Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[swt_passenger]

I thought of that, getting a seat guaranteed, but in rush hour is that really the case? In other words, does first-class come with a seat marked, and suppose it's an any time ticket so you don't know which train you will be on? Also, if you have bought 1st to hope t get a seat, it's a bit of a waste if you don't!

I suppose there aren't any regulations/laws as to what defines "first class" and I suppose it would vary between short and long journeys. But back to my OP, that looks no better/different than the standard class we get round my parts.

Was this your first visit to the Class 700 thread?

Just that everything appearing in the last few posts seems to have been under discussion for the best part of a couple of years...

 

[Bromley boy]

Is that unusual when first class is declassified? In fact, there are many situations when first class is declassified and there is no notification of any kind on board.
I don't see a problem. First class is declassified and is advertised as such in the relevant area on board. The TOC has publicised it and it's even been picked up by multiple media sources.

I’m not going to keep explaining it to you again and again if you can’t understand the obvious.

It’s far too boring.

You can take a horse to water.... etc.

 

[gingerheid]

The 700s are looking really dirty on the outside already It's almost like basically white isn't actually an ideal colour for a train!

 

[Bald Rick]

The 700s are looking really dirty on the outside already It's almost like basically white isn't actually an ideal colour for a train!

Funny you should say that, as my steed this morning (700128) was particularly sparkly clean on the outside. So much so that I thought it must have been fresh out of the box.

 

[transmanche]

I’m not going to keep explaining it to you again and again if you can’t understand the obvious.

You haven't explained it properly once.

People who are clued-up can avail of the declassified first class accommodation. And people who aren't, won't.

Seems perfectly simple, straightforward and problem-free to me. Just like when a unit with first class accommodation substitutes on a standard-class only service, which happens regularly enough.

You can take a horse to water.... etc.

Pot, kettle, black.

 

[AM9]

Regulars know about the secret (you see it at Blackfriars when commuters know the best place to stand to access the rear area).

Yes, the declassified first class is well used in the peak, both am & pm. Commuters also know to stand at the rear at the busiest outer suburban stops also, i.e St Albans, Harpenden, Flitwick and Bedford. No doubt the regulars on the ex-GN routes will learn to do the same.
Off-peak is often almost empty because most passengers are not regulars and (presumably) not in the know. Don't forget that the class 700s are either 8 or 12-car and there is tendency to see seats as the trin pulls in and not walk 100m to the back of the train. The only place were all passengers walk past the rear declassified area is at Brighton. I've been surprised that very few board through the first doors there.

 

[Bromley boy]

Response to transmache:

For the love of god.

Do you actually use these trains yourself?

Anyone who has travelled on these trains when they’re crush loaded, and observed the crowds from a declassified 1st class compartment, with seats and room to spare, will understand the issue. I have done so myself many times. The message simply hasn’t been communicated.

You seem to forget the average commuter isn’t an obsessional enthusiast who knows every detail of every item of rolling stock on the U.K. network.

Yes, the declassified first class is well used in the peak

Becoming far less of a thing admittedly, as word gets out.

More’s the pity!

 

[Bald Rick]

Becoming far less of a thing admittedly, as word gets out.

More’s the pity!

You won’t get a declassified seat southbound am peak between St Albans and London, nor northbound anywhere north of City TL (in my experience).

 

[transmanche]

Anyone who has travelled on these trains when they’re crush loaded, and observed the crowds from a declassified 1st class compartment, with seats and room to spare, will understand the issue. I have done so myself many times. The message simply hasn’t been communicated.

Jolly good. That's your opinion. It's not mine. I don't see it as a problem.

Those that know, know. Those that don't, don't. That's life.

You seem to forget the average commuter isn’t an obsessional enthusiast who knows every detail of every item of rolling stock on the U.K. network.

Not at all. But I have noticed that one or two of them read the Metro and the Evening Standard. That's how I first found out about it...

 

[Bromley boy]

Not at all. But I have noticed that one or two of them read the Metro and the Evening Standard. That's how I first found out about it...

