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Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

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TT-ONR-NRN

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I will bite - the 365s have first class neither of the units replacing them do - although the 700s is better it isn’t a patch on the 365s.

The 700s will be a good thing of course as it will end 4 Car working but no one on the route will be happy to see the 365s go. The 387s are deeply unpopular. I am sure the 700s will have critics at stations where a seat was previously available but isn’t any more.

I can’t verify as fact but since the 387s came on line i understand less people want to renew their 1st season ticket as there is no longer a benefit. I don’t consider the seats that much better on the 700s to justify the premium.

I will be! Happy to see the back of the 365s that is. I hate networkers with a passion.

Oh, and I like 387s! Looking forward to a complete replacement from 365s to 387/700s, and 165/166s to 387s! Not to mention my excitement of seeing the back of the GN 313s.
 
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Hadders

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The 365s are the best of the networker family by a long way and probably one of the best outer suburban units on the network.

And they have a smiley face on the front :D
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Yes definitely best of the networkers but I hate networkers, so if it was me I’d change it to least horrid of the networkers.

The smiley face is freaky...

Best outer suburban units are probably the electrostars. Don’t like 378s though. Oh, and much as I hate to admit a liking to old stock, the 317s.
 

bramling

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Yes definitely best of the networkers but I hate networkers, so if it was me I’d change it to least horrid of the networkers.

The smiley face is freaky...

Best outer suburban units are probably the electrostars. Don’t like 378s though. Oh, and much as I hate to admit a liking to old stock, the 317s.

The problem with the Elsctrostar is that it's not an outer suburban unit. It's a classic builder/ROSCO design - a jack of all trades but master of none. This is why we see the same trains on Southern working London metro services and express workings to distant places on the south coast.

This is also why they're not very good on GN. They have a reduced amount of seating compared to the 365, yet they also have less standing space too.
 

bramling

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The 365s are the best of the networker family by a long way and probably one of the best outer suburban units on the network.

And they have a smiley face on the front :D

I quite like the 465s too, and never understand why many on here seem to hate them - especially now the reliability issues with the ABB units have been largely resolved by retractioning. The 365 generally hasn't had to contend with the vandalism of inner south-east London of course, and their original interior was nicer especially with the subdued 1990s colours instead of garish blue.
 

Skimble19

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I will be! Happy to see the back of the 365s that is. I hate networkers with a passion.

Oh, and I like 387s! Looking forward to a complete replacement from 365s to 387/700s, and 165/166s to 387s! Not to mention my excitement of seeing the back of the GN 313s.
I take it you never actually travel with us then?! :lol::lol: Can't imagine many of our pax (or staff!) agreeing with you to be honest!
 

Failed Unit

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Maybe not about the 365s, but I can't imagine anyone's going to miss the 313s...
Mixed emotions. The workhorse for most of my life and fairly decent trains. Comfortable etc.

But they are showing their age and just can’t cope with today’s demand. 2 less cabs will be welcome.

The new trains have a hard act to follow.
 

ScotGG

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Vandalism in SE London of Networkers has pretty much been a myth for at least 10 years. It's no different to other areas. The reason they are so tatty is little to no refurbishment work for 25 years.
 

samuelmorris

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This is off-topic but I think cleaning has something to do with it. The TfL 315s are a lot older still and smell a little bit musty sometimes but because they've been refreshed a few times and are reasonably looked after they feel relatively clean. 465s always seem to stink of urine (and not toilet greywater smell like lots of trains near the toilet, actual urine) and just feel really grubby, even the ones that have been supposedly refreshed, though I can't say I notice much difference.

The 700s are also appallingly looked after, the first introduced /1 units look very shabby on the outside from the months of grime buildup, you can actually tell roughly what unit it is turning up by how clean it is. A clean unit means it must be almost brand new as it hasn't had a chance to get dirty yet. The inside is much the same, Monday AM peak services running around with party debris, balloons etc littering the place, presumably from the day before. If you aren't going to clean the floors at least litterpick the units... The 700s may not be well liked but it's still depressing to see trains less than a year old look as if they have never been cleaned since they were delivered.
 

ComUtoR

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If only people would use the bins. Leave it how you would expect to find it and they wouldn't look like trash.
 

SAPhil

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One of the design issues with these trains is that the bins are quite small, not as many of them and also people tend to stand in front of them blocking access to them.
 

F Great Eastern

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One of the design issues with these trains is that the bins are quite small, not as many of them and also people tend to stand in front of them blocking access to them.

Unfortunately that is what the DFT decided, spec issue.
 

tsr

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If people think the TL 700s are bad, they are shining examples compared to how FCC kept their 319s. They were probably the filthiest trains on the network by a long, long way.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Mixed emotions. The workhorse for most of my life and fairly decent trains. Comfortable etc.

But they are showing their age and just can’t cope with today’s demand. 2 less cabs will be welcome.

