Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[johnb]

I suspect they'll still put in more than 2 toilets on a 12-car train, if only because they'd be filled up and out of use pretty quickly otherwise.

Yezbut the theory is they can put fewer disabled toilets and more standard toilets, which take up less seating space, if the train is a single unit.

I realise this is going back to when some 319s had the lapdanc, sorry, cafe area - but half a carriage reserved for a small shop serving basic refreshments and some toilets seems like a sensible move when these trains serve many areas that are used by leisure travellers and tourists alike.

Not gonna work - imagine the carnage at KXSP, Paddington and Blackfriars in the peak when a rush-hour queue of people realise they're standing outside the buffet door...

Alternatively, what about a carriage with fold-up seats in a certain area that can be used for different purposes; standing room on morning/evening commutes and an area where a trolley can be set up for refreshments at other times. Perhaps even allow bikes in on off-peak services too.

Silly idea or actually quite clever?!

That's much more achievable. The 377s actually pretty much have such an area... the problem is that, on trains where loadings are low enough that putting a trolley there would be do-able, it probably wouldn't make any money :roll:

Re

 

[jon0844]

If a 4-car train has 2 toilets, a 4x3 would have six toilets.

Now they won't be able to have just 2 on a 12-car, so I'd imagine there would be at least 4. Not a major saving, especially if there's now the need to empty the retention tanks a lot more frequently.

As for the trolley, well it won't be possible for it to be that well stocked because of the size - but leisure travellers are more likely to want to buy a tea/coffee or soft drink on a long journey (perhaps it would be used only in the summer months?). There's no reason not to push the trolley through the train, if the loadings are light.

FCC scrapped the remaining trolleys in 2006 but I am sure they could bring them back if they got a company to provide the service free and keep the majority of the profit as payment (and giving a small commission to FCC). I'm surprised they haven't done this already - I always thought the trolleys did quite good business but there were contractual issues that saw it ending, not lack of custom.

 

[Aictos]

FCC scrapped the remaining trolleys in 2006 but I am sure they could bring them back if they got a company to provide the service free and keep the majority of the profit as payment (and giving a small commission to FCC). I'm surprised they haven't done this already - I always thought the trolleys did quite good business but there were contractual issues that saw it ending, not lack of custom.

I was under the believe that it was cancelled due to the provider not being able to meet FCC requirements and now the standard reply seems to be that it won't be coming back ever!

The only time one could be used would be during the off peak during the week and during weekends as during the peaks, a RPI couldn't get though never mind a trolley service!

I wouldn't mind the telephones being refitted to the 365s as the stuff is still there more or less and the first class area refurbished with the curtains and better seating.

 

[jon0844]

I presume there was the issue of needing two (or three) trolleys as well as overcrowding issues. The former can't be solved with the current rolling stock, the latter might be with the new timetabling?

For a 45-minute trip to Cambridge and (until recently with the works) ample shops at the station to buy refreshments, the trolley service probably didn't do so well. But it's naive to think it wouldn't do good business when you can get a train from Peterborough for a day trip to Brighton with the kids.

I bet if you brought a holdall and (illegally) walked through the train sellin drinks to passengers, you'd make money - especially on the current trains without aircon in the summer!!

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Update on units

Delivered units

377509 hasn't moved out of Bedford Cauldwell since it was deliveried last week. This is the first unit to be 'sat on' since delivery. I would hope they've used the time well and put the livery on it.

377510/511 have been AC testing all week which has gone well.

377512 has sat in Selhurst unmoved since it was deliveried on the 9/7.

'Missing units'

377506 was due to be deliveried on the 23/7 but this was cancelled due to the translator units derailing.

377503 hasn't been seen in awhile but was reported at Derby complete.

377513 was seen two months ago being assembled so we may hear about this unit in August.

Thanks to John from UKmodernEMU for some of the info.

