Thameslink overhead wire issues at Blackfriars?

[George109]

Thameslink seem to be having some trouble today with "damage to the overhead wires" at Blackfriars, but I thought it was only third rail there?

‍♀️‍♂️ Specialist Network Rail response teams are on site at London Blackfriars to attend to a damaged piece of overhead line equipment.

The Southbound line remains blocked at this time, and services are expected to be delayed by up to at least 30 minutes.

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Any idea what's going on?

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Thameslink seem to be having some trouble today with "damage to the overhead wires" at Blackfriars, but I thought it was only third rail there?

x.com

x.com

Any idea what's going on?

It would appear that thieves have stolen the OHLE!!!

 

[800001]

It would appear that thieves have stolen the OHLE!!!

It’s the usual issue, pan raised on a set leaving Smithfield Sidings towards Blackfriars.

Been bidi working but needed a block to remove damaged pan off the unit.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

I think it's a pantograph strike (again)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

It’s the usual issue, pan raised on a set leaving Smithfield Sidings towards Blackfriars.

Been bidi working but needed a block to remove damaged pan off the unit.

The southbound line is still closed

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think it's a pantograph strike (again)

That does meet the description of overhead line equipment

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

That does meet the description of overhead line equipment

I know but most people would think of the wires

 

[norbitonflyer]

I know but most people would think of the wires

Probably the best choice from a limited number of reprogrammed options

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Probably the best choice from a limited number of reprogrammed options

It's marked as an operational incident on national rail

 

[GordonT]

It’s the usual issue, pan raised on a set leaving Smithfield Sidings towards Blackfriars.

Been bidi working but needed a block to remove damaged pan off the unit.

Wondering if this will prompt a further debate on the means to prevent these occurrences.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I think it's a pantograph strike (again)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==


The southbound line is still closed

Last time I mentioned the frequency of this issue on here I was shouted down about how a rare occurrence it is

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Last time I mentioned the frequency of this issue on here I was shouted down about how a rare occurrence it is

It doesn't happen often but way more than it should

 

[MCR247]

Last time I mentioned the frequency of this issue on here I was shouted down about how a rare occurrence it is

Something can happen on a repeated basis, but still relatively rarely. Let’s say 500 trains a day arrive at Blackfriars from City Thameslink/Smithfield sidings. Let’s say this type of incident happens every 250 days. That would be 125,000 trains arriving without issue, for every 1 that does. Obviously I’ve just made those particular numbers up to demonstrate that how rare (or frequently) something occurs depends on how you look at it.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Wondering if this will prompt a further debate on the means to prevent these occurrences.

It's always from the same sidings so it should be managed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Something can happen on a repeated basis, but still relatively rarely. Let’s say 500 trains a day arrive at Blackfriars from City Thameslink/Smithfield sidings. Let’s say this type of incident happens every 250 days. That would be 125,000 trains arriving without issue, for every 1 that does. Obviously I’ve just made those particular numbers up to demonstrate that how rare (or frequently) something occurs depends on how you look at it.

It literally never happens from city Thameslink in service as the automatic systems put it down at Farringdon or city Thameslink

 

[Surreytraveller]

Something can happen on a repeated basis, but still relatively rarely. Let’s say 500 trains a day arrive at Blackfriars from City Thameslink/Smithfield sidings. Let’s say this type of incident happens every 250 days. That would be 125,000 trains arriving without issue, for every 1 that does. Obviously I’ve just made those particular numbers up to demonstrate that how rare (or frequently) something occurs depends on how you look at it.

It might happen only once every 250 days, but how many trains does it affect on each of those days? And then double the answer, because each Thameslink train counts as two trains for Public Performance Measure, as it does two trains each side of the Thames

 

[uglymonkey]

Another meeting without coffee for someone?

 

[zwk500]

Wondering if this will prompt a further debate on the means to prevent these occurrences.

It seems, to a non-technical person, that between APCO and the ETCS packets there should be some way to verify that the train has the pan down prior to departure from the sidings, or to force a change in the platform at City Thameslink.

 

[GordonT]

Last time I mentioned the frequency of this issue on here I was shouted down about how a rare occurrence it is

Certainly doesn't warrant you being shouted down given the significant disruption and cost of repairing traction and infrastructure on those occasions when it does occur. It should not be beyond the wit of human endeavour to find a reasonably cost effective preventative measure.

 

[uglymonkey]

On Apollo 13 One of the astronauts put a piece of tape over a vital switch with "No"" on it in felt tip, to prevent him detaching the LEM with the other crew members still in it !. Seems to have worked.

 

[Smoggy]

It's always from the same sidings so it should be managed

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It literally never happens from city Thameslink in service as the automatic systems put it down at Farringdon or city Thameslink

It's happened in service earlier in year. Thankfully today there was minimal damage to the OLE as with it using the crossover it could have been a lot worse!

