Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[Tom C]

A 12-car 375 formation in London Blackfriars - well I'll be damned! What was it doing there?

375's regularly use Blackfriars on ECS runs from Cannon Street to Victoria reversing in Blackfriars then going down to Loughborough Junction.

Was much better when nearly all the CST-VIC runs were 400 stock

 

[mackenzie_blu]

I love these 202 shots. problem with Blackfriars is digicams hate the lighting in there as you can tell from my image. Or is it just my digicam?

One thing Id say Tom is that they dont reverse at Blackfriars at all mate. They reverse in the siding roads outside the station and don't come into the station. But its only after the AM peak and before the PM peak that the 375s can be seen from Blackfriars. Units go to Cannon Street and Victoria, theres a set of empties to either.

Wonder where these units will go post D1C/KO0 as the roads they currently park are going soon.

 

[asylumxl]

I saw the 12 car train go over the bridge in Elephant and Castle. Also i noticed at Luton stations they now have wheelchair ramps out for the 377s

 

[Julian G]

While FCC have the WLL 377s , the 350s took over the MKC-ECR services today [cue loads of confusing passengers and half confused guards!]. 377s will still operate on the WLL as far north as Shepherd's Bush on the CLJ-SHPB shuttles

Here is a pix of a 350 arriving at my local shack
http://www.flickr.com/photos/juliang2006/3359766255/
*I didn't zoom in on the train as I wanted to have a picture of the 350 with the Earl's Court exhibition Centre

 

[Edvid]

I love these 202 shots.

Thanks. I tried to take the shots further north but my cameraphone was playing up a little and by the time I sorted it out the 319 couple blocked my view. In hindsight I'd have been better off on Platform 4 since I was heading north anyway, but in the end I'm still happy with the fruits of my labour, so to speak.

According to JKA 206+207 should be heading to Cauldwell Walk as I type this (5Z69 dep. Selhurst depot at 21+00).

Full list of Day 1 Contingency KO0 services by 377s now available on UKmodernEMU courtesy of Paul Elliott (I'm not including those I've already mentioned upthread):
2T07 0420 Bedford - Brighton
2T13 0600 Bedford - Brighton
2W12 0724 Brighton - Bedford
2T18 0836 Brighton - Bedford
1T27 1110 Bedford - Brighton
1T20 1134 Brighton - Bedford
1T29 1140 Bedford - Brighton
2T34 1207 Brighton - Bedford
2T36 1237 Brighton - Bedford
2T42 1407 Brighton - Bedford
1T39 1410 Bedford - Brighton [4-car]
2T47 1424 Bedford - Brighton [4-car]
2T49 1454 Bedford - Brighton
1T96 1704 Brighton - Bedford
2T56 1737 Brighton - Bedford

Above services are 8-car unless stated otherwise. On a personal note, I'm particularly happy about the 1737 since it's the first post-p.m. peak service to call at Luton Airport Parkway and rather overcrowded because it's only 4 cars at the moment.

 

[will1337]

Which day are the 377s starting on TL? I can't find the date looking through the thread or is it not known yet?

 

[Edvid]

The current driver training diagram this week may become a full service diagram on Thursday but in any case there are 10 377 diagrams (in 5 pairs) starting March 23.

 

[will1337]

Thanks, I was wondering as I was planning a trip along the Marsden Vale to get in 350s on the WLL, some new track and 377s on TL so I guess I'll be waiting a little while.

 

[Tom C]

One thing Id say Tom is that they dont reverse at Blackfriars at all mate. They reverse in the siding roads outside the station and don't come into the station. But its only after the AM peak and before the PM peak that the 375s can be seen from Blackfriars. Units go to Cannon Street and Victoria, theres a set of empties to either.

My bad, they do indeed use the carriage sidings just to the south of the station although on rare occasions 4 and 8 car 375's have made it into the platforms. Obviously the 12 cars cannot use the station with the current infrastructure as they would foul the crossovers.

2W12 0724 Brighton - Bedford

So the "new" trains will serve Herne Hill and Tulse Hill!

