Thameslink: "formed of" Vs "which has"

[Tobberz]

Thameslink announcements now seem to say "a Thameslink service which has x coaches", whereas I'm sure it used to say "formed of X coaches".

Am I amnesiac, or has it changed?

And, further, is this part of this premise of the supposed de-lingoifying of the railways, e.g.: abandoning use of the word "terminating"?

 

[py_megapixel]

For as long as I can remember in Northern land, the displays have said "A Northern service which has 4 carriages", but the wording of the announcements has been "This train is formed of 4 carriages".

 

[londonmidland]

Is this onboard the train itself or at the station? If it's the latter, what station did you hear it at?

 

[class 9]

Thameslink announcements now seem to say "a Thameslink service which has x coaches", whereas I'm sure it used to say "formed of X coaches".

Am I amnesiac, or has it changed?

And, further, is this part of this premise of the supposed de-lingoifying of the railways, e.g.: abandoning use of the word "terminating"?

Also they don't announce "platform alteration" it's now "platform change"

 

[Rescars]

Internally, may a service still be "short formed" or "caped"?

 

[GordonT]

Also they don't announce "platform alteration" it's now "platform change"

I've similarly not heard the word "alight" in announcements as much recently.
A previous thread covering some of this territory:

Station announcer phraseology no longer used

What were examples of once quite common phrases used by station announcers which are no longer heard now? Announcers at Glasgow and Edinburgh used to be able to announce things like "a Griddle Car is conveyed on this train". There were occasional references to "the carriage sidings" when...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Horizon22]

Probably just a bit of adjusting to use better "Plain English". I believe this has changed across the board at several TOCs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 14:33 ==

Internally, may a service still be "short formed" or "caped"?

Internally sure, but this is about what language is provided to the passenger for which neither (except maybe the odd rogue manual announcement) would be used.

 

[yorkie]

Internally, may a service still be "short formed" or "caped"?

The internal code "CAPE" has not been used for decades; it meant cancelled throughout (not in part; the old code for that was PINE)

 

[Cdd89]

If we're complaining about Thameslink announcements, my greatest annoyance is that the "new" Brent Cross West has a downward intonation when every other non-terminal station has an upward intonation.

 

[Mattplans]

If I remember correctly, the Thameslink announcements were recorded before they knew what the station would be called, so the 'West' on that recording is taken from another station.

 

[bramling]

I've similarly not heard the word "alight" in announcements as much recently.
A previous thread covering some of this territory:

Station announcer phraseology no longer used

What were examples of once quite common phrases used by station announcers which are no longer heard now? Announcers at Glasgow and Edinburgh used to be able to announce things like "a Griddle Car is conveyed on this train". There were occasional references to "the carriage sidings" when...

www.railforums.co.uk

Seems to be another example of dumbing everything down to suit the dumbest.

So back in the good old days your average kid could ask their parents “what does alight mean?”, and the better end of the tree could probably work it out themselves through context. Now it’s even easier, people can just type a word in their phone and find out what it means. But, no, that’s allegedly too difficult for people - sigh.

 

[Cdd89]

If I remember correctly, the Thameslink announcements were recorded before they knew what the station would be called, so the 'West' on that recording is taken from another station.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this theory has a couple of unanswered questions:

• Where did they get "Brent Cross" from?
• The only other Thameslink stations containing "West" are West Hampstead Tlk., West Sutton and Westcombe Park, none of which have "West" read with a downward intonation
• I don't think that announcer is used on other services? Edit: Ah, I see she's on Southern and G Northern as well, so quite a few other options, I think the only one that fits is the rarely-served Penge West!

Another Edit (apologies!): according to the Brent Cross West thread, "Brent Cross Cricklewood" and "Brent Cross Thameslink" appeared in early schematics. It's plausible that it was recorded with one or both of these names, and then "West" was sourced for the splice. So I'm on board with your recollection!

 

[ollyexe2808]

Seems to be another example of dumbing everything down to suit the dumbest.

So back in the good old days your average kid could ask their parents “what does alight mean?”, and the better end of the tree could probably work it out themselves through context. Now it’s even easier, people can just type a word in their phone and find out what it means. But, no, that’s allegedly too difficult for people - sigh.

In soth, I trowe that we sholde goon ayein to a tyme whan rightful Englissh was spoken, er we moste maken it dul for the comune man!

In all seriousness though, language evolves and if the new announcements make it easier to be understood, all the better. I have more of a problem with over-engineering of sentences. One example is for request stops: "[station] is a request stop. Passengers Wishing to alight at this station must alert the conductor on the train to allow for the train to stop to allow them to leave". Surely there is a more succinct way to say this?!

