefton]

All my claims since then shambles began have been accepted and paid.

There are quite a few of them as well.

All those which are a straightforward A to B season ticket claims have been paid, but all of those which involved a second ticket from St Pancras on a through train have been paid (random) incorrect amounts.

This has been despite explaining in simple terms that the journey involved two tickets and photos of both. Resubmitting them with a repeat explanation and the calculation of how much I should have received now they have agreed the delay has worked so far.

 

[Bromley boy]

Are we not allowed to go home to our families ? Can I have tomorrow off, as I was booked on my roster, to go collect my kids from school or must I ask first ask permission from the each passenger at London Bridge first?

Needs must. I'm sure ASLEF will be able to negotiate some handsome anti-social working payment.

Unbelievable!

If people are not rostered to work they cannot be forced to work. Perhaps it’s news to @The Box Photter but slavery has long since been abolished in this country.

 

[The Box Photter]

Unbelievable!

If people are not rostered to work they cannot be forced to work. Perhaps it’s news to @The Box Photter but slavery has long since been abolished in this country.

Just for the record, I'm not advocating slavery. I'm suggesting a means to keep the service running. There seems to be an over-willingness to take offence if anyone suggests that train drivers be asked to display some flexibility. I wasn't suggesting forced labour, or some kind of train driver gulag where the poor souls are prevented from communicating with the outside world or going home to their families.

There are plenty of jobs that involve working away from home and living out of a suitcase for extended periods (some might say that the recent Thameslink omnishambles has resulted in some passengers being forced to consider such actions).

I'd suggest you might want to adjust your attitude, since it demonstrates perfectly the antipathy exhibited by many who allegedly work in the rail industry towards the people who pay their salaries.

 

[Bromley boy]

There seems to be an over-willingness to take offence if anyone suggests that train drivers be asked to display some flexibility.

Flexibility?

I finished work at 0100 this morning and am back in at 0600 on Sunday (Sundays inside, so no additional £££ for this).

I don’t think there’s a time of day or night I haven’t driven a train in the last 12 months, including weekends and public holidays.

I knew that when I signed up, of course, but the quid pro quo is that I cannot be compelled to work on rostered days off unless I wish to.

I wasn't suggesting forced labour, or some kind of train driver gulag where the poor souls are prevented from communicating with the outside world or going home to their families.

I’m not sure that being holled up in hotels is so far away from that! “Needs must” is an inadequate answer to the driver above who had planned to spend time with his family on a rostered day off.

There are plenty of jobs that involve working away from home and living out of a suitcase for extended periods (some might say that the recent Thameslink omnishambles has resulted in some passengers being forced to consider such actions).

That’s regrettable, of course, but hardly down to the drivers.

I'd suggest you might want to adjust your attitude, since it demonstrates perfectly the antipathy exhibited by many who allegedly work in the rail industry towards the people who pay their salaries.

Those “people” being TOCs like Thameslink which has failed to employ enough drivers and, despite years in the planning, has failed to ensure sufficient drivers were trained to drive the service they have launched.

They knew this and still launched it!

To be clear, I agree that your ire is completely justified in relation to Thameslink, but please direct it appropriately!

 

[Failed Unit]

Flexibility?

I finished work at 0100 this morning and am back in at 0600 on Sunday (Sundays inside, so no additional £££ for this).

I don’t think there’s a time of day or night I haven’t driven a train in the last 12 months, including weekends and public holidays.

I knew that when I signed up, of course, but the quid pro quo is that I cannot be compelled to work on rostered days off unless I wish to.



I’m not sure that being holled up in hotels is so far away from that! “Needs must” is an inadequate answer to the driver above who had planned to spend time with his family on a rostered day off.



That’s regrettable, of course, but hardly down to the drivers.



Those “people” being TOCs like Thameslink which has failed to employ enough drivers and, despite years in the planning, has failed to ensure sufficient drivers were trained to drive the service they have launched.

They knew this and still launched it!

To be clear, I agree that your ire is completely justified in relation to Thameslink, but please direct it appropriately!

Hold everything

GTR didn’t know as Network rail didn’t provide a timetable until 3 weeks before.

Why would you train / recruit drivers until you see the final timetable?

I will get my coat....

 

[jon0844]

Edit: Wait. What happened to the world? Yesterday I saw an IEP at Hitchin. But nobody posted that. We're all posting about the wonder of seeing timetabled trains operating to schedule

Me: Today I saw an IEP at Hitchin, aliens landed in Stevenage, Trump was impeached and May decided to ditch Brexit. Oh and the Horsham train ran.

Other person: Incredible! You sure it definitely ran?

Just for the record, I'm not advocating slavery. I'm suggesting a means to keep the service running. There seems to be an over-willingness to take offence if anyone suggests that train drivers be asked to display some flexibility. I wasn't suggesting forced labour, or some kind of train driver gulag where the poor souls are prevented from communicating with the outside world or going home to their families.