As for the units in service, they've been bit crap lately but it seems when you has a 377/2 and a 377/5 you have some issuses. Last week they mixed the units up and had alot of issues, especially the DOO equipment which won't work cross sub-fleets. ie 377/2 cameras dont work on a 377/5 screen. This has been reported by alot of the drivers using the units.

Diagrams 601/602, 603/604, 610/611 & 614/615 will always see a 377 on it due to the fact these diagrams are attached to the southeastern/Kent services.

Now it seems the other 377 diagrams that keep to 377's are 605 (especially since 377509 delivery) and 608/609.

This leaves 606/607 & 612/613 as 319 '377' diagrams.

 

[johnb]

Delivered: "is sent from Derby to London"
Deliveried: "has its logo and vinyls removed"

Pedantic point I know, but relevant, given that the SN trains on Thameslink have actually been deliveried.

 

[westcoaster]

Update on units

Deliveried units

377509 hasn't moved out of Bedford Cauldwell since it was deliveried last week. This is the first unit to be 'sat on' since delivery. I would hope they've used the time well and put the livery on it.

no such luck still in all over plain livery, last time i saw it on thursday.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Delivered: "is sent from Derby to London"
Deliveried: "has its logo and vinyls removed"

Pedantic point I know, but relevant, given that the SN trains on Thameslink have actually been deliveried.

Does that mean the 377/5 are delivered unliveried units then?

no such luck still in all over plain livery, last time i saw it on thursday.

I had heard that only 377504 was outside on friday, can you confirm this?

I don't understand why they are sitting on a unit for? Sent it out for a few runs and see how it copes with Farringdon in the off peak. Least then the newer trained drivers can get some experience with the changeover which is causing so many problems. Ok yes I know its abit short notice for shifts and that but they should be doing something!

Maybe with the arrival of 377510/511 we'll see more happening. Especially as little over three weeks (25 days) we're supposed to see the completion of the upgrade to the BML so more than 11 377/5 can be in service at any one time. This limit could be the reason for 509 not coming out as FCC have 12 Electrostars.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

More info, this time from FCC themselves

377510 is due to be delivered to Bedford Cauldwell tomorrow (29th July) in exchange from 377206.

377506 is due to be delivered to Selhurst on Friday (31st July).

377511 is expected to be delivered to Cauldwell on Tuesday (4th August).

Both Bombardier and the SDO beacon are investigation the interferrance experienced at St Pancras International and Farringdon. A patch for the 377's is expected to be tested from next week.

 

[jon0844]

Bloody hell, these trains must have more software patches than Windows!

Will the update give the drivers IE 8, faster graphics and better playback of HD video?!

 

[91101]

No - it delivers streaming audio, gotta let those drivers listen to Galaxy whilst they are topping a ton on the MML!

 

[jon0844]

Which of course no driver would ever do, any more than a 313 on a fast line on the ECML doing almost a ton - or a GNER train having done around 140mph when they 'can't' go beyond 125mph!!

(I recently measured a 365 and my phone showed it reaching exactly 100.00mph late night when it was on the fast - a speed it never exceeded at any point. Are they speed limited? And if so, how the hell did someone managed to calibrate it so accurately?)

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Bloody hell, these trains must have more software patches than Windows!

Will the update give the drivers IE 8, faster graphics and better playback of HD video?!

Nah they're still too busy to sort out the Farringdon announcement error!

Hopefully by the time all the 377/2 go back they will atleast change power and open the doors correctly!

To be fair tho Windows had more testing!

 

[jon0844]

I wouldn't be rushing to put Bombardier OS on my computer anytime soon! I'd probably lose use of my keyboard and the graphics card would suddenly be unable to communicate with the monitor.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

I wouldn't be rushing to put Bombardier OS on my computer anytime soon! I'd probably lose use of my keyboard and the graphics card would suddenly be unable to communicate with the monitor.

and you'd never be able to swap power points.......

 

[jon0844]

And if I placed my order for it now, I'd be lucky to get it delivered by 2015! And then it would be broken.