Didn't think we were worthy

 

[mackenzie_blu]

My bad, they do indeed use the carriage sidings just to the south of the station although on rare occasions 4 and 8 car 375's have made it into the platforms. Obviously the 12 cars cannot use the station with the current infrastructure as they would foul the crossovers.



So the "new" trains will serve Herne Hill and Tulse Hill!

Didn't think we were worthy

They are going going there because their isn't the paths for the peak services through London bridge for the next few years

Nice pictures Julian

 

[westcoaster]

They are going going there because their isn't the paths for the peak services through London bridge for the next few years

Nice pictures Julian

not quiet true all fcc services with the headcode 1W or 2W are bedford/brighton or vis versa via crystal palace or selhurst, it has been like this for years not just because of the tlp.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

not quiet true all fcc services with the headcode 1W or 2W are bedford/brighton or vis versa via crystal palace or selhurst, it has been like this for years not just because of the tlp.

I meant that fact during the peaks theres gaps in trains going to London Bridge but once the TLP is finished and we get our our platforms we should have a more regular peak service in and out of London Bridge.

I ended up visiting Moorgate on the way home tonight so took a few decent pictures. Heres the results. Got a decnt shot the the countdown board and it gies you an idea of the size of it!

 

[Edvid]

STOP PRESS: 377207 in service on the 0924 ex-Bedford right now - I'm in it!

As it happens, I got off the 0910 ex-Bedford at London Blackfriars and had a look at the departure board to see if the trial 1041 ex-Blackfriars service was running even if it was not in public use. I couldn't find it but I noticed a 1110 to HERNHSD and decided to head to London St Pancras to get a picture of the unit hoping it was a 377.

Before doing so I noticed the 1035 to Brighton (0924 ex-Bedford) was delayed by 7 minutes and counting, but I didn't bet on that service involving the aforementioned Electrostar at Farringdon! Changeover problems yet again were taking hold and some passengers were getting off as I got on then got off again to get a couple of pics. When I got on again the doors closed about 15 seconds later and we departed - I couldn't believe my luck.

Annoyingly, the doors took a long time to open at City Thameslink and London Blackfriars (as is the case at London Victoria if you catch my drift). The LED PIS only displayed the word 'Electrostar', then later a 'special' message about luggage but I don't know if that was also the case before it got to Farringdon. The driver (or someone else) made some manual announcements including the fact that we were on the first Class 377 FCC service. We were 25 down at London Bridge so after East Croydon (where I got off) it went fast to Brighton so many people had to get off too especially luggage-laden passengers heading for Gatwick, and believe me there were plenty.

Anyway, must head to the FCC wbechat today! (If only I'd waited another 15 minutes at Luton Airport Parkway...)

 

[mackenzie_blu]

STOP PRESS: 377207 in service on the 0924 ex-Bedford right now - I'm in it!

As it happens, I got off the 0910 ex-Bedford at London Blackfriars and had a look at the departure board to see if the trial 1041 ex-Blackfriars service was running even if it was not in public use. I couldn't find it but I noticed a 1110 to HERNHSD and decided to head to London St Pancras to get a picture of the unit hoping it was a 377.

Before doing so I noticed the 1035 to Brighton (0924 ex-Bedford) was delayed by 7 minutes and counting, but I didn't bet on that service involving the aforementioned Electrostar at Farringdon! Changeover problems yet again were taking hold and some passengers were getting off as I got on then got off again to get a couple of pics. When I got on again the doors closed about 15 seconds later and we departed - I couldn't believe my luck.

Annoyingly, the doors took a long time to open at City Thameslink and London Blackfriars (as is the case at London Victoria if you catch my drift). The LED PIS only displayed the word 'Electrostar', then later a 'special' message about luggage but I don't know if that was also the case before it got to Farringdon. The driver (or someone else) made some manual announcements including the fact that we were on the first Class 377 FCC service. We were 25 down at London Bridge so after East Croydon (where I got off) it went fast to Brighton so many people had to get off too especially luggage-laden passengers heading for Gatwick, and believe me there were plenty.

Anyway, must head to the FCC wbechat today! (If only I'd waited another 15 minutes at Luton Airport Parkway...)

