Thameslink line speeds.

[modernrail]

As a resident of Herne Hill I have been pretty impressed by the pathing of the extra trains through a very busy bit of track. Plenty of delays etc but overall not too bad considering the size of the task. The sheer length of the trains seems to cause problems when they are moving through the junctions at the low line speeds - it just takes quite some time for 12 carriages to clear junctions and signals.

I will bite on one point. I am a very regular user of Gatwick Airport and the journey from Herne Hill is convaluted, the best timings coming from going into London and back out. The best timings also leave you on the dreaded overpriced Gatwick Express. Is there any scope at all for a stopping service to run from Blackfriars to Gatwick or further south when the express service reverts to London Bridge? Even a station before East Croydon but with good connections to East Croydon would be a help. Such a service could also act as a congestion buster for Herne Hill and other stations on the route and would use some of that spare capacity on the four track route from Loughborough Junction to Blackfriars.

 

[387star]

Actually only the signals at tulse hill station for the junctions are approach controlled. 15 round the curve to herne hill .

Via Streatham is way quicker aside from a lengthy 15 between the Streatham and the common

The signal protecting herne hill on the down is held at red if the junction signal at herne hill is red ?

 

[Ianno87]

The Palace routeing is preferred over Streatham since going via Streatham (thus winding up on the Slows at Streatham Commin) then accessing the BML Fast Lines involves a flat Slow to Fast crossing move (the 'wrong' way) at East Croydon or Stoats Nest - not ideal.

Heading via Palace means that you can drop straight across onto the Fast Lines at Norwood using the grade separation there.

 

[tsr]

Both of them involve a bit of a mess with the junctions. Thameslink services heading over the flat crossings between the Fast lines and the Up Spur or the Down Spur at Norwood Junction are frequently the cause of other trains being held on red signals (Southern and LO alike) and used to always get priority - something which has fortunately reduced a little in the last couple of months. Once the Thameslinks are on the Down Fast at Norwood, it is admittedly easier to get them through - but by that point, the damage to PPM of a couple of trains in the area is long since completed.

Neither route is a perfect solution and everyone would far prefer them to run straight through to/from London Bridge. But you can't do that yet.

 

[Bald Rick]

Neither route is a perfect solution and everyone would far prefer them to run straight through to/from London Bridge. But you can't do that yet.

Just 8 weeks to go (on Tuesday).

 

[tsr]

Just 8 weeks to go (on Tuesday).

The good passengers of Uckfield thank you.

 

[USBT]

I will bite on one point. I am a very regular user of Gatwick Airport and the journey from Herne Hill is convaluted, the best timings coming from going into London and back out. The best timings also leave you on the dreaded overpriced Gatwick Express. Is there any scope at all for a stopping service to run from Blackfriars to Gatwick or further south when the express service reverts to London Bridge? Even a station before East Croydon but with good connections to East Croydon would be a help. Such a service could also act as a congestion buster for Herne Hill and other stations on the route and would use some of that spare capacity on the four track route from Loughborough Junction to Blackfriars.

I don't know if this will help, but the Bedford-Gatwick (via Redhill) will call at Norwood Junction from May. Would that help (Herne Hill-Tulse Hill, Tulse Hill-Norwood Jct, TL to Gatwick)? That said, that Thameslink will be the slow train and overtaken by one TL and several fast Southerns, so another change at East Croydon will get you to Gatwick earlier.

Also, not sure why you need to take the Gatwick Express from Victoria today. There are 5tph Southerns to Gatwick that take only 31-32 minutes.

 

[USBT]

I don't know if this will help, but the Bedford-Gatwick (via Redhill) will call at Norwood Junction from May. Would that help (Herne Hill-Tulse Hill, Tulse Hill-Norwood Jct, TL to Gatwick)? That said, that Thameslink will be the slow train and overtaken by one TL and several fast Southerns, so another change at East Croydon will get you to Gatwick earlier.

Come to think of it, with the May timetable you may just as well take the TL to Blackfriars and then the fast TLs from there to GTW. It doesn't avoid zone 1, but likely more convenient than going via VIC. And only one change vs two or three.

 

[HXX]

I travelled West Hampstead TL - Gatwick over the summer heading on holidays and couldn't believe how slow the journey felt. The return journey (at 3am) was via Streatham and felt faster, even though it was 10 min longer overall.

 

[RichardN]

I don't know if this will help, but the Bedford-Gatwick (via Redhill) will call at Norwood Junction from May. Would that help (Herne Hill-Tulse Hill, Tulse Hill-Norwood Jct, TL to Gatwick)?

I think there may be times when it will be "fastest" to change at Crystal Palace as well..

 

[cle]

I don't know if this will help, but the Bedford-Gatwick (via Redhill) will call at Norwood Junction from May. Would that help (Herne Hill-Tulse Hill, Tulse Hill-Norwood Jct, TL to Gatwick)? That said, that Thameslink will be the slow train and overtaken by one TL and several fast Southerns, so another change at East Croydon will get you to Gatwick earlier.

Also, not sure why you need to take the Gatwick Express from Victoria today. There are 5tph Southerns to Gatwick that take only 31-32 minutes.

Completely agree. Imagine if they folded these valuable 4tph of paths through Clapham and Croydon paths into the main Southern schedule... and provided more options to elsewhere.

