Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Roast Veg]

I would imagine the stop boards have been accurate since day one, especially as they're using FLU and RLU boards instead of car numbers...

 

[Abpj17]

Another return trip to Farringdon today, no issues. I've probably had about 50 journeys on class 700s without a single failure. The nearest I got to one was on 700109, the first train to run through the core with fare-paying passengers. That train was stuck at either City Thameslink or St Pancras (I can't remember exactly) for nearly 10 minutes because the driver hadn't lined up exactly by the stop marker and the doors wouldn't open. Not bad for it's first day. Even the PIS displays seem to work all thie time now.
I note that some of the comments here like "(yet) another class 700 sits down today" are often wrongly attributed as the fault of the train, - sometimes it is a 319 or even Electrostar, but the blame goes on the class 700. When the actual situation is discovered by somebody with access to the official record, there's no comment from the original RUK 'reporter'.

There are still issues with the 700 (arguably less so than with the older stock). Failures are regular - even ignoring incorrectly attributed.

http://recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Service?ServiceId=42312788 is one such example. Emergency brake came on as leaving West H. Most of the carriages were still at the platform. Train moved onto to Kentish Town where train was taken out of service so it didn't go into the core.

(I've not spotted where the link evidences it's a 700 - but 99% sure it was. Tbf, if it was anything else, the announcement would have been impossible to hear!)

 

[JonathanH]

Anyone know when the 700s will enter service on the London Bridge thameslink off peak services and will this be gradual or change all in one go , 4 coachs on off peak Brighton trains is not sufficient

Also will the peak London Bridge to Brighton and Littlehamptons also change at the same time

At a guess off peak London Bridge to Brighton services aren't too far away now - quite a few new 700/1s about now testing.

A look at RTT suggests pretty much self contained diagrams which don't necessarily do much in the peaks and don't at first involve anywhere else.

I reckon the following but not for a few weeks yet:

5W08 07+10 Brighton Down Siding to Brighton 07+20
1B08 0732 Brighton to London Bridge 0848
1B13 0911 London Bridge to Brighton 1014
1B20 1032 Brighton to London Bridge 1135
1B23 1142 London Bridge to Brighton 1242
1B30 1302 Brighton to London Bridge 1405
1B33 1412 London Bridge to Brighton 1512
1B40 1532 Brighton to London Bridge 1635
1B43 1642 London Bridge to Brighton 1751
1B50 1802 Brighton to London Bridge 1905
1B71 1912 London Bridge to Brighton 2016
5B71 20+36 Brighton to Preston Park Sidings 20+42

5B16 09+17 Preston Park Sidings to Brighton 09+24
1B16 0932 Brighton to London Bridge 1035
1B19 1042 London Bridge to Brighton 1142
1B26 1202 Brighton to London Bridge 1305
1B29 1312 London Bridge to Brighton 1412
1B36 1432 Brighton to London Bridge 1535
1B39 1542 London Bridge to Brighton 1642
5B39 1655 Brighton to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot 1734

5B14 0810 3bdgs Down Thameslink Sdgs to Brighton 0845
1B14 0902 Brighton to London Bridge 1005
1B17 1012 London Bridge to Brighton 1112
1B24 1132 Brighton to London Bridge 1235
1B27 1242 London Bridge to Brighton 1342
1B34 1402 Brighton to London Bridge 1505
1B37 1512 London Bridge to Brighton 1612
1B44 1642 Brighton to London Bridge 1750
1B47 1757 London Bridge to Brighton 1908
5B47 1924 Brighton to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot 2004

5B17 08+53 3bdgs Down Thameslink Sdgs to Brighton Reception Road 09+24
5B18 0940 Brighton Reception Road to Brighton 0945
1B18 1002 Brighton to London Bridge 1105
1B21 1112 London Bridge to Brighton 1212
1B28 1232 Brighton to London Bridge 1335
1B31 1342 London Bridge to Brighton 1442
1B38 1502 Brighton to London Bridge 1605
1B41 1612 London Bridge to Brighton 1716
1B48 1732 Brighton to London Bridge 1836
1B51 1843 London Bridge to Brighton 1946
5W51 20+06 Brighton to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot 20+46

The existing TB501 loses its break in the middle of the day and gets a different one later on.

