Thameslink Midland mainline Bidirectional working

[sad1e]

At Kentish town and have just had my train sent wrong line from west Hampstead TL to Kentish town to allow a late Bedford to regain time.

How often does this happen, I had no idea that stretch of the the midland mainline had bi-di signalling. I thought it was only the core that had it and it was only used rarely during disruption

 

[Vexed]

What train was this? There isn't bi-di between West Hampstead TL and Kentish Town.

There is some flexibility in the signalling with two ladder junctions (Carlton Rd Jn & West Hampstead South Jn) and at Kentish Town itself.

 

[Haywain]

RealTimeTrains indicates that the train went onto the Down Slow at Carlton Road Junction and back to the Up Slow at Kentish Town Junction, which appears to be signalled. It’s unusual, but more for crossing back. I’m sure that I’ve done part of that when Up trains have been diverted into platform 3 at Kentish Town.

 

[Vexed]

RealTimeTrains indicates that the train went onto the Down Slow at Carlton Road Junction and back to the Up Slow at Kentish Town Junction, which appears to be signalled. It’s unusual, but more for crossing back. I’m sure that I’ve done part of that when Up trains have been diverted into platform 3 at Kentish Town.

Sounds about right. The signallers at West Hampstead being quite active at regulation as usual.

Quite a lot of flexibility from that single up facing signal on the Down Slow - you can go anywhere at Kentish Town or even onto the fasts avoiding Kentish Town.

Plus used for (also rare) Up Fast -> Up Slow moves at Carlton Road Jn, as usually for the fast line Thameslinks Carlton Road is used for Down Slow -> Down Fast with West Hampstead South doing Up Fast -> Up Slow simultaneously.

 

[bnc2018]

RealTimeTrains indicates that the train went onto the Down Slow at Carlton Road Junction and back to the Up Slow at Kentish Town Junction, which appears to be signalled. It’s unusual, but more for crossing back. I’m sure that I’ve done part of that when Up trains have been diverted into platform 3 at Kentish Town.

I'm confused - how would this help an up Bedford fast?

 

[OxtedL]

It's these two trains:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y36294/2025-07-01/detailed 9O27 to Sutton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y37016/2025-07-01/detailed 9T17 to Brighton

Everything southbound around that time was using the slow lines through to Cricklewood, so the Brighton train had been following the Sutton train on the slows and picking up a delay. The Sutton was temporarily moved onto northbound slow line and the Brighton train was let into the core first.

Unless there was a need to get staff from the ex-Bedford train onto the Sutton train, this won't have actually saved much (if any) time, so an interesting regulating decision.

 

[Haywain]

Unless there was a need to get staff from the ex-Bedford train onto the Sutton train, this won't have actually saved much (if any) time, so an interesting regulating decision.

Without this the Bedford train would have lost a bit more time while the Sutton called at Kentish Town.

 

[OxtedL]

Without this the Bedford train would have lost a bit more time while the Sutton called at Kentish Town.

1 minute, if that. Maybe 2 minutes at a stretch. The Sutton lost 6 minutes through the manoeuvre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2025 ==

It also seems like several northbound trains were delayed by this (although there was a lot going on this morning so I may be interpreting wrong.)

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y36277/2025-07-01/detailed 9O20 to Luton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y36997/2025-07-01/detailed 9T10 to Bedford
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y36193/2025-07-01/detailed 9K76 to West Hampstead Thameslink
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y37249/2025-07-01/detailed 9V22 to St Albans
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y36695/2025-07-01/detailed 9R16 to Bedford

I feel like the only realistic justification for delaying that many trains would be to get some member of staff back onto their diagram.

 

[Bald Rick]

Almost certainly for crew reasons.

 

[Horizon22]

Almost certainly for crew reasons.

Would have to presume so. Because otherwise the regulation seems to not have helped at all and then the train lost more time (blanket speed restrictions south of the river?) and was terminated at Haywards Heath.