Well well David, you must have seen me. 377207 was running as 2T27 which was the 1035 service from Blackfriars. It arrived at farringdon some 6mins down but due to issues changing power source departed some 22mins late. I was with the driver awaiting to take the service and was the one who informed him that he was about to drive the first 377 in passanger service on Thameslink.

I therefore didnt get to dispatch the first Electrostar on Thameslink but I did however get to do a first. I had to give the driver a stop order so Im the first person to do a stop order for a 377 on the Thameslink network.

I did manage to get some pictures of the unit at Blackfriars but also got to ride it home on its first northbound jounery and snapped it at St Pancras. I must say that we experienced door problems with all doors coming as out of use before finally being in use for customers. I think this is before all training has been on actually driving and rarely have drivers had to open doors. I only noticed after I took pictures that altho the front of the train said Bedford, the side was displaying St Albans. Que some very confused and crowded platforms. Also Bombarbier and Network Rail have staff onboard.

Note as well they weren't expecting the 377s to be in service till monday.

**More information**

The unit ran as 2T27 from Bedford to Brighton with the following pattern, note the times in brackets are the timetabled time with passing only points in italics

Bedford (0924) 0929, Bedford South Junction (0926) 0930, Filtwick (0937) 0938, Harlington (0937) 0943, Leagrave (0942) 0948, Luton (0948 ) 0951, Luton Airport Parkway (0950) no time recorded, Harpenden (0956) 0959, St Albans (1004) 1005, passing through not calling at - Hendon (1014) 1016, West Hampstead (1016) 1018, Carlton Road Junction (1018 ) 1019, Kentish Town (1019) 1021, St Pancras International (1024) 1030, Farringdon (1029) a. 1034 d. 1051, City Thameslink (1032) 1055, Blackfriars (1035) 1059, London Bridge (1042) 1107, Bricklayers Arms Junction (1045) 1111, Sydenham (1050) 1115, Norwood Junction (1052) 1117, Windmill bridge Junction (1053) 1119, East Croydon (1055) 1125, Purley (1059) 1128, Stoats nest Junction (1100) 1130, Earlswood (1105) 1134, Gatwick Airport (1111) no info, Three Bridges (1115) no info, Balcombe Tunnel junction (1118 ) no info, Haywards Heath (1127) no info, Keymer Junction (1131) no info, Preston Park (1143) no info, Brighton (1149) 1259.

Please note that time from Gatwick Airport south are estimated departure times as I couldn't access the service after it got to Brighton so using the P2 system estimates.

Thanks to Juliang to some updated info especially the Brighton arrival time.

 

[73110]

They must be the first pics of one in service with paying passengers on it.

 

[Edvid]

I took some before he did, but his are of better quality and of course he published his first. It's the first time I've seen good quality pics of a 377 in London St Pancras.

On a related subject, I also snapped 350118 in East Croydon today after travelling on 350114 from there to Harrow & Wealdstone yesterday.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

They must be the first pics of one in service with paying passengers on it.

Im hoping so

I also had to do the first stop order on them so may be the two first in one day.

Nice pictures!

Im really surprised my St Pancras International one came out so well. Let the camera do its thing on auto and it didnt let me down!

when I was checking which train to get home someone came over the radio to say it was the 377 returning so jumped at the change. Nearly went to Bedford on it to try it out!

Now can I get all 8 'painted number' units done?

 

[Edvid]

I've only just noticed that the Southern decals have been removed. Also, it might be worth adding that the preceding 377 formation in front after East Croydon was a Brighton Express, so in effect there were two of them back to back today.

How many 377/2s have been on TL metals now? So far I think we've had 201, 202, 207 , 208, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214 and maybe 215.

 

[Tom C]

Saw it at City......

Took an absolute age for the doors to release. Not sure that is going to be very good to clear the trains as quickly as possible, perhaps a couple of minutes needed to be built into the timetable for this problem as I can see it starting to show cracks in the intensive timetable.

The PIS on the outside at least had Bedford but strangly the top line on the screens changed to Farringdon with a full calling pattern below. Is this a new software upgrade to show the next stop or a fault? Once the train left City the PIS reverted to Bedford.