 

[norbitonflyer]

It's always from the same sidings so it should be managed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==


It literally never happens from city Thameslink in service as the automatic systems put it down at Farringdon or city Thameslink

What's different about departure from Smithfield that makes it more likely?
Indeed, given that the sidings are only accessible from the south, why is the pan up in the first place?

 

[NSEWonderer]

What's different about departure from Smithfield that makes it more likely?
Indeed, given that the sidings are only accessible from the south, why is the pan up in the first place?

I wondered that myself, smithfield is suppose to only have third rail as a power option, I wonder if the 700(Assuming it was one) may have rebooted or started up and put the pans up in error / fault.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

It's happened in service earlier in year. Thankfully today there was minimal damage to the OLE as with it using the crossover it could have been a lot worse!

It's a lot less likely or frequent though

 

[apinnard]

I wondered that myself, smithfield is suppose to only have third rail as a power option, I wonder if the 700(Assuming it was one) may have rebooted or started up and put the pans up in error / fault.

Smithfields into City Thameslink is DC only. And only an RLU at 8 carriages can use Smithfield. Could the driver have had a monentary lapse of concentration and panned up in the platform at City, or even worse in the siding? Did the train in question traverse the scissors where there is afaik no (dead) bar/wire which gives the pan just enough time to raise enough before to clouting objects before add kicks in? I assume Thameslink are still manual driving the core on weekends.

Or is there a problem with the APCO on the northbound platform at City incorrectly causing a pan up for the train exiting Smithfield, i.e going south through the nortnbound platform?

Surely got to be a coffee no snacks meeting if the former?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Smithfields into City Thameslink is DC only. And only an RLU at 8 carriages can use Smithfield. Could the driver have had a monentary lapse of concentration and panned up in the platform at City, or even worse in the siding? Did the train in question traverse the scissors where there is afaik no (dead) bar/wire which gives the pan just enough time to raise enough before to clouting objects before add kicks in? I assume Thameslink are still manual driving the core on weekends.

Or is there a problem with the APCO on the northbound platform at City incorrectly causing a pan up for the train exiting Smithfield, i.e going south through the nortnbound platform?

Surely got to be a coffee no snacks meeting if the former?

It has happened a few times before coming out of Smithfield as well

 

[NSEWonderer]

Smithfields into City Thameslink is DC only. And only an RLU at 8 carriages can use Smithfield. Could the driver have had a monentary lapse of concentration and panned up in the platform at City, or even worse in the siding? Did the train in question traverse the scissors where there is afaik no (dead) bar/wire which gives the pan just enough time to raise enough before to clouting objects before add kicks in? I assume Thameslink are still manual driving the core on weekends.

Or is there a problem with the APCO on the northbound platform at City incorrectly causing a pan up for the train exiting Smithfield, i.e going south through the nortnbound platform?

Surely got to be a coffee no snacks meeting if the former?

Going off Com's previous post on a similar incident, could indeed have pan up at city thameslink assuming that a Smithfields pan up would have caused an over height trip?

When the Driver hit the AC select and Pan Up/Reset makes the pantograph rise but shouldn't have the Driver then got an ADD as the pantograph wouldn't have found a wire ? iirc the roof in Smithfield is high enough to cause a pan over height and trip an ADD.

Quoted From Here

 

[poffle]

It has happened a few times before coming out of Smithfield as well

If the trains had an interlock that it can only take power from 3rd Rail if panto is down it would eliminate a lot of incidents.

Might cause problems though if the panto can't be retracted in a neutral section at a changeover point.

 

[Class2ldn]

If the driver put the pan up in the sidings it wouldn't have moved as it would have been in ac mode and damaged the pan there and then so it seems they came out, stopped and put the pan up in city, may have seen the wires and inadvertently stopped to put it in ac mode.
Doesn't help when you come out on a red at the end as if you had a clear signal you wouldn't need to stop and then the pan can't be put up if the trains moving.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Another meeting without coffee for someone?

Definitely lol

 

[Nottingham59]

It’s the usual issue, pan raised on a set leaving Smithfield Sidings towards Blackfriars.

Why don't they just fix a non-conducting slider rod beyond the end of the wires to stop the pan springing up and damaging itself? Are these trains from the sidings drawing power at this point?

 

[Russel]

Last time I mentioned the frequency of this issue on here I was shouted down about how a rare occurrence it is

Yes, I remember that thread, I recall any proposed solution being shut down as not worth it, too expensive etc, yet we have a thread running on here at the moment where it's being suggested a station be opened at the National Memorial Arboretum, a place that doesn't even justify a direct bus service!