There are plenty of jobs that involve working away from home and living out of a suitcase for extended periods (some might say that the recent Thameslink omnishambles has resulted in some passengers being forced to consider such actions).

I'd suggest you might want to adjust your attitude, since it demonstrates perfectly the antipathy exhibited by many who allegedly work in the rail industry towards the people who pay their salaries.

By all means negotiate with the unions to offer a mutually acceptable incentive to stay in a hotel but you can't force people to do anything. And I can see why a driver won't wish to do something purely out of goodwill, as they'll either be expected to do it 'for free' later on OR management will use it against them in future negotiations by saying 'but they were willing to do this for free...'.

Network Rail is funding a lot of the replacement buses, and possibly the taxis too. We've had trains late out in the morning because drivers have to arrive by taxi (early trains cancelled, or last trains cancelled the night before) so offering overnight accommodation isn't a terrible idea if it benefits the driver, but I doubt you're going to get many offering to stay away from home for a while without a decent incentive. As such, I can see that just cancelling a service would be considered cheaper.

 

[ComUtoR]

Just for the record, I'm not advocating slavery. I'm suggesting a means to keep the service running. There seems to be an over-willingness to take offence if anyone suggests that train drivers be asked to display some flexibility.

There is flexibility and there is beyond what your expected to do. What you want is for employees to go beyond their terms and conditions and bend over backwards to serve an ungrateful public, at the drop of a hat and purely to solve an issue that was not their making.

or going home to their families.

You suggested they stay in hotels close to the station. How would that not be staying away from families. I start work at x and go home at y. My employer has a responsibility to get me back to my depot at the end of my shift. Why would I need to go and stay in a hotel when I need to be out piloting, other than a residential stay ?

There are plenty of jobs that involve working away from home and living out of a suitcase for extended periods (some might say that the recent Thameslink omnishambles has resulted in some passengers being forced to consider such actions).

There are many jobs that do many things. That is their job, not mine. Why oh why must I continue to work above and beyond. Why can't I just do my job, as required ?

I'd suggest you might want to adjust your attitude, since it demonstrates perfectly the antipathy exhibited by many who allegedly work in the rail industry towards the people who pay their salaries.

You don't pay my wages.

 

[NorthKent1989]

It won't be a Thameslink service, it'll be Southern. They were entered with the incorrect operator code when the post May timetable data was added, and haven't been fixed.

It causes minor confusion at stations where display boards will say they're Thameslink but not, and manual announcers sometimes pause when reading it e.g. "platform blah for the 10.20, <pause>, err service to blah"

I suppose it's not a massive thing but it not being fixed just adds to that quirky Thameslink charm everyone loves.

It’s very misleading but it’s the first time I’ve been aware of a fast Epsom train from London Bridge regardless which is handy I guess you learn something new everyday.

Didn’t West Croydon used to have fast trains years ago in the 90s?

 

[NorthKent1989]

Thameslink should have a serious rethink, would it be possible to even risk the timetable being perverted to pre May 20th, obviously not now but in December.

It’ll be risky and it will annoy a lot of people but can this really go on much longer, I had hoped this would be resolved by now but there are still “teething troubles”

 

[Verulamius]

Tonight there was the strange sight of the late running 5.54 from London Bridge to Bedford passing through platform 9. It did not stop, presumably because class 700 do not have the relevant rights for platform 9?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W64558/2018/06/22/advanced

 

[The Box Photter]

Flexibility?

I finished work at 0100 this morning and am back in at 0600 on Sunday (Sundays inside, so no additional £££ for this).

I don’t think there’s a time of day or night I haven’t driven a train in the last 12 months, including weekends and public holidays.

I knew that when I signed up, of course, but the quid pro quo is that I cannot be compelled to work on rostered days off unless I wish to.



I’m not sure that being holled up in hotels is so far away from that! “Needs must” is an inadequate answer to the driver above who had planned to spend time with his family on a rostered day off.



That’s regrettable, of course, but hardly down to the drivers.



Those “people” being TOCs like Thameslink which has failed to employ enough drivers and, despite years in the planning, has failed to ensure sufficient drivers were trained to drive the service they have launched.

They knew this and still launched it!

To be clear, I agree that your ire is completely justified in relation to Thameslink, but please direct it appropriately!

Point well made, and understood. But actually, the only place the GTR driver's wages (and everyone else at GTR) comes from is from the passengers. Because we're either paying the fares or paying our taxes (and probably both). So unless the CEO of whichever TOC you work for pays you from his/her own personal fortune, your last point is wrong.

Even if you drive freight, the customer who's goods you are transporting is footing the bill.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Pretty quiet on the 0718 off SAC today (folk scared off - Friday effect - glorious weather)

Even saw a northbound Cambridge on the boards at STP this evening. There is hope.

 

[bramling]

Point well made, and understood. But actually, the only place the GTR driver's wages (and everyone else at GTR) comes from is from the passengers. Because we're either paying the fares or paying our taxes (and probably both). So unless the CEO of whichever TOC you work for pays you from his/her own personal fortune, your last point is wrong.