5Y91 0214 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford 02+30
2W91 0240 Bedford to Brighton 0537
1B00 0547 Brighton to London Bridge 0703
1B05 0712 London Bridge to Brighton 0817
1B10 0827 Brighton to London Bridge 0935
1B15 0942 London Bridge to Brighton 1042
1B22 1102 Brighton to London Bridge 1205
1B25 1212 London Bridge to Brighton 1313
1B32 1332 Brighton to London Bridge 1435
1B35 1442 London Bridge to Brighton 1542
5B35 16+05 Brighton to Brighton Down Siding 16+18
5B80 18+12 Brighton Down Siding to Brighton 18+22
1B80 1832 Brighton to London Bridge 1935
1B73 1942 London Bridge to Brighton 2045
5B73 21+02 Brighton to Brighton Down Siding 21+39

There are two balancing workings from the Down Sidings to the Up Sidings via Gatwick Airport

5W52 2102 Three Bridges Tl Up Depot to 3bdgs Down Thameslink Sdgs 2136
5B52 2134 Three Bridges Tl Up Depot to 3bdgs Down Thameslink Sdgs 2207

and the Bedford starter / Three Bridges finish already balances out through the other workings.

 

[samuelmorris]

I note that some of the comments here like "(yet) another class 700 sits down today" are often wrongly attributed as the fault of the train, - sometimes it is a 319 or even Electrostar, but the blame goes on the class 700. When the actual situation is discovered by somebody with access to the official record, there's no comment from the original RUK 'reporter'.

Not all of them - I edited my post in this regard to update with corrected information. I also agree, I've been delayed by issues with 319s and 377s more than 700s, it's only the PIS issues that affect/annoy me, though they are slowly improving in that regard. Although I almost exclusively only use the core between Blackfriars and St Pancras, my average delay on Thameslink for the year is only 2.5 minutes, the same as the surface lines on the underground, and lower than Greater Anglia at a little over 4 minutes.

 

[AM9]

Not all of them - I edited my post in this regard to update with corrected information. I also agree, I've been delayed by issues with 319s and 377s more than 700s, it's only the PIS issues that affect/annoy me, though they are slowly improving in that regard. Although I almost exclusively only use the core between Blackfriars and St Pancras, my average delay on Thameslink for the year is only 2.5 minutes, the same as the surface lines on the underground, and lower than Greater Anglia at a little over 4 minutes.

Well, from next week, all diagrams should be operated by class 700s so at least there won't be attributions to the wrong stock, except maybe between East Croydon and Blackfriars which is going to be a lottery until the link down to London Bridge is back in use. Now it is just the infrastructure, (particularly the core) vs. the trains in terms of actual breakdowns, except of course the biggest variable of all, the passengers. I can see the core stations gaining a few more assertive platform staff if passenger behaviour starts to jeopardise the 150 second frequency service when it starts in the core.

 

[samuelmorris]

Although once again it only delayed me by 2-3 minutes tops, there was some fairly major disruption this morning due to a service being failed at Blackfriars for a safety systems issue, was this a 700? It's timed for a 319 in RTT so I'm assuming it will be by now.
The PIS was also completely disabled on the unit I was on this morning (stuck on 'please stand clear of the doors' message) and the driver's microphone wasn't working properly. Something I also noticed - there's what must be a recently printed poster, as it has the current TL logo on it, advertising 15 minute delay repay, with the old pound coin on it - would they not have known not to do that by the time this poster was made?

 

[colinbloom]

Yesterday the 1735 Brighton to Bedford made it as far as Haywards Heath before a passanger pulled the chord due to intense heat. Engineers had to be called to get the A/C going and the train left 50 minutes late. What are these trains going to be like in 10 year time when all the A/C units are knackered and tripping out as soon as the weather gets warm? The 387's have one locked hopper window in each carriage presumably for emergency ventilation should the train get stuck in the sun with traction current off. My question is, what happens in this event on a 700 with absolutely no openable windows? Is it going to be left to the passangers to smash windows?

 

[MCR247]

The 387's have one locked hopper window in each carriage presumably for emergency ventilation should the train get stuck in the sun with traction current off. My question is, what happens in this event on a 700 with absolutely no openable windows? Is it going to be left to the passangers to smash windows?

If a loaded train gets stranded in the sun without power I think you're going to need a bit more than one hopper window to even try and keep people onboard

 

[bramling]

I can see the core stations gaining a few more assertive platform staff if passenger behaviour starts to jeopardise the 150 second frequency service when it starts in the core.

