Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[simon 777]

Fri 9th Jan first 377/5 now planned to leave Derby im hearing??? P.M ??????

Any i dears??????

 

[Edvid]

Still a case of wait and see - no other info at the moment (might still be Monday night if we're lucky). And you don't need to use nearly as many question marks next time

 

[David Sinnett]

What are the chances of getting at least one service of the 377 into Moorgate before the branch closes?
Has a 377 ever been to Moorgate?

 

[Edvid]

To the best of my knowledge three units have been into Moorgate.

201 and 208 were taken there on the first Thameslink route clearance test in late August 2004 since Govia were thinking of using Bedford Cauldwell as an 'outpost' for Selhurst at the time. 202 has been there twice - the first trip was another test and the second trip happened because it failed to change voltage at Farringdon.

As to whether another 377 will be taken into the Moorgate branch before it closes (they're now fully cleared for passenger services on the whole Thameslink network except platform 5 at Moorgate), I occasionally wonder whether any 377/5s will even go into passenger service at all before then!

 

[mackenzie_blu]

What are the chances of getting at least one service of the 377 into Moorgate before the branch closes?
Has a 377 ever been to Moorgate?

To be honest there isnt a likely chance of a 377 going to Moorgate unless theres a problem with the core of Thameslink. FCC want them on the Bedford-Brighton fasts only with no planned services for the Loop. The idea is that these are the flagship trains for the flagship route.

 

[class 313]

To be honest there isnt a likely chance of a 377 going to Moorgate unless theres a problem with the core of Thameslink. FCC want them on the Bedford-Brighton fasts only with no planned services for the Loop. The idea is that these are the flagship trains for the flagship route.

We all know what happens with specific classes destined for one route on Thameslink, just look at the: /4s, /3s, /0s...

 

[mackenzie_blu]

We all know what happens with specific classes destined for one route on Thameslink, just look at the: /4s, /3s, /0s...

Yer, they end up every where (tho Im glad as I got on one of the nice ex Southern units for the loop the other week!)

Look at whats having with the TLP branded units, tend to be doing the loop services when the loop isn't really going to benefit from TLP!

There is a difference with the 377s as they are the only trains that are able to serve certain stations (ie Barming I think) where because of SDO they HAVE to be put on the service as the 319s aren't able to run due to no SDO. Because of this they cant just stick the units on any service, they have to keep to certain diagrams to be able to run these units at the right place at the right time. That said before the 22nd March there isn't anything to stop them running around the loop in passanger service.

 

[Edvid]

Regarding your point on SDO, the services in question are as follows:

[Morning peak]
0609 Bearsted - Bedford
0623 Ashford International - Bedford
0729 Rochester - Bedford
[Evening peak]
1622 Bedford - Gillingham (Kent)
1646 Bedford - Ashford International
1700 Bedford - Gillingham (Kent)

All of the above will be in 8-car formation so only 6 377s are required for this purpose. Most (if not all) of the other 17 will be diagrammed for Bedford-Brighton and other services because there is no strict diagram demarcation between the service groups, as this document from UKmodernEMU will testify.

There is a greater variety of peak services than off-peak services, and such an additional peak service is Bedford - Sutton. Once the KO0 timetable begins you can add peak services like Bedford - Bromley South to the list, so 377s can easily be diagrammed anywhere even though some are required for the SER mainline services stated above, and courtesy of Robert Munster from UKmodernEMU, the KO0 timetable is available but only with departure times for London St Pancras and London Blackfriars.

By the way, the CD/RA indicators at St Albans and Luton are now operational. In addition, I have heard that two paths on Wednesday (today) and Friday have been booked from Litchurch Lane to Selhurst - presumably related to 377501.

 

[Edvid]

On another subject, FCC have just commenced the mini-refresh of their ex-NSR 319s, with 010 (to no longer be blue with yellow doors) now getting the treatment at Bedford Cauldwell. Out of 86 319s:

* 38 have been refreshed at the time of posting
* 2 are being refreshed
* 46 are still unrefreshed

 

[class 313]

On another subject, FCC have just commenced the mini-refresh of their ex-NSR 319s, with 010 (to no longer be blue with yellow doors) now getting the treatment at Bedford Cauldwell. Out of 86 319s:

* 38 have been refreshed at the time of posting
* 2 are being refreshed
* 46 are still unrefreshed

Is this when the /2s are going to lose their snug area?

 

[Edvid]

The /2s will all lose their 'snugs' by September. I thought that the mini-refresh would be done at Hornsey only but I can't say whether it'll all be done at Cauldwell or not.

 

[class 313]

The /2s will all lose their 'snugs' by September. I thought that the mini-refresh would be done at Hornsey only but I can't say whether it'll all be done at Cauldwell or not.