Even if you drive freight, the customer who's goods you are transporting is footing the bill.

At the end of the day the problem is quite simply there aren’t enough drivers. Whether they didn’t or couldn’t resource enough is a question which will come out in the wash no doubt, but it’s difficult to see how it couple be the latter given how many years they had to plan for this. All this talk about mismatches is to me a smokescreen, if they haven’t got drivers trained to run a timetable then they haven’t got enough - end of. I don’t think this is a driver flexibility issue - they are more than entitled to come in and do what they are contracted to do, in fact it’s quite likely most are fed up with the uncertainty, messing around and late finishes as much as everyone else.

There is a but, however. Once again my train in was full of a particularly rowdy bunch of drivers travelling pass. It certainly does not impress passengers to be travelling on a train with people behaving worse than some schoolchildren do, and it does not sound good at all to hear things like “I can’t wait to make the phone call later when I refuse to pick up” or “I got out of a whole first half of work because the train I was going pass on was packed and I told them it was too full to board”. This really isn’t impressive at all, and whilst one sympathises with the complete break-down of GTR’s operation, at the end of the day this sort of behaviour really lets the grade down IMO. At the very least this sort of talk should be confined to the messroom, and it’s not on to treat travelling pass on a busy train as some kind of messroom. Apart from anything else, were someone to secretly film on a mobile phone and it went to management, this could quite easily be seen as bringing the company into disrepute, assuming GTR could afford to let anyone go of course!

 

[bramling]

Pretty quiet on the 0718 off SAC today (folk scared off - Friday effect - glorious weather)

Even saw a northbound Cambridge on the boards at STP this evening. There is hope.

GN was up the wall around midday due to a line side fire near Baldock, which would have added half an hour to any core trains were they running. My train was on time, but got tangled up around Finsbury Park and lost 10 minutes there. Now on one of the 365 evening Pullman services, 100% success rate on this all week, albeit delayed due to extra stops on two evenings. Some pretty hefty delays on many core services right through the day however, and the way delays are transmitting and multiplying really does not bode well for the longer term - and this is on a railway which is rather emptier than its meant to be.

I see there’s now further Thameslink delays due to some kind of fatality incident on the southern region. Once again I’m glad I’m on a service originating from King’s Cross. Politically they are going to have to adjust things to provide that all day - commuters are really starting to cotton on to this reality now, and the political pressure will eventually be too much to overlook.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I am advised by a retired mate (pretty senior - done most things , started off as a driver) , that there is a series of GTR blokes on the northbound at East Croydon , who talk to arriving drivers and ask "are you OK for "x" route) , smacks of outdoor supervision (fair enough) , but a bit of lacking of an organised resource and delivery plan.

 

[jon0844]

I have mentioned before that a small number of drivers have decided it okay to help allow things to run poorly, but if it's any consolation the majority of drivers are going the extra mile to try and keep things running.

I suspect there is some discomfort amongst drivers over this, as some are quite militant and others worried about being seen as 'sellouts' by offering to help.

It is inevitable though, but the circumstances I am not sure management will want to rock the boat any more than the CEO would dare call out the DfT. Without a video of what people saw/heard it will be in everyone's interest to pretend it didn't happen.

I get the impression that any 'them and us' feelings of the past have begun to grow in the last month.

 

[bramling]

I am advised by a retired mate (pretty senior - done most things , started off as a driver) , that there is a series of GTR blokes on the northbound at East Croydon , who talk to arriving drivers and ask "are you OK for "x" route) , smacks of outdoor supervision (fair enough) , but a bit of lacking of an organised resource and delivery plan.

To be fair, I suspect the same will be happening at Latimer Road from tomorrow with the SSR resignalling - just that LU will have made sure they had enough drivers to make it work!

 

[sefton]

Without a video of what people saw/heard it will be in everyone's interest to pretend it didn't happen.

That should be easy enough to organise as there are a bunch who behave like that on my train most mornings. I am sure the tabloid media would be interested in buying it.

 

[gingerheid]

I was on a London - Cambridge fast on Thursday that was driven by one driver to Hitchin (where it wasn't timetabled to stop) and then another to Cambridge, and which had at least two drivers travelling as passengers.

I know nothing about operating a railway, so this is an ill informed rough guess. But I'm going to speculate that there's some kind of poor management / planning gone on there and that an ideal world would have put one of them in each of several trains. If whoever organised had had to also organise hotels for them heaven knows what would have happened.

 

[gingerheid]

Me: Today I saw an IEP at Hitchin,

Nice.

aliens landed in Stevenage,

I always thought Stevenage was a bit strange.

Trump was impeached

About time; it was always coming.

May decided to ditch Brexit.

Glad she saw sense.

Oh and the Horsham train ran.

Let me smell that bottle. You've put far too much in that again.

On a more positive note; I spoke too soon earlier. The first week of my delay repay turned up today