Good luck with that one. Whilst there are things which can be done to encourage passengers to comply, experience shows that how successful this ends up being depends on whether the passenger feels that compliance will harm his or her chance of securing a seat, especially if the journey is reasonably long.

Reality is someone going to destination X is going to potentially arrive on the platform early and wait in the spot where they know their preferred door will stop. Move to let others past and this person now risks not being first on, or the mortal sin of later arrivals jumping the unwritten 'queue'. This already happens very heavily at many GN stations in the morning peak - Hitchin perhaps being the most noticeable. The self-same individuals will be travelling home too. I just can't see this behaviour changing - some people will always value a seat whilst others will take it a stage further and value a particular type of seat. Five separate northbound flows just isn't going to mix well.

And just to make it all worse, don't forget the effect of Thameslink's built-in inherent unreliability, where there will be crowds of people waiting for delayed services. So as well as crowds of people you will also have crowds of hacked-off people, who simply aren't going to step back and let others jump the 'queue'.

 

[tsr]

At present, there is a Class 700 sat at Farringdon which has been declared a failure because it cannot raise the pantograph.

This follows hot on the heels of another unit failing twice on the south BML - once going northbound at Wivelsfield, causing major disruption, and having to be run back to Brighton because the brakes would not release from the London end cab. It was then cleared by fitters to run ECS from Brighton to Three Bridges depot, but it only got as far as Balcombe before the same issue occurred, trapping another passenger service outside a station for some time...

In other news, this morning's failure in the Blackfriars area was a 700.

 

[asylumxl]

Yesterday the 1735 Brighton to Bedford made it as far as Haywards Heath before a passanger pulled the chord due to intense heat. Engineers had to be called to get the A/C going and the train left 50 minutes late. What are these trains going to be like in 10 year time when all the A/C units are knackered and tripping out as soon as the weather gets warm? The 387's have one locked hopper window in each carriage presumably for emergency ventilation should the train get stuck in the sun with traction current off. My question is, what happens in this event on a 700 with absolutely no openable windows? Is it going to be left to the passangers to smash windows?

This is a valid concern in my opinion.

I've found the AC on the 700s to be rather lack luster, particularly compared to the Electrostar family and other members of the Desiro family. It seems to be sufficient when the train is lightly loaded, but in my experience it can get very uncomfortable during a busy peak time journey.

I wonder how the AC units on the 700s compare specification wise to other units. Are they smaller and less potent in order to reduce weight? Or are they a similar size but underpowered to reduce energy consumption?

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[fusionblue]

I've been on only three 700s and 2 out of 3 times the screens simply say something like "safety notices above doors in all carriages". I'm not sure of the exact wording.

I'm assuming it shows this because the more advanced features are simply turned off?

Coincidentally, on the same trip yesterday the driver announced that the first carriage AC was "not working" and that passengers should sit in carriages 2-8.

 

[physics34]

Looks like another unit failure. Imagine 24 tph loooooool

 

[jon0844]

Looks like another unit failure. Imagine 24 tph loooooool

You mean 24fph (failed per hour) ?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Looks like another unit failure. Imagine 24 tph loooooool

These trains are still being introduced. While the Thameslink Programme is *very* optimistic, once these units settle in I'm sure they will be more reliable.

 

[ComUtoR]

These trains are still being introduced. While the Thameslink Programme is *very* optimistic, once these units settle in I'm sure they will be more reliable.

These units are not 'being introduced' they HAVE BEEN introduced. They have been run in for a number of 'fault free' running and these faults are happing with units that have had plenty of mileage added in service. Seriously, how long is 'settled in' how many miles is 'settled' This excuse has work thin for a while now.

Coincidentally, on the same trip yesterday the driver announced that the first carriage AC was "not working" and that passengers should sit in carriages 2-8.

One of the 'faults' that looks to be a consistent fault with these units directly affects the HVAC in a single coach.

This is a valid concern in my opinion.

I share this concern, from a different perspective. I was sitting outside Blackfriars awaiting the failed unit sitting on the platform this morning. I was heaving and in normal circumstances I would switch off the heating or turn up the AC to reduce the uncomfortable heat standing in a packed train generates.

We have been instructed not to adjust the temperature

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit going through this evening with the service still struggling to recover makes me think god help us next year.

