Thameslink Core Disruption Post 2018

[Hadders]

The current closure of the Thameslink core and disruption to services because of flooding at Farringdon got me thinking about what might happen in similar circumstances post 2018 when the Great Northern services go through the core.

Today we've seen 6tph running northbound from St Pancras. If this happened after 2018 I assume it'd still only be possible to turn 6tph at St Pancras low level so would that end up being 3 trains on Thameslink and 3 on the GN side?

Will provision been made in the plans to turn a significant number of trains at, for example, Finsbury Park and West Hampstead at times of disruption. Presumably it won't be possible to run all the GN services through to Kings Cross and turn them there.

The Thameslink programme brings great benefits to rail travel but I do hope there is sufficient contingency built in so that significant disruption to the core allows a reasonable service to continue running on both northern 'branches' and to southbound destinations.

 

[21C101]

I would imagine the gn trains will revert to terminating at kx suburban or terminate at finsbury and reverse on the canonbury curve

 

[pablo]

Looks to me like there is spare capacity in St.P HL for a few turnarounds.

 

[Bald Rick]

4 an hour will tip out at Finsbury park and turn back in the new tunnels. Others will go to KX if platform space allows, or be cancelled throughout.

South* of the river trains can turn back at London bridge Platforms 4/5, Blackfriars, City and Farringdon.

(*South of the river in this context means anywhere with 3rd rail)

 

[Rich McLean]

Looks to me like there is spare capacity in St.P HL for a few turnarounds.

At the expense of EMT cancelling all Corby's as well as a few other services

 

[pro4600]

Looks to me like there is spare capacity in St.P HL for a few turnarounds.

On the Eurostar platforms maybe.

 

[21C101]

4 an hour will tip out at Finsbury park and turn back in the new tunnels. Others will go to KX if platform space allows, or be cancelled throughout.

South* of the river trains can turn back at London bridge Platforms 4/5, Blackfriars, City and Farringdon.

(*South of the river in this context means anywhere with 3rd rail)

Time to reopen York Road. I got some odd looks on the train when I suddenly started laughing at the Okehampton comment.

On the subject of platform quantities, while the track layout was different, I recall they managed to turn round a full 14 or so Thameslink plus 6 MML at St Pan High Level in six platforms during the eight month closure to build the low level box.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

At the expense of EMT cancelling all Corby's as well as a few other services

Which on the basis of 14 tph / 15 tph peak Thameslink from the north was a very prudent and helpful move.

Something like 17,000 passengers on TLK in the highest peak period hour. Admitedly some would have filtered away to LM / GN / LUL etc - but that is a lot of people to move - and most of us on the route can confirm the severe crowding south of St Albans on a normal day...

 

[Hadders]

Out of interest were EMT stopping all services at Bedford and/or Luton today to help spread the load.

 

[21C101]

Out of interest were EMT stopping all services at Bedford and/or Luton today to help spread the load.

I don't think so.

 

[Bald Rick]

Time to reopen York Road. I got some odd looks on the train when I suddenly started laughing at the Okehampton comment.

On the subject of platform quantities, while the track layout was different, I recall they managed to turn round a full 14 or so Thameslink plus 6 MML at St Pan High Level in six platforms during the eight month closure to build the low level box.

I was trying to remember what the service was during the block. In the peak I know there were 8 fasts an hour off 2 platforms, but I couldn't remember what happened to the slows. I have a feeling they all terminated at Kentish Town, but that can't be right.

 

[bramling]

The current closure of the Thameslink core and disruption to services because of flooding at Farringdon got me thinking about what might happen in similar circumstances post 2018 when the Great Northern services go through the core.

Today we've seen 6tph running northbound from St Pancras. If this happened after 2018 I assume it'd still only be possible to turn 6tph at St Pancras low level so would that end up being 3 trains on Thameslink and 3 on the GN side?

Will provision been made in the plans to turn a significant number of trains at, for example, Finsbury Park and West Hampstead at times of disruption. Presumably it won't be possible to run all the GN services through to Kings Cross and turn them there.

The Thameslink programme brings great benefits to rail travel but I do hope there is sufficient contingency built in so that significant disruption to the core allows a reasonable service to continue running on both northern 'branches' and to southbound destinations.

In reality it will cause chaos, especially if driver diagrams are interworked between the southern and northern ends of the network, as is the case today with Thameslink.

If this was January 2019 instead of January 2015, this would have been four full days of disruption to the Great Northern network as a direct result of Thameslink. Not something to look forward to. We already saw on 27th December how good this railway is at handling unplanned non-availability of a part of the network.

 

[21C101]

I was trying to remember what the service was during the block. In the peak I know there were 8 fasts an hour off 2 platforms, but I couldn't remember what happened to the slows. I have a feeling they all terminated at Kentish Town, but that can't be right.

Google dosent reveal any timetables, managed to find this (below) which states that the number of seats into St P on both Midland and Thameslink would remain the same:

http://www.railwaypeople.com/rail-projects/ctrl-blockade-25.html

 

[transmanche]

In reality it will cause chaos, especially if driver diagrams are interworked between the southern and northern ends of the network, as is the case today with Thameslink.

Presumably the TOC has a prepared emergency timetable (along with with emergency diagrams to support it) for such situations. I guess the difficulty (as ever) is putting this into operation - merely getting agreement from all parties and informing all staff would be quite an operation.

 

[jopsuk]

On off peak services, the Great Northern side will have six trains per hour into the core, comprising three half hourly services. As far I understand, the Cambridge-Brighton and Peterborough services will be 12-car, so these could only be diverted into the main shed at KGX, whilst Cambridge-Tattenham corner will be 8-car so could go into the suburban shed.

 

[DelayRepay]

The thing that concerns me is, when Thameslink goes down the pan, the backup is GN trains and buses across. If the problems spread to the GN route, this option won't work any more.

Having said that, they were able to run a northbound train every 10 minutes from St Pancras today. Add in a few services from Kings Cross, and maybe the odd one from St Pancras High Level, West Hampstead, Kentish Town and Finsbury Park and it will probably be ok.

The biggest problem is likely to be displaced drivers and stock.

 

[glbotu]

I take it there aren't any plans to split Thameslink up from a driving perspective? (ie: change drivers at City Thameslink/St Pancras LL).

What are the advantages to running drivers through?

 

[transmanche]

What are the advantages to running drivers through?

It eliminates the possibility of there being no driver waiting to take over the service, which would block the core.