I meant that fact during the peaks theres gaps in trains going to London Bridge but once the TLP is finished and we get our our platforms we should have a more regular peak service in and out of London Bridge.

In the morning peak trains to/from Brighton always run via Tulse Hill.

In the new timetable Elephant & Castle and Loughborough Junction lose their direct link to Croydon and Brighton which is a little short sighted and a step backwards to me as you always had a lot of regulars boarding there.

How many 377/2s have been on TL metals now? So far I think we've had 201, 202, 207 , 208, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214 and maybe 215

Fairly sure 206 went around the Sutton loop on Saturday. Might have been 208 but wasn't really interested until it actually stopped at Sutton Common.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Saw it at City......

Took an absolute age for the doors to release. Not sure that is going to be very good to clear the trains as quickly as possible, perhaps a couple of minutes needed to be built into the timetable for this problem as I can see it starting to show cracks in the intensive timetable.

The PIS on the outside at least had Bedford but strangly the top line on the screens changed to Farringdon with a full calling pattern below. Is this a new software upgrade to show the next stop or a fault? Once the train left City the PIS reverted to Bedford.



In the morning peak trains to/from Brighton always run via Tulse Hill.

In the new timetable Elephant & Castle and Loughborough Junction lose their direct link to Croydon and Brighton which is a little short sighted and a step backwards to me as you always had a lot of regulars boarding there.



Fairly sure 206 went around the Sutton loop on Saturday. Might have been 208 but wasn't really interested until it actually stopped at Sutton Common.

The problem I think is down to the fact the drivers haven't actually opened the doors its been all about driving the units upto now. yesterday was the first day and the teething trouble came through. Least this gives FCC engineering/fleet something to address before next week. I was on the train going south into City and I dont know if you were there then. the problem seems to be the drivers set the doors to all be locked out of use then he resets and finally opens the doors. Originally I though this might be the GPS but Farringdon & Blackfriars was the same unless it doesn't like TL stations as they haven't been programmed yet?

As for the CIS displays, they are gonna be an issue. When I got off at St Pancras the front of the unit showed Bedford (as did the back) but the side was showing St Albans, cue complete customer confusion and a filled platform. I rang SDC and told them and they logged it. Think this is more a case of accidently displays the next station as the destination. When they were on test I asked that question because I saw them have the Farringdon destination yet it was showing all stations to Bedford on the side. Seems the side and front displays can show seperate things for some reason.

The reason they run through Elephant etc in the peaks is because London Bridge doesn't have space for them. The long term plan is for this services to go to London Bridge come 2015 once London Bridge is rebuilt and we have our own platforms.

At the weekends Southern sends Electrostars around the loop, in fact it does the same in early morning and I think late evening. The plan is for FCC never to run the Electrostars around unless theres major problems on the Brighton line.

I forgot to mentioned that the Southern logos had been removed. Will try and get some pictures of this today. The head rest in first class have a FCC cover on tho. Will try to get a shot of that as well. Ive now completed a 377 timetable from the reporting number given out the other day. That should mean next week I know where the Electrostars are at any given time.

 

[westcoaster]

377's will be out during the night as well, iirc there will be two return trips to st pancras from bedford, I don't have the times to hand.and not sure if there is any running on the southern for them during the night ill have a look.

 

[73110]

Heard the last two units will be the pink/stripy ones and any passenger on board will be presented with a commemorative ticket to celebrate the occasion.

 

[Tom C]

The reason they run through Elephant etc in the peaks is because London Bridge doesn't have space for them. The long term plan is for this services to go to London Bridge come 2015 once London Bridge is rebuilt and we have our own platforms.

Thats correct, it is and always has been like that and this isn't as a result of the Thameslink programme.

At the weekends Southern sends Electrostars around the loop, in fact it does the same in early morning and I think late evening. The plan is for FCC never to run the Electrostars around unless theres major problems on the Brighton line.

Southern do not run around the Sutton loop on weekends and never have done.

The Southern service around the Sutton loop is Monday to Friday peak hours only with 6 trains from London Bridge to Wimbledon via Tooting which then continue down to Sutton where 4 continue to London Bridge via Carshalton and 2 continue to Victoria via West Croydon. In the evening there are 3 trains from LBG to LBG via WIM. At least one of the down trains is 8 x 377 and one of the up trains is 4 x 377 but the vast majority of the service is 455 with one each way as a 455+456.