I would have a direct train from Blackfriars to WGC. But the congestion on the platforms will be a nightmare.

The train I was on was not due to stop at Luton Airport Parkway. Monitors at Blackfriars said it was. The train didn't. Poor passengers for the airport didn't have a clue. I advised some to get on and if it didn't get off at St Albans, at least they are closer. I know this issue has already got discussed on this thread. But if the PIS is wrong turn it off.

 

[AM9]

Looks like another unit failure. Imagine 24 tph loooooool

Just what is "loooooool"?

 

[EonLeader]

Interesting to see the 377s will go next week. I note that because the 0842 Beckenham Junction to Bedford, previously a 700, appears to be two 377s instead. Well, it's meant to be two. Today it was just one. Yes, it was short formed. Which is why I couldn't get on it.

At least we know why the other half broke down. Because Thameslink are carting it off next week.

 

[D7666]

Just what is "loooooool"?

digital representation of thameslink performance

i.e. a series of 1's and 0's representing marks and spaces

the mark is where a train appeared, the 0 is where a train should have appeared in the thameslink core but did not

--
Nick

 

[bengley]

As I previously mentioned a couple of weeks ago, all Thameslink services including the current Southern 377 BTN-LBG trains will be operated by class 700s by 10th September.

A 700 was also taken out of service at Wimbledon today due to a lack of air conditioning

 

[AM9]

digital representation of thameslink performance

i.e. a series of 1's and 0's representing marks and spaces

the mark is where a train appeared, the 0 is where a train should have appeared in the thameslink core but did not

--
Nick

Ah, so it's meant to be 100000001.
If that's what was meant, it would be better if the poster could tell the difference between letters and numbers.

 

[asylumxl]

Ah, so it's meant to be 100000001.
If that's what was meant, it would be better if the poster could tell the difference between letters and numbers.

It'd also be 257 if it were binary.

Either way, it seems some posters are far more light hearted about 700 issues.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[absolutelymilk]

Ah, so it's meant to be 100000001.
If that's what was meant, it would be better if the poster could tell the difference between letters and numbers.

For the older (wiser?) members of the forum, lol (or LOL) stands for laugh out loud.

Is there a timescale on when the final 700s will be delivered?

 

[387star]

As I previously mentioned a couple of weeks ago, all Thameslink services including the current Southern 377 BTN-LBG trains will be operated by class 700s by 10th September.

A 700 was also taken out of service at Wimbledon today due to a lack of air conditioning

Plenty of surplus 377s...

hopefully the end is nigh for the 313 but given their refresh to fit new door sounders push buttons door handles etc maybe the coastway will be lumbered with them for some time yet

Perfect for hove to brighton and bognor to littlehampton mind

 

[Failed Unit]

For the older (wiser?) members of the forum, lol (or LOL) stands for laugh out loud.

Is there a timescale on when the final 700s will be delivered?

Christmas (doesn't mention year)

 

[D7666]

It'd also be 257 if it were binary.

Either way, it seems some posters are far more light hearted about 700 issues.

Or 101 if it were HEX (nothing to do with 332s).

Room 101?


I've been commuting on Thameslink for 30 years. I'd be dead from stress if I ever took any of it seriously.


23 min late Up this morning after 2 consecutive cancelled and one late runner skipping stops.

41 min late Down this evening after 3 consecutive cancelled, one skipping, one too jammed full to get on.


And that was just Luton / WHP.

2 Delay Repays claims.

All is normal on Thameslink then.


--
Nick

 

[macaronlover]

 

[Failed Unit]

Or 101 if it were HEX (nothing to do with 332s).

Room 101?


I've been commuting on Thameslink for 30 years. I'd be dead from stress if I ever took any of it seriously.


23 min late Up this morning after 2 consecutive cancelled and one late runner skipping stops.

41 min late Down this evening after 3 consecutive cancelled, one skipping, one too jammed full to get on.


And that was just Luton / WHP.

2 Delay Repays claims.

All is normal on Thameslink then.


--
Nick

How do you get on with claiming delay - Repay. I have got sick of the hassle trying so don't bother any more.

The whole process of. Claim - reject - appeal - reject - appeal to travel watch - get paid is too tedious for what little money you get back.

I guess their system works, offer it, make it too painful to bother claim then GTR are winners. (But that is another thread)

 

[J-2739]

Is that left screen actually for real? It looks pretty gross.