Thameslink fast trains sacrificed?

[CMS]

Returning on this train tonight:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X47770/2013/07/06/advanced - 1807 Brighton to Bedford

... the ride seemed to go smoothly until West Hampstead, when instead of moving onto the fast as normal Beford services do, the train stuck to the slow and eventually caught up with the stopper that was 9 mins ahead out of St Pancras. The train crawled alongside the M1, not topping about 30 I would guess well into St Albans.

On departing the train, I noticed another Bedford train pulling in (about 3 mins later) formed of 2x377s, which according to RTT is a service from Sutton, which went on the fast line.

Looking at RTT, it seems as if this was on purpose, but why? Surely there is no excuse for a 30 min STP-STA, with the normal 17/18 mins, and why are the trains being flighted so closely without appropriate stopping patterns? Any thoughts?

BTW, What is the point of the Thameslink programme, fair enough the extra carriages and the London Bridge flyovers, but who needs to get from Welwyn GC to Orpington? Any disruption on the route will surely bring down the entire former NSE area! It's not as if the current Great Northern service patterns are dreadful, and the current Thameslink routes definitely work!

 

[Tomnick]

Looks like the train in front was also late (this one). Both were booked slow line, as you suspect, with 5½' pathing time in your train between Pancras and St Albans - presumably that's the preferred option because running down fast would conflict with something else somewhere. It's a busy bit of railway .

 

[yorkie]

The fast line was not available to the 1951 from St Pancras, because it was required by the 1955 Leeds and 2000 Corby services.

As for the point of Thameslink, no it's not for people from Welwyn to get to Orpington but for all the intermediate journeys people make e.g. Welwyn to Blackfriars, St Pancras to Orpington, etc. This has been discussed in-depth in previous threads (a search may find some).

 

[transmanche]

What is the point of the Thameslink programme, fair enough the extra carriages and the London Bridge flyovers, but who needs to get from Welwyn GC to Orpington?

Probably about the same number that currently need to get from Luton to Sutton - the service has to start and finish somewhere!

They're not building it solely for people who do end-to-end journeys, but also for people making journeys along the route - e.g. Finsbury Park-Croydon.

 

[CMS]

I did think I saw an EMT HST go past on the fast - it was just so infuriating to watch us get overtaken by a greenline coach on the M1! Also the 1837 seems to be the 377 I was talking about which managed to do a 16 min STP-SAC despite leaving Brighton late through to Crystal Palace.

And concerning the 'new' TL journey opportunities, I do agree there would be some benefit but the risk of disruption and overcrowding on the core frightens me - St Pancras is packed well into the late night most evenings on trains returning to Bedford, it's going to be manic with GN added in.

 

[transmanche]

And concerning the 'new' TL journey opportunities, I do agree there would be some benefit but the risk of disruption and overcrowding on the core frightens me - St Pancras is packed well into the late night most evenings on trains returning to Bedford, it's going to be manic with GN added in.

There will be far more 12-carriage trains in the future than there are now. And ATO in the core will mean shorter headways than are possible at present.

 

[louis97]

Normally the service you traveled on leaves St Pancras at 1948 and goes on the fast lines and overtakes the stopper train you followed, crossing onto the slows again at Radlett to allow the following EMT departure at 1955 to overtake.

However today Brighton to Bedford services are diverted via Herne Hill instead of London Bridge, and therefore your service was booked to leave at 1951 and had to go onto the slow lines due to not enough room between itself and the following EMT departure at 1955. As a result you then had to following the stopping service with an overall increase in journey time of 5 minutes. Obviously you were delayed further because the stopping train was late.

The service you witnessed arrive on the fast line platforms at St Albans was another Brighton to Bedford service, however this one was booked on the fast lines. (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X46584/2013/07/06/advanced)

 

[Antman]

Returning on this train tonight:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X47770/2013/07/06/advanced - 1807 Brighton to Bedford

... the ride seemed to go smoothly until West Hampstead, when instead of moving onto the fast as normal Beford services do, the train stuck to the slow and eventually caught up with the stopper that was 9 mins ahead out of St Pancras. The train crawled alongside the M1, not topping about 30 I would guess well into St Albans.

On departing the train, I noticed another Bedford train pulling in (about 3 mins later) formed of 2x377s, which according to RTT is a service from Sutton, which went on the fast line.

Looking at RTT, it seems as if this was on purpose, but why? Surely there is no excuse for a 30 min STP-STA, with the normal 17/18 mins, and why are the trains being flighted so closely without appropriate stopping patterns? Any thoughts?

BTW, What is the point of the Thameslink programme, fair enough the extra carriages and the London Bridge flyovers, but who needs to get from Welwyn GC to Orpington? Any disruption on the route will surely bring down the entire former NSE area! It's not as if the current Great Northern service patterns are dreadful, and the current Thameslink routes definitely work!

The other day overhead line problems at Radlett caused cancellations and delays at Sevenoaks, I guess thats a risk you take with a cross city railway, I think the pro's outwiegh the cons though