My God, Bombardier is actually Dell.

 

[Aictos]

Which of course no driver would ever do, any more than a 313 on a fast line on the ECML doing almost a ton - or a GNER train having done around 140mph when they 'can't' go beyond 125mph!!

(I recently measured a 365 and my phone showed it reaching exactly 100.00mph late night when it was on the fast - a speed it never exceeded at any point. Are they speed limited? And if so, how the hell did someone managed to calibrate it so accurately?)

365s do have a speed limiter on them, they can go faster if needed but the limiter kills off any chance of this ever happening although it has been reported that some units had been logged at speeds HS1 would be proud of of course this is sadly due to defective trackside equipment.

 

[westcoaster]

377510 has been delivered to cauldwell this afternoon. Seen en route.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

377510 has been delivered to cauldwell this afternoon. Seen en route.

It went to Cauldwell as 5Z70.

Earlier on 377207/208 returned to Selhurst I'm told (unit number came from the computer tracking system which means theres a chance its wrong, last week it got a 4 car mixed up and decleared it a 12 car!!).

377209 and 377213 were in service this afternoon along side all the 377/5's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It went to Cauldwell as 5Z70.

Earlier on 377207/208 returned to Selhurst I'm told (unit number came from the computer tracking system which means theres a chance its wrong, last week it got a 4 car mixed up and decleared it a 12 car!!).

377209 and 377213 were in service this afternoon along side all the 377/5's.

Qouting myself here, this could be confusing for a blond!

377206/207/208 returned to Selhurst as a 12 car leaving FCC with 377209/213 for now.

In return for the 3 Southern units FCC got 377510 which made its passenger debut today and even had a solo run!

That leaves 377511/512 at Selhurst and Ive been informed by Frank from the Electrostars group that 377513 is currently en route to Selhurst.

377511 is still expected at Cauldwell on Tuesday and is likely to be in service on wednesday due to FCC only having 10 377's putting even more pressure on the few spare trains they have. Until 377511 is put into service FCC TL have a grand total of 2 spare trains.

Seem 377506 has gone missing again.....


2351: Update for you all, just been informed 511/512 have just departed Victoria on testing from a driver there.

 

[paul1609]

It went to Cauldwell as 5Z70.

Earlier on 377207/208 returned to Selhurst I'm told (unit number came from the computer tracking system which means theres a chance its wrong, last week it got a 4 car mixed up and decleared it a 12 car!!).

377209 and 377213 were in service this afternoon along side all the 377/5's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Qouting myself here, this could be confusing for a blond!

377206/207/208 returned to Selhurst as a 12 car leaving FCC with 377209/213 for now.

In return for the 3 Southern units FCC got 377510 which made its passenger debut today and even had a solo run!

That leaves 377511/512 at Selhurst and Ive been informed by Frank from the Electrostars group that 377513 is currently en route to Selhurst.

377511 is still expected at Cauldwell on Tuesday and is likely to be in service on wednesday due to FCC only having 10 377's putting even more pressure on the few spare trains they have. Until 377511 is put into service FCC TL have a grand total of 2 spare trains.

Seem 377506 has gone missing again.....


2351: Update for you all, just been informed 511/512 have just departed Victoria on testing from a driver there.

Wasnt 377506 derailed last week leaving derby?

 

[Edvid]

Yes it was.

Now that Southern have all but 2 of their 377/2s back, can we soon expect London Midland to get some of their 350/1s back as well? Or will they be transferred in one 'lump' once (377)209/213 are repatriated - whenever that is?

On the infrastructure side, new documents related to the reconstruction of London Blackfriars have been published.

 

[westcoaster]

377501 is at cauldwell walk having vinyls applied. Will probley be in full livery for monday ?

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Since I posted that I found out what happened to 377506.

Seems last week when it was being shunted up to the translator wagons, the wagons derailed and damaged one of the front ends of 506 so we can't expect the unit any time soon now.