The new trains have a hard act to follow.

Comfortable? Comfortable? How can you call any train with that interior layout comfortable?
 

Failed Unit

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Comfortable? Comfortable? How can you call any train with that interior layout comfortable?

Very easily considering I use them everyday (something you don’t). The seat and ride are very nice. But I best not distract a thread on 700s any further.

Back to the topic, reading about the Cambridge news article earlier in the thread. I thought come May 2018 some services would be going through the core by then and most services that are to be 700 operated will be (even if they still go into kings cross) am I getting my dates incorrect?
 

theblackwatch

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Please remember this thread is for Class 700 discussion. I have deleted the three most recent posts on 313/315 seating.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I look forward to the introduction of 717s that will replace them. I wonder if they will look identical to the 700s externally and internally (apart from the front gangway)

Do 700s do every single TL service now then?
 

samuelmorris

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Yes TL (in its original guise, not any of the expanded routes yet) is fully 700-operated now. I'll wait and see on the 717s, hopefully an opportunity to 'adjust' some of the less popular parts of the 700 spec...
 

F Great Eastern

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Yes TL (in its original guise, not any of the expanded routes yet) is fully 700-operated now. I'll wait and see on the 717s, hopefully an opportunity to 'adjust' some of the less popular parts of the 700 spec...
Do TL have much more control over the spec of the 717s?
 

samuelmorris

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I'm not sure, but as far as I knew they weren't subject to the same 'minimise dwells, minimise comfort' TL core requirement. Perhaps I'm wrong about that. No doubt they'll be simpler as that's just easier, but how similar I'm not sure.
 

fusionblue

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I got on a 700 again this week, and this time i was under the screens. I noticed that it loops through the station calls three times then shows tube information then shows the train loading indicator.

The problem is that on stations closer together (basically the entire sevenoaks run and most of the wimbledon loop) they simply don't have enough time to complete that entire set and then the train announces "we will shortly be arriving at x", changes the feed to display that, then when the doors open the cycle starts all over again. The train went from Ravensbourne all the way to nearly Elephant before the screens showed the loading indicator (which was kinda moot by that point, because it was full and standing and i couldnt move!).
 

ComUtoR

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The train went from Ravensbourne all the way to nearly Elephant before the screens showed the loading indicator (which was kinda moot by that point, because it was full and standing and i couldnt move!).

If the loading indicator did display a less crowded carriage, would you have walked through the rest of the crowded carriage to find more space or would you simply looked at the pretty picture and stayed where you were ?
 

fusionblue

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If the loading indicator did display a less crowded carriage, would you have walked through the rest of the crowded carriage to find more space or would you simply looked at the pretty picture and stayed where you were ?

I would have walked if it said so sooner, but given that it was AM peak "more space" wasn't very likely no matter where i went.
 

bramling

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I would have walked if it said so sooner, but given that it was AM peak "more space" wasn't very likely no matter where i went.

This is why these sorts of features are a bit of a waste of money.

At the busiest times, commuters generally know where on the train is likely to have the most space. For many the priority is being at the right place for the exit, no matter what.

At other times, it doesn't really matter. If people are too daft to work out that it's not compulsory to all pile on in one place then it's their loss.
 

ComUtoR

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Cheers for the reply.

I have noticed some small changes in passenger behaviour but not so much with the information boards. If there was a loading indicator on the outside then maybe it would be of use but I find that passengers are still heavily biassed towards their exits. I've started to watch the door opening on services and you can almost predict what doors will open according to the station. Loading screens are great but it doesn't appear to be encouraging people to walk through to a lesser loaded carriage.

During the peak you know its going to be busy regardless of where you stand so they are indeed a little moot. Off peak the trains are a ghost town anyway. Loading isn't much of an issue so its again, almost superfluous information.

The one good thing is knowing which toilet is available.
 

jon0844

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Cheers for the reply.

I have noticed some small changes in passenger behaviour but not so much with the information boards. If there was a loading indicator on the outside then maybe it would be of use but I find that passengers are still heavily biassed towards their exits. I've started to watch the door opening on services and you can almost predict what doors will open according to the station. Loading screens are great but it doesn't appear to be encouraging people to walk through to a lesser loaded carriage.

During the peak you know its going to be busy regardless of where you stand so they are indeed a little moot. Off peak the trains are a ghost town anyway. Loading isn't much of an issue so its again, almost superfluous information.

The one good thing is knowing which toilet is available.

I did think the snazzy new platform screens were supposed to be able to show loading info so you could stand in the right place. But until they can get the 700s to communicate properly (so as not to show TfL status from 4 hours before) then there would be no way for the train to tell the platform, and of course you then have to work out a way to relay that information in a way passengers can understand.

I do think that for the most part, the information isn't of much use on the train EXCEPT that it may show regulars the times/places when other parts of the train are less full and encourage them to go somewhere else the NEXT time they travel.
 
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