I must get in and try it out asap then.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

All of the above will be in 8-car formation so only 6 377s are required for this purpose. Most (if not all) of the other 17 will be diagrammed for Bedford-Brighton and other services because there is no strict diagram demarcation between the service groups, as this document from UKmodernEMU will testify.

There is a greater variety of peak services than off-peak services, and such an additional peak service is Bedford - Sutton. Once the KO0 timetable begins you can add peak services like Bedford - Bromley South to the list, so 377s can easily be diagrammed anywhere even though some are required for the SER mainline services stated above, and courtesy of Robert Munster from UKmodernEMU, the KO0 timetable is available but only with departure times for London St Pancras and London Blackfriars.

By the way, the CD/RA indicators at St Albans and Luton are now operational. In addition, I have heard that two paths on Wednesday (today) and Friday have been booked from Litchurch Lane to Selhurst - presumably related to 377501.

That first link doesn't work but I can only say what Ive heard from the company themselves internally.

Have to say that the second document has been really useful to see what changes are coming and even answer a question for us at work!

For anyone interested in the CD/RA the core stations (Blackfriars, City and I believe Farringdon) the system works but is not yet in use (where as stations like Luton its been in service for the last two months).

 

[Edvid]

Sorry about the duff link (presumably only members like myself can access that document, and even then only via the main UKmodernEMU site). I've attached a copy of the diagrams to this post.

Farringdon has DOO monitors so there are no CD/RA indicators there.

 

[class 313]

That first link doesn't work but I can only say what Ive heard from the company themselves internally.

Have to say that the second document has been really useful to see what changes are coming and even answer a question for us at work!

For anyone interested in the CD/RA the core stations (Blackfriars, City and I believe Farringdon) the system works but is not yet in use (where as stations like Luton its been in service for the last two months).

Why would Farringdon need CD/RA? Specially when its not manned all the time. Also has DOO screens as Edvid said.

 

[westcoaster]

3772xx running as 5z5x selhurst-kentish town this morning/afternoon, more driver training.

 

[Edvid]

So NSR have agreed to lend FCC another 377/2 then! Thanks to mackenzie_blu for these Electrostar pictures (including new TL test unit 214) and the following full diagrams:

5Z11 Selhurst to Kentish Town

Selhurst 11+15
Norwood Junction 11+17
Crystal Palace 11+23
Tulse Hill 11+35
Herne Hill 11+39
Loughborough Junction 11+42
Blackfriars 11+51
Farringdon 11+58
St Pancras International 12+01
Kentish Town 12+06


5Z12 Kentish Town to Herne Hill

Kentish Town 12+21
St Pancras International 12+30
Farringdon 12+36
Blackfriars 12+44
Loughborough Junction 12+53
Herne Hill 13+00

[N.B. Theoretically 501 should be dispatched from Derby tomorrow evening )) and apparently there are only 5 complete 377/5 coaches so far!]

 

[class 313]

So NSR have agreed to lend FCC another 377/2 then! Thanks to mackenzie_blu for these Electrostar pictures (including new TL test unit 214) and the following full diagrams:

5Z11 Selhurst to Kentish Town

Selhurst 11+15
Norwood Junction 11+17
Crystal Palace 11+23
Tulse Hill 11+35
Herne Hill 11+39
Loughborough Junction 11+42
Blackfriars 11+51
Farringdon 11+58
St Pancras International 12+01
Kentish Town 12+06


5Z12 Kentish Town to Herne Hill

Kentish Town 12+21
St Pancras International 12+30
Farringdon 12+36
Blackfriars 12+44
Loughborough Junction 12+53
Herne Hill 13+00

[N.B. Theoretically 501 should be dispatched from Derby tomorrow evening )) and apparently there are only 5 complete 377/5 coaches so far!]

Any times for the 377 move?

 

[Edvid]

'Fraid not. (I presume you mean 501)

 

[class 313]

'Fraid not. (I presume you mean 501)

Indeed I did.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

We all know what happens with specific classes destined for one route on Thameslink, just look at the: /4s, /3s, /0s...

There is an offical plan to seperate the 319 into two seperate fleets mainly do to the worry that first class around the loop will end up vandalised so the 319/4's are offical banned unless you have to cancel a train. If one of the /4's do run its supposed to be filled with Revenue staff!

Farringdon is to be manned more along with the other core stations as apart of TLP, FCC have employed a lot more people (including me) to do dispatching from core station as well as customer service. City Thameslink is due to be dispatching in the next couple of months. Tho Im still not 100% certain they are dispatching there as I did say but you never know. Remeber once TLP is finished we'll have our own Farringdon station with seperate entrances etc.