Just picture it - a nice evenly spaced 7-8tph to Gatwick at the same fares. Basically a metro service. Less platform dwelling at Gatwick (and at Victoria, 2 platforms for 4tph!). Help spread East Croydon people across more services... reinstate better service to Redhill... win win win.

 

[BingBong50]

Has the track work been completed yet between London Bridge and Blackfriars to reinstate that part?

 

[physics34]

Has the track work been completed yet between London Bridge and Blackfriars to reinstate that part?

well the new times are in the timetable so you have to presume they will be by jan 4th. There is no word of a delay

 

[EveningStar]

The signal protecting herne hill on the down is held at red if the junction signal at herne hill is red ?

Rename Herne Hill as The Crucible ... need a red before getting any colours ...

 

[Sunset route]

Rename Herne Hill as The Crucible ... need a red before getting any colours ...

I’m sorry but Redhill already has that honour lmao

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Has the track work been completed yet between London Bridge and Blackfriars to reinstate that part?

Yes, but I'm not 100% sure if the pointwork at the top has been reconnected yet.

The attached picture was taken on 6th October.

 

[swt_passenger]

Has the track work been completed yet between London Bridge and Blackfriars to reinstate that part?

Network Rail PR a few days ago said that all track work was complete London Bridge to Blackfriars:

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....nk-trains-to-stop-once-again-at-london-bridge

What's weird about the article is the implication that trains will only call from May 2018. That is somewhat at odds with previous posts here by insiders suggesting calls commence on Jan 2nd, as shown in RTT?

 

[Bald Rick]

Network Rail PR a few days ago said that all track work was complete London Bridge to Blackfriars:

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....nk-trains-to-stop-once-again-at-london-bridge

What's weird about the article is the implication that trains will only call from May 2018. That is somewhat at odds with previous posts here by insiders suggesting calls commence on Jan 2nd, as shown in RTT?

Trains are timed to run both routes, the route taken on the day will depend on driver knowledge. Those that go via London Bridge will call, but whether they will be advertised as such I don't know. My guess is that when all the drivers have been trained that way the calls will be activated.

 

[Sunset route]

Trains are timed to run both routes, the route taken on the day will depend on driver knowledge. Those that go via London Bridge will call, but whether they will be advertised as such I don't know. My guess is that when all the drivers have been trained that way the calls will be activated.

And that’s not a recipe for wrong routes, I just hope that the train WTT IDs teflect the route to be taken for that service are pretty obvious i.e. W via the three hills (or Norbury) or T direct via London Bridge.

 

[Bald Rick]

And that’s not a recipe for wrong routes, I just hope that the train WTT IDs teflect the route to be taken for that service are pretty obvious i.e. W via the three hills (or Norbury) or T direct via London Bridge.

Courtesy of Realtime Trains.

What I don't know is how far in advance each one will be activated.

Note the southbound Ts are shown to pass London Bridge, and sit at Bricklayers Arms for 5 minutes. Northbound they are shown to call (not for passengers) and sit on the corner at Blackfriars for 5 minutes.

 

[Sunset route]

View attachment 39415

Courtesy of Realtime Trains.

What I don't know is how far in advance each one will be activated.

Still having nightmares (lol) from the days of virgin cross country schedules on Saturdays. Now children which possible of 7 routes is the service from Brighton to Manchester taking today (because as usual virgin missed the data deadline to get their schedules into our simplifies). Let’s ring control, nope they don’t have any information, ok let’s speak to the driver, oops no CSR got to stop him on a red signal and get him out the cab to ask. Today we are going via Redhill, Croydon and Herne Hill, next week we spin the roulette wheel and it will be a different combination.

 

[Bromley boy]

Still having nightmares (lol) from the days of virgin cross country schedules on Saturdays. Now children which possible of 7 routes is the service from Brighton to Manchester taking today (because as usual virgin missed the data deadline to get their schedules into our simplifies). Let’s ring control, nope they don’t have any information, ok let’s speak to the driver, oops no CSR got to stop him on a red signal and get him out the cab to ask. Today we are going via Redhill, Croydon and Herne Hill, next week we spin the roulette wheel and it will be a different combination.

No CSR?!

Showing your age there . In all seriousness,when was it introduced on the BML?

Thanks.

 

[Sunset route]

No CSR?!

Showing your age there . In all seriousness,when was it introduced on the BML?

Thanks.

Off topic but anyway, DOO radio was in the London area and the northern end of the BML quite early on before my time in the ASC maybe late 80s or early 90s but then it morphed into CSR with more functions post 1994 Cowden Crash and spread down the rest of BML as well as the rest of the ex NSE land. I believe the DOO equipment changed over to CSR around late 2001 as those in the surrounding smaller boxes had the new CSR first before they updated the larger ASCs.

 

[Bromley boy]

Off topic but anyway, DOO radio was in the London area and the northern end of the BML quite early on before my time in the ASC maybe late 80s or early 90s but then it morphed into CSR with more functions post 1994 Cowden Crash and spread down the rest of BML as well as the rest of the ex NSE land. I believe the DOO equipment changed over to CSR around late 2001 as those in the surrounding smaller boxes had the new CSR first before they updated the larger ASCs.

Very informative, thanks.