Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[redbutton]

Why do the 700s announce the next stations so early?

"We will shortly be arriving at Denmark Hill"... while the train hasn't even taken the curve outside Loughborough Junction.

"We will shortly be arriving at Nunhead".. and the train is still accelerating up the slope from Peckham Rye

If it's intentional, I suspect it could be to get people to the doors and ready to alight immediately upon arrival, which should reduce dwell times.

 

[Julia]

Spotted this for the early hours of tomorrow morning, using the Canal tunnels - a 700 test run for GN?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N03002/2017/09/15/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N02505/2017/09/15/advanced

 

[spark001uk]

When Blackfriars jn goes into service, is the plan to have the BML TL go round LBG way, or stay on the route they are? I'd imagine the former is less congested, but thought I'd ask.

 

[jopsuk]

the only TL services that won't go via London Bridge once the work there is finished will be the Sutton Loop; when Blackfriars station was remodelled the idea was that Sutton Loop services would all terminate there and all TL services would go via London Bridge.

 

[Roast Veg]

The timetable consultation from July suggests that all BML services will go via LBG as well as Rainham and Maidstone services, with E&C seeing only Sutton loop, Orpington, and Sevenoaks services.

 

[Kite159]

When Blackfriars jn goes into service, is the plan to have the BML TL go round LBG way, or stay on the route they are? I'd imagine the former is less congested, but thought I'd ask.

The Brighton/Three Bridges services will go back to running via London Bridge and the south London crawl will cease

 

[Bald Rick]

the only TL services that won't go via London Bridge once the work there is finished will be the Sutton Loop; when Blackfriars station was remodelled the idea was that Sutton Loop services would all terminate there and all TL services would go via London Bridge.

Absolutely not the case.

The plan (up until around 2012) was for Sutton loop services to go to the Blackfriars bays, along with the Southeastern peak extras that run into Blackfriars via Herne Hill.

Thameslink core services would operate either via London Bridge (16 or 18tph), or via Denmark Hill (8 or 6).

 

[Bald Rick]

The Brighton/Three Bridges services will go back to running via London Bridge and the south London crawl will cease

There will still be a south London crawl from January to May; just a different part of south London. The journey time between Blackfriars and Croydon doesn't change until May.

 

[Peter Sarf]

When Blackfriars jn goes into service, is the plan to have the BML TL go round LBG way, or stay on the route they are? I'd imagine the former is less congested, but thought I'd ask.

I think that is the whole point of the London Bridge rebuilding/remodelling works including the Bermondsey Dive under - a massive amount of work covering two plus years. That is to allow better routing of trains *through* London Bridge rather than ones terminating at London Bridge - which will reduce aiui. Note that most/all of the extra through trains will be Thameslink.

The current (temporary) route to East Croydon is rather slow but might still be used for diversions - that is once the services revert back to their normal route via London Bridge once all the work is finished. Other than that the only Thameslink services remaining on the route past Elephant and Castle will be the Sutton-Wimbledon loop - which were not originally meant to go North of Blackfriars. Maybe some of the extra South Eastern destinations will be served by the route that turns off South of Elephant and Castle at Loughboro Junction (I just cannot recall which) but many/most (iirc) will go via London Bridge and the Bermondsey dive under.

EDIT - some of the above posts explain it all. I got beaten to it. Also for the first time in my experience the forum server could not cope !.

 

[yorkie]

What routes do the 700s operate out of Victoria? Are they on lease to Southern?

They are on lease to Govia Thameslink Railway, which is the name of the train company operating the Thameslink Southern & Great Northern franchise.

Ah okay! I figured they should be easy to transfer between GN, Southern, GatX, since they are all under 1 parent! It would be good if they came down to Portsmouth one day!

I don't know what "1 parent" means (I think you may be confused; it's all one train company but GTR will operate these trains on appropriate routes as per their franchise commitments. Please let's keep on topic and not make this a fantasy thread. Thanks

Could be DDA compliance?- someone with reduced or limited mobility may need longer to get to a door.

Yes it could be for accessibility reasons (DDA isn't current legislation though) but if it's much earlier than other trains it's more likely to be an error.

 

[jon0844]

Spotted this for the early hours of tomorrow morning, using the Canal tunnels - a 700 test run for GN?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N03002/2017/09/15/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N02505/2017/09/15/advanced

It was. Showed Brighton as the destination for some reason.

 

[Minstral25]

There will still be a south London crawl from January to May; just a different part of south London. The journey time between Blackfriars and Croydon doesn't change until May.

It won't be a crawl just a long sit at London Bridge out of the way of other services. Timetables are not changing from Bedford to Blackfriars or East Croydon going South, so the trains will have to sit somewhere in between and that will be London Bridge platforms.

 

[Bald Rick]

It won't be a crawl just a long sit at London Bridge out of the way of other services. Timetables are not changing from Bedford to Blackfriars or East Croydon going South, so the trains will have to sit somewhere in between and that will be London Bridge platforms.

Not necessarily. Some of the trains have a wodge of pathing time between East Croydon and London Bridge, and again approaching Blackfriars. It is quite possible that they spend time waiting near Norwood Jn, New X Gate and Blackfriars Junction. But generally it will be London Bridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

Other than that the only Thameslink services remaining on the route past Elephant and Castle will be the Sutton-Wimbledon loop - which were not originally meant to go North of Blackfriars.