Glad you like the pictures, just happened to walk onto the platform as the 214 came in so grab a few images.

 

[class 313]

There is an offical plan to seperate the 319 into two seperate fleets mainly do to the worry that first class around the loop will end up vandalised so the 319/4's are offical banned unless you have to cancel a train. If one of the /4's do run its supposed to be filled with Revenue staff!

Farringdon is to be manned more along with the other core stations as apart of TLP, FCC have employed a lot more people (including me) to do dispatching from core station as well as customer service. City Thameslink is due to be dispatching in the next couple of months. Tho Im still not 100% certain they are dispatching there as I did say but you never know. Remeber once TLP is finished we'll have our own Farringdon station with seperate entrances etc.

Glad you like the pictures, just happened to walk onto the platform as the 214 came in so grab a few images.

Indeed some nice shots. I don't see why FCC did away with the City Flyer/Metro branding tbh.

 

[westcoaster]

377202 was on the said driver training diagram today, although i think it goes selhurst-kentish town-herne hill-kentish town- selhurst.

also 319215 failed yesterday in a plume of smoke at brighton, traction motors seized followed by the wheels. wwheel skate move to selhurst/bedford, maybe an early candidate for relivery removal of snug.

 

[Edvid]

I wonder if Southern are now providing random 377/2s rather than one particular unit - in which case it would be mildly intriguing that 202 was the chosen unit today especially since it was in passenger service this morning (8.02 London Bridge-Wimbledon-London Bridge). With Southern I hasten to add.

5Z11 and 5Z12 paths as per yesterday plus a 5Z13 path for which timings are unknown. Thanks to John Clausen and mackenzie_blu for the gen.

As for the smokin' 319/2, bloody hell! That's the second time in five days its been failed - perhaps you should update your signature!

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Here are the full pathing of the 377 as currently running. Also seems that services are provide by random spare 377 with 214, 202 and today 211 all running down the core.

Ive not got any timings for the 501 move but I will say this. Its expected this week in Bedford depot.



5Z11 Selhurst to Kentish Town

Selhurst 11:15
Norwood Junction 11:17
Crystal Palace 11:23
Tulse Hill 11:35
Herne Hill 11:39
Loughborough Junction 11:42
Blackfriars 11:51
Farringdon 11:58
St Pancras International 12:01
Kentish Town 12:06

5Z12 Kentish Town to Herne Hill

Kentish Town 12:21
St Pancras International 12:30
Farringdon 12:36
Blackfriars 12:44
Loughborough Junction 12:53
Herne Hill 13:00

5Z13 Herne Hill to Kentish Town

Herne Hill 13:22
Loughborough Junction 13:24
Elephant & Castle 13:28
Blackfriars 13:33
Farringdon 13:38
St Pancras International 13:42
Dock Junction North 13:45
Kentish Town 13:47

5Z14 Kentish Town to Selhurst

Kentish Town 14:06
Dock Junction North 14:09
St Pancras International 14:13
Farringdon 14:19
Blackfriars 14:25
Loughborough Junction 14:34
Herne Hill 14:37
Tulse Hill 14:41
Crystal Palace 14:43
Norwood Junction 14:59
Selhurst Depot 15:05

 

[Edvid]

In Cauldwell Walk this week? That would definitely brighten my day, but I thought each unit would be remain entirely within the care of NSR at Selhurst until commissioned,* from which point FCC could get their hands on them.

And thanks as always for the timings.

[* Apparently this should ideally take 6 days for each unit.]

 

[westcoaster]

the only way it will be in the depot is, if it will stop's off on its delivery run, i thought the units were being delivered straight to selhurst, but then again i suppose the comminnioning could take place at cauldwell but this is not going to happen if you ask me,

on a side note 010 still in blue and yellow (only saw one end though), anyone know the number off the other unit there having a mini refresh.

forgot to add the training runs are refreshers for drivers (6 months up) and also for ac/dc change over as some drivers did not get to do it because herne hill turnback was not open.

 

[Edvid]

They're not hanging about with the mini-refresh by the looks of things. Presumably the other 319 you mentioned is an ex-NSR unit - if so, might it be 215?

 

[westcoaster]

not 215 im afraid, 215 was sitting in cricklewood all day still on a wheel skate, word on the street is southern refused/ did not want to help fcc out so she is being skated all the way back to bedford from brighton.

 

[class 313]

not 215 im afraid, 215 was sitting in cricklewood all day still on a wheel skate, word on the street is southern refused/ did not want to help fcc out so she is being skated all the way back to bedford from brighton.

That will cock things up at 15mph then!