Is it really? If you found that out through the free press it’s a coincidence you’re also an established member on here, yet didn’t find it out on here first.

I know quite a few people who commute into central London, read both the metro and the standard. How many of them would know (or care) what a class 700 train even is, let alone which 1st class compartment is declassified?

Answer: none of them!

I don’t see it as a “problem” either - I just think it could have been publicised better.

Anyway. This is a boring and pointless argument. Let’s leave it there!

 

[urpert]

It also doesn’t appear to appear at all when in the ‘core,’ and only appears once in a rotation of the messages

I travel on 700s all the time and have never seen it - but I generally use services without advertised first class so perhaps the PIS is set not to display it on the ‘local’ services.

 

[Floydlover25]

Is the declassified coach at the rear of the train in both south and northbound directions?

 

[Mojo]

Is the declassified coach at the rear of the train in both south and northbound directions?

Yes, it is always the compartment at the rear of the train. Many services are also Standard class only, so both compartments are available and advertised for use by all customers.

 

[Floydlover25]

Yes, it is always the compartment at the rear of the train. Many services are also Standard class only, so both compartments are available and advertised for use by all customers.

Thanks. On both the TL and GN routes?

 

[Stew998]

I travel on 700s all the time and have never seen it - but I generally use services without advertised first class so perhaps the PIS is set not to display it on the ‘local’ services.

I think you'll find it only displays on the PIS in the declassified first class section. I can't remember exactly the words used but it struck me as being phrased more as a warning to first class ticket holders that the rabble may descend than to advise standard class ticket holders of their right to sit there! Also you have to wait quite a while for it to cycle through a series of different messages before this one appears.

 

[urpert]

I think you'll find it only displays on the PIS in the declassified first class section. I can't remember exactly the words used but it struck me as being phrased more as a warning to first class ticket holders that the rabble may descend than to advise standard class ticket holders of their right to sit there! Also you have to wait quite a while for it to cycle through a series of different messages before this one appears.

It may also be that stops are so frequent on the trains I use that the PIS doesn’t ever get around to displaying that screen!

 

[MML]

Platform screens and announcements also state First class accommodation is at the FRONT of the train. So by inference the rear is declassified.

 

[Kite159]

I think you'll find it only displays on the PIS in the declassified first class section. I can't remember exactly the words used but it struck me as being phrased more as a warning to first class ticket holders that the rabble may descend than to advise standard class ticket holders of their right to sit there! Also you have to wait quite a while for it to cycle through a series of different messages before this one appears.

The message is something like:
"This area may be used by passengers holding standard class tickets"

 

[D365]

Thanks. On both the TL and GN routes?

I don’t think there’s disclassification on the GN routes? That’s at least partially where confusion stems from. Not a concept we’d be familiar with at all.

 

[jamieP]

I don’t think there’s disclassification on the GN routes? That’s at least partially where confusion stems from. Not a concept we’d be familiar with at all.

First class is declassified on the rear off all 700s both TL and GN.

 

[Hadders]

To clarify:

The message declassifying 1st class only shows on the screens in the compartments that are declassified (usually the rear but can be both on certain services). It says 'This area may be used by customers holding standard class tickets'. No declassification message is shown in the standard class area of the train.

The message is one of a number of rotating messages. Others include the destination, next stop, passenger loading information, toilets on the train, TfL information, See it Say it Sorted etc. The declassification message is the last one in the rotation. The rotation doesn't play when the train is waiting in a platform (it just shows the destination and stops). The rotation is also suspended on the approach to a station call and just after departure, again only showing the destination and calling points.

Therefore when the stations are close together, such as in the Core, the declassification message doesn't show. On a train leaving Kings Cross the declassification message shows once, just as the train approaches Finsbury Park, some 3-4 minutes after departure from Kings Cross.