Just to confirm, as Bald Rick has already, it has never been the case that there'd be no through trains via Elephant and Castle. There has always been an intention of either 6 or 8 through trains to the core via Elephant. You are quite right that early plans didn't include the Sutton - Wimbledon, but as an earlier example from the 2011 London and SE RUS, at that time there were to have been 6 tph through services via Catford and Elephant, originating (2 tph each) from Maidstone East, Sevenoaks and Bellingham.

Then because of the Wimbledon loop re-instatement, that number via Catford has varied up and down however it is currently 4 tph via Catford, 2 tph each from Sevenoaks and Orpington.

 

[Minstral25]

Not necessarily. Some of the trains have a wodge of pathing time between East Croydon and London Bridge, and again approaching Blackfriars. It is quite possible that they spend time waiting near Norwood Jn, New X Gate and Blackfriars Junction. But generally it will be London Bridge.

Hope they don't get too much at Norwood Jn or New Cross Gate as they will be blocking paths of other trains whilst standing there (other than waiting for their own paths to clear of course).

I can see them having waiting time anywhere on the section from Bermondsey to Blackfriars Junction including London Bridge where they won't be on lines where other trains run.

 

[spark001uk]

There will still be a south London crawl from January to May; just a different part of south London. The journey time between Blackfriars and Croydon doesn't change until May.

So what are we looking at that 25-30min section coming down to post-May then? The current crawl I find quite relaxing IMO (if travelling for leisure), though some may disagree!

 

[swt_passenger]

About 18 - 20 mins according to the published (December) timetables provided with one of the consultations.

 

[samuelmorris]

6-7 mins from Blackfriars to London Bridge and 14-16 mins from London Bridge to East Croydon so 20-22 in practice (20 for Brighton services, 22 for Horsham, 23 for Gatwick slow services)

 

[Minstral25]

Opentraintimes shows them waiting at the signal before Blackfriars or Blackfriars Junction for 5-8 minutes. They also show London Bridge as non-stop?

Seems a waste from January to May to have the trains passing through London Bridge but not stopping at such a key station.

 

[swt_passenger]

Opentraintimes shows them waiting at the signal before Blackfriars or Blackfriars Junction for 5-8 minutes. They also show London Bridge as non-stop?

Seems a waste from January to May to have the trains passing through London Bridge but not stopping at such a key station.

It's been confirmed here before that London Bridge Thameslink platforms are expected to be in normal use in January.

Perhaps the Opentraintimes source data may not yet allow for the possibility of a call as the platforms are not finished.

 

[Gareth4949]

When will the current Brighton to London Bridge services get extended into the Core will this be Jan or May 2018 ?

 

[Minstral25]

It's been confirmed here before that London Bridge Thameslink platforms are expected to be in normal use in January.

Perhaps the Opentraintimes source data may not yet allow for the possibility of a call as the platforms are not finished.

I haven't seen from an official source that Thameslink trains will call but it has been strongly suggested by wording used.

Possibly true - but OTT also still have the services going via Herne Hill presumably just in case (every service duplicated). So perhaps a decision hasn't been made until they are sure the work is complete.

 

[westcoaster]

I haven't seen from an official source that Thameslink trains will call but it has been strongly suggested by wording used.

Possibly true - but OTT also still have the services going via Herne Hill presumably just in case (every service duplicated). So perhaps a decision hasn't been made until they are sure the work is complete.

Could just be for driver route availability.

 

[spark001uk]

About 18 - 20 mins according to the published (December) timetables provided with one of the consultations.

That's not too bad then. When I'm on a travelcard (Z1-6) I sometimes like to take the longest trip between two stns, and I believe this is still it currently. Think the next closest is LBG-ORP at about 16mins, with WAT-SUR close behind.

 

[bengley]

I believe the plan is for all trains to continue to go via Crystal Palace until May 2018

UNLESS

The driver for the service has the route knowledge and ATO training which allows the train to go via London Bridge.

This would explain the mirrored services on OpenTrainTimes but with different headcodes.

ATO/London Bridge training has not yet started and there is no sign it's going to start any time soon in my opinion.

 

[spark001uk]

I'm sure it'll all slot in as time goes on. How's ATO through the core progressing now?

 

[Bald Rick]

I believe the plan is for all trains to continue to go via Crystal Palace until May 2018

UNLESS

The driver for the service has the route knowledge and ATO training which allows the train to go via London Bridge.

This would explain the mirrored services on OpenTrainTimes but with different headcodes.

ATO/London Bridge training has not yet started and there is no sign it's going to start any time soon in my opinion.

I believe the plan is for all services to go via London Bridge, unless the driver doesn't sign it and / or the route is not available for any reason. Simply because it is about 6 minutes quicker and can recover minor delays.

ATO won't be live in service in January.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm sure it'll all slot in as time goes on. How's ATO through the core progressing now?

I gather testing has been going well, and in schedule.

Related to this, I saw an ETCS marker board at Farringdon over the weekend - these were installed a while ago but covered. This one was uncovered though, which one assumes means it is commissioned.

 

[urpert]

I gather testing has been going well, and in schedule.

Related to this, I saw an ETCS marker board at Farringdon over the weekend - these were installed a while ago but covered. This one was uncovered though, which one assumes means it is commissioned.

I’m not sure - it may just mean the black bin bag has blown off. There’s been one visible on the southern approaches to Blackfriars for months now.

 

[bengley]

I’m not sure - it may just mean the black bin bag has blown off. There’s been one visible on the southern approaches to Blackfriars for months now.

They've been uncovering them and installing new ones gradually every time there is a shutdown in the core. The recent weekend closure saw quite a few new boards go in.