 

[GordonT]

One example is for request stops: "[station] is a request stop. Passengers Wishing to alight at this station must alert the conductor on the train to allow for the train to stop to allow them to leave". Surely there is a more succinct way to say this?!

AI offered up two options:
Source: www.google.com with "AI mode selected".

Entered in Search box: What is a more succinct way of expressing "Passengers Wishing to alight at this station must alert the conductor on the train to allow for the train to stop to allow them to leave." Response was as follows:
• "This is a request stop. Tell the conductor if you wish to get off." (Clear and modern)

• "To get off at this station, please inform the conductor." (Polite and brief)

The comments in brackets at the end of the bullet points were part of the AI response and were not composed by myself.

 

[Cdd89]

Seems to be another example of dumbing everything down to suit the dumbest.
So back in the good old days your average kid could ask their parents “what does alight mean?"

In relation to native English speakers, you are undoubtedly connect. But many non-native speakers use the railway. I bet you'd be very annoyed if a rail system in Spain used a less-common Spanish term that caused you to miss your stop (of course, in other countries, announcements are often provided in English as well – but that just underscores the point!)

There is a separate point that if the words are not used in everyday language they'll die out – but the preservation of the English language is not the concern of the rail industry!

 

[bramling]

AI offers up two options:
• "This is a request stop. Tell the conductor if you wish to get off." (Clear and modern)
• "To get off at this station, please inform the conductor." (Polite and brief)

“Get off” sounds awful. If that’s an evolution of language then no thanks.

I’d really prefer rail announcements not to resemble something that sounds like high-school slang for what someone was up to the previous night.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 22:08 ==

In relation to native English speakers, you are undoubtedly connect. But many non-native speakers use the railway. I bet you'd be very annoyed if a rail system in Spain used a less-common Spanish term that caused you to miss your stop (of course, in other countries, announcements are often provided in English as well – but that just underscores the point!)

I couldn’t give a toss about non-native speakers. If I went to Spain I would either happily suck it up, or if it caused me that much of a problem I’d learn the language.

Something like “alight” is only less common if there’s a conscious effort to stop using it. Most people know what the word board means, alight is only the inverse of that. We aren’t talking about some specialist technical term.

 

[yorkie]

AI offers up two options:
• "This is a request stop. Tell the conductor if you wish to get off." (Clear and modern)
• "To get off at this station, please inform the conductor." (Polite and brief)

Can you please edit your post to state which AI this is?

It's fine to quote from external sources, but we do ask for:

• details of the source (a hyperlink wherever possible/practicable)
• a quote in quote tags
• a comment of your own should be separate to the quoted text

Thanks in advance

Edit: thanks

 

[GordonT]

Can you please edit your post to state which AI this is?

It's fine to quote from external sources, but we do ask for:

• details of the source (a hyperlink wherever possible/practicable)
• a quote in quote tags
• a comment of your own should be separate to the quoted text

Thanks in advance

Post edited.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

“Get off” sounds awful. If that’s an evolution of language then no thanks.

Funnily enough the original Ferrograph displays under SWT and early SWR (with Celia and Phil before Anne and Rodger) used to display:

“If you are going to Milford or Witley you will need to get off from the front 8 coaches as these stations have short platforms.”

 

[whoosh]

I couldn’t give a toss about non-native speakers. If I went to Spain I would either happily suck it up, or if it caused me that much of a problem I’d learn the language.

I think there's a lot of waffle in announcements which smack of a manager somewhere trying to sound clever. This does nothing to help anyone whose English isn't great.

"Inclement weather" is an example. There's people whose first language IS English, who don't know what that means!

There's enough waffle about what tickets are and aren't valid, without even more waffle about a whimsical description of the possible friction coefficient of platform surfaces being deficient in anything less than a nice day. Just use plain English. "Platforms may be slippery."

Overuse of the word 'service'. I've heard it reference the actual train, but also refer to the tea and biscuit distribution on a trolley for first class passengers as well; and also the buffet "open and cleared for service" like it's had permission from Air Traffic Control, rather than just "open".
Worst of all: "This is an empty service" on platform screens when the train is empty to the depot - and so "not (even) in service"!

Nonsense!

All of which make life difficult for people whose first language isn't English. I agree announcements might not need dumbing down, but we do need to think more carefully about if announcements are clear and simple.

 

[py_megapixel]

Overuse of the word 'service'. I've heard it reference the actual train, but also refer to the tea and biscuit distribution on a trolley for first class passengers as well; and also the buffet "open and cleared for service" like it's had permission from Air Traffic Control, rather than just "open".
Worst of all: "This is an empty service" on platform screens when the train is empty to the depot - and so "not (even) in service"!

I have seen before on a departure board, "The next train at this platform is not in service; please do not board this service." - well is it a service or not then?!?