As for 377's not going around the loop - Thank god for that, perhaps we might escape the mayhem when they start!

I assume by the Brighton line you mean via Tulse Hill, Crystal Palace or Norbury?. As there is already a 2W train booked to be 377 that shouldn't make a difference but I very much doubt that 377's will go beyond Streatham towards Wimbledon or Sutton and their is certainly no reason why they would do this as a result of disruption to the Brighton mainline.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Some more images of the Southern branded less 377207

Here's an image of the missing branding.

Also FCC have stuck stickers in every door way to try and get through to customers this isnt a Southern service. Although to be honest on each side of the doors would have been better idea.

I thought there was a Southern service around the loop at weekends? Must just have been an Electrostar on test then. Ive been on the 465/466 combo on my way to Tooting many a times

Well if the brighton mainline is completely screwed (ie East Croydon taken out again) then there's always the change they will go to the loop. Never say never.

 

[73110]

No photo's from Moorgate?

 

[westcoaster]

0924 ex bedford is a 377 again.

 

[Edvid]

Is it 207 again?

501 was dragged to Selhurst last night/this morning but 504 won't be rejoining the fleet until after March 23, so we're already 1 unit down on the finalised initial D1C KO0 fleet (2 units down on the fleet described in the FCC press release of March 5). And still none the wiser as to exactly when further 377/5s will begin to stream in, which of course require acceptance trials.

[MAIN EDIT 1: I see on Locoscene that someone has seen 206 in Bedford Carriage Sidings last night, so that's another to add to the list of TL 377/2 sightings.]
[MAIN EDIT 2: Oh, and the latest 319 to be fully (or partially?) overhauled/refreshed at Wolverton (368 ) is now heading back to Bedford. 217-220 are on their last SU diagrams today and will shortly head our way too.]

 

[class377man]

Slightly related, the last ever Southern 319 service has just arrived at Horsham (assuming it ran to timetable...) and the two units (219 and 220 I believe) will be handed over to FCC this evening.

One more train left out of Moorgate Thameslink, apparently formed of the two rainbow units.

 

[westcoaster]

the two night workings on the tl north are the 2210 and the 0210 from bedford and there corresponding return workings, also of note is that all trains will serve st p ll and not st p hl.

 

[Edvid]

Fuuny you should mention that, after joining the gensheet Yahoo Group earlier today I found this (courtesy of Richard Howe):

All of the trains to/from St Pancras International Low Level platforms (A+B) on Saturday 15th will NOT be running under single line working to/from Kentish Town but will be continuing/returning as E.C.S. to WH617 ground signal in Clerkenwell Tunnels. These are the crossovers immediately East of Kings Cross Thameslink station. An additional O.H.L.E. switching section was brought into use (three weeks ago I think) designed specifically to allow this to happen.

Although referring specifically to last Saturday there's no reason to believe the above scenario won't apply to further weekends and weeknights, though the MML platforms (1-4) will still be used if the Up/Down Moorgate lines are possessed north of the junction in the Clerkenwell Tunnels, which according to FCC sounds like the case tomorrow:

Late notice alteration: Owing to additional engineering work. Stopping services on the Bedford route will not now operate between Kentish Town and St Pancras International. Times of these services at other stations will be unchanged. Fast services will operate to/from St Pancras International as normal. Customers may use Northern Line services to travel between Kentish Town and St Pancras.

Note that prior to March 14, all semi-fast weekend and semi-fast/all-shacks weeknight FCC services used the MML platforms unless the core was kept open. All-shacks weekend FCC services have used the FCC platforms since last December.

I thought a new junction would be provided between the FCC platforms and Dock Jn North, whether or not it'll still happen or was even planned I don't know. A FCC presentation to the BCA in late 2008 mentioned that all weekend/weeknights FCC services from October 12 would use the FCC platforms during core route closures, although the MML platforms are still available should the normal cross-London service be sufficiently disrupted.

Finally, here's a list of cross-London service weekend dates.