Will be interesting to see an 8 car 377/5 in full livery but it does beg the question why now? FCC have until this week been runing 11 Electrostar diagrams with 377's out of 15. Then this week since they got 377510 they've gone back to doing only 9 diagrams and leaving a unit at Cauldwell putting more pressure on the spare 319's. Now it seems they want to put a vinyl on a unit. Why the hell didnt they do this with 509 when it sat at Cauldwell for a week before being put in service rather than using the fleet? Or did they just want to run the 377/2 to max and keep the 377/5 as fresh as possible?

As for that document, it does make a few errors about Blackfriars. It does have partial wheelchair access, southbound only. In fact southbound has the two types of wheelchairs ramps FCC currently use where as the northbound only has a 377 ramp tho it can't be used. Seems they missed that and didn't count some of the doors correctly.

 

[thelem]

377501 was going around in FCC vinyls today, presumably applied over the
weekend. This is the seconds unit to be fully branded, following 377502 at the
end of May.

Edit: I posted this to multiple groups without reading the above two posts. It wasn't paired with 502 today though, so no 8-car branding yet.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

377501 was going around in FCC vinyls today, presumably applied over the
weekend. This is the seconds unit to be fully branded, following 377502 at the
end of May.

Edit: I posted this to multiple groups without reading the above two posts. It wasn't paired with 502 today though, so no 8-car branding yet.

I can't wait to see it as an 8 car. Should look good but I wont see my unit till next week due to be on nights

Good news however is 377506 is being made ready for its jounery to Selhurst. Seems the issue last week wasn't as bad as I'd heard. And as Im on nights should be able to track the unit which is due to leave Derby at 1945 and arrive at Selhurst 0048.

Hmmm Bombardier seems to be making up for lost time. 3 units delivered last month and one already for August. Fingers crossed for tomorrows 377511 move to Cauldwell.

 

[jon0844]

Hmmm Bombardier seems to be making up for lost time. 3 units delivered last month and one already for August. Fingers crossed for tomorrows 377511 move to Cauldwell.

Bombardier + making up for lost time = many more faults in the making?

 

[Edvid]

Seems rather likely at least until the fleet is bulked up again. Speaking of which, 506 made it to Selhurst so just over half the /5s have been released from Derby and those currently remaining are 503/514-523. Even considering how KO0 has gone (pax-carrying /5s still in single fiugres) so far I'm thankful we weren't in LOROL's position.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Bombardier + making up for lost time = many more faults in the making?

Cant be that many more faults left can there? Have you seen the workmanship of the 377/5?

Oh and 377516 is due to head for Selhurst on friday night. That will be the 13th unit.

Looks like Network Rail's deadline of the 20th of this month for the BML upgrade isn't under much pressure tho! That said I recently found out which substations where supposed to have been upgrade for KO0 (and weren't). They are Keymer Junction, Ouse Valley, Haywards Heath, Three Bridges and Balcombe Tunnel.

Even if 377511 was delivered today (and Ive not heard if it has) then FCC would be back upto the limit of 11 Electrostars agin. Tho 9 of them being there own.

 

[Edvid]

Richard Howe reported a 12-car formation consisting of 511+207+208 heading north through Tulse Hill earlier today. Did they go to Bedford?

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Richard Howe reported a 12-car formation consisting of 511+207+208 heading north through Tulse Hill earlier today. Did they go to Bedford?

Im still awaiting futher information on this. Heard nothing tho it was reported 206 was heading back to FCC and 511 was supposed to have gone north yesterday.

377511 was out last night however on AC testing so its possible that the unit passed its comissioning early this morning. That would make 13 Electrostars 207/208/209/213/501/502/504/505/507/508/509/510/511. This would give FCC two 'spare' Electrostars and maybe we'll see a speeding up of the viyals being applied along side extra driver training.

377512/513/506 are at Selhurst with 516 expected to join them in the early hours of saturday morning.