 

[AM9]

To clarify:

The message declassifying 1st class only shows on the screens in the compartments that are declassified (usually the rear but can be both on certain services). It says 'This area may be used by customers holding standard class tickets'. No declassification message is shown in the standard class area of the train.

The message is one of a number of rotating messages. Others include the destination, next stop, passenger loading information, toilets on the train, TfL information, See it Say it Sorted etc. The declassification message is the last one in the rotation. ...

To clarify, the declassification notice (on the original sequence before the 'new' display with the sylised clock), shows when the rest of the train sees the message about security cameras and luggage. I travelled on two newer class 700s yesterday (those with the newer software) and the declassification notice didn't appear on either.

 

[KingJ]

Where else would one expect it to be shown?

Thameslink have regularly tweeted about it. And it was recently highlighted in both the Metro and Evening Standard.

Hardly a secret...

Reading some of the replies to that tweet, and the confusion among the public is quite apparent - especially in this chain. Quite rightly pointing out that mentioning it's declassified "on all our 700" trains would easily be confused by someone to mean on all 700 of our trains (i.e the number of trains TL has) rather than Class 700 trains.

It's probably a bit better now that it's all Class 700s, but still quite a confusing and uncertain situation for the majority of the general public.

 

[Hadders]

I’m currently in a declassified section of a 700.

It’s well loaded, at least two-thirds full. Normals are clearly starting to cotton on.

Mind you it’s standing room only south of Stevenage in standard class. I’ve seen less full trains in the weekday peak!

 

[AM9]

Reading some of the replies to that tweet, and the confusion among the public is quite apparent - especially in this chain. Quite rightly pointing out that mentioning it's declassified "on all our 700" trains would easily be confused by someone to mean on all 700 of our trains (i.e the number of trains TL has) rather than Class 700 trains.

It's probably a bit better now that it's all Class 700s, but still quite a confusing and uncertain situation for the majority of the general public.

Well nobody has to travel in first class. If anybody isn't sure then the best thing is to travel in the same class that their ticket was issued for.

 

[westcoaster]

I’m currently in a declassified section of a 700.

It’s well loaded, at least two-thirds full. Normals are clearly starting to cotton on.

Mind you it’s standing room only south of Stevenage in standard class. I’ve seen less full trains in the weekday peak!

When we bring trains out of the sidings at Bedford in the morning peak, all seats in the declassified area are normally taken before departure. In fact there is a huddle by the doors before they even open.

We set the declassified message up, when entering the pis code.
We can set rear, front or both 1st class areas to be declassified, but only allowed to use the rear code.

 

[Kite159]

I’m currently in a declassified section of a 700.

It’s well loaded, at least two-thirds full. Normals are clearly starting to cotton on.

Mind you it’s standing room only south of Stevenage in standard class. I’ve seen less full trains in the weekday peak!

But at least the fine people of Welwyn North can board a train now, rather than a F&S single 365 rolling in leaving them behind

 

[MML]

The ironing board seats in standard class actually aren't too bad, although the upholstery is starting to wear at little.

It's the insufficient seat pitch on the airline style seats which could do with another 1 inch of legroom. Maybe swop around to give 4 seat bays which appear to offer more room.
And then move the seats 1 inch further away from the window side panel. The aisle is already cluttered by legs and feet anyway.

Knees wedged against the seat in front and feet positioned at an angle to avoid the side-coving are the real discomforts of standard class. Nothing that a small team of golden spanners couldn't rectify overnight over a couple of months I'm sure.

 

[radamfi]

Facing seats on 700 are now unusable given how many feet have been on those seats. Almost every time I board a 700 there is almost always someone with feet on the facing seats.

 

[Kite159]

Facing seats on 700 are now unusable given how many feet have been on those seats. Almost every time I board a 700 there is almost always someone with feet on the facing seats.

Agreed, sadly a fact that some passengers are just filthy who couldn't care less about the next person who might have to sit in the mess their dirty shoes leave when they 'rest' then.

(I can see the bays of 4 on a 345 eventually being removed for a similar reason